Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Can you actually name some of these "redeeming qualities" of the bible? And they have to be exclusive or original to the bible. Universal no-brainers like "don't kill. don't steal" don't count.
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LeftyLen
Active Member
Well for one thing, transcended values.
Here are 10 of those values.
No. 1: There is one God. That God is the God introduced to the world by the Hebrew Bible — the source of one universal morality.
No. 2: The Hebrew Bible (the only Bible Jesus knew and which he frequently cited) introduced the most revolutionary moral idea in history: that there are objective moral truths just as there are mathematical and scientific truths. Without God as the source of moral standards, there is no moral truth; there are only moral opinions.
No. 3: Because there are moral truths, good and evil are the same for all people.
No. 4: God — not man, not government, not popular opinion, not a democratic vote — is the source of our rights. All men “are endowed (SET ITAL) by their Creator (END ITAL) with certain unalienable Rights,” declares the American Declaration of Independence.
No. 5: The human being is “created in the image of God.” Therefore, each human life is precious. Therefore, race is of no significance since we are all created in God’s image, and God has no race.
No. 6: The world is based on a divine order, meaning divinely ordained distinctions. Among these divine distinctions are God and man, man and woman, human and animal, good and evil, nature and God, and the holy and the profane.
No. 7: Man is not basically good. Christians speak of “original sin” in referring to man’s sinful nature; Jews cite God Himself in Genesis: “The will of man’s heart is evil from his youth” (Genesis 8:21). They are not identical beliefs, but they are both worlds apart from the naive Enlightenment belief that man is basically good. And they come to the same conclusion: we need God-based rules to keep us from our natural inclination to do evil.
No. 8: Therefore, we must not follow our hearts. Both religious Jews and Christians are keenly aware of how morally dangerous it is to be led by our emotions. Those who reject Judeo-Christian values are far more likely to follow and promote the advice, “Follow your heart.”
No. 9: God gave us the Ten Commandments — the core of Judeo-Christian values. Therefore, to apply but one of the Ten Commandments to our morally confused secular age, you must “Honor your father and mother” even if they voted for someone you loathe — meaning, at the least, remain in contact with them and do not dare deprive them of the right to be in contact with their grandchildren.
No. 10: Human beings have free will. In the secular world, there is no free will because all human behavior is attributed to biology and environment. Only a religious worldview, because it posits the existence of a divine soul — something independent of biology and environment — allows for free will.
There is another important aspect to the term “Judeo-Christian.” The two religions need each other. Without the Old Testament, there is no New Testament. Virtually every Christian moral principle derives from the Hebrew Bible — not only the 10 Judeo-Christian values enumerated here, but such basic moral principles as “Love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18), “Love the Lord your God with all your heart …” (Deuteronomy 6:5), and “Love the stranger” (Deuteronomy 10:19).
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LeftyLen
Active Member
Lets see 'crap ' like' transcendent values ,
Here are 10 of those values
Here are 10 of those values.
No. 1: There is one God. That God is the God introduced to the world by the Hebrew Bible — the source of one universal morality.
No. 2: The Hebrew Bible (the only Bible Jesus knew and which he frequently cited) introduced the most revolutionary moral idea in history: that there are objective moral truths just as there are mathematical and scientific truths. Without God as the source of moral standards, there is no moral truth; there are only moral opinions.
No. 3: Because there are moral truths, good and evil are the same for all people.
No. 4: God — not man, not government, not popular opinion, not a democratic vote — is the source of our rights. All men “are endowed (SET ITAL) by their Creator (END ITAL) with certain unalienable Rights,” declares the American Declaration of Independence.
No. 5: The human being is “created in the image of God.” Therefore, each human life is precious. Therefore, race is of no significance since we are all created in God’s image, and God has no race.
No. 6: The world is based on a divine order, meaning divinely ordained distinctions. Among these divine distinctions are God and man, man and woman, human and animal, good and evil, nature and God, and the holy and the profane.
No. 7: Man is not basically good. Christians speak of “original sin” in referring to man’s sinful nature; Jews cite God Himself in Genesis: “The will of man’s heart is evil from his youth” (Genesis 8:21). They are not identical beliefs, but they are both worlds apart from the naive Enlightenment belief that man is basically good. And they come to the same conclusion: we need God-based rules to keep us from our natural inclination to do evil.
No. 8: Therefore, we must not follow our hearts. Both religious Jews and Christians are keenly aware of how morally dangerous it is to be led by our emotions. Those who reject Judeo-Christian values are far more likely to follow and promote the advice, “Follow your heart.”
No. 9: God gave us the Ten Commandments — the core of Judeo-Christian values. Therefore, to apply but one of the Ten Commandments to our morally confused secular age, you must “Honor your father and mother” even if they voted for someone you loathe — meaning, at the least, remain in contact with them and do not dare deprive them of the right to be in contact with their grandchildren.
No. 10: Human beings have free will. In the secular world, there is no free will because all human behavior is attributed to biology and environment. Only a religious worldview, because it posits the existence of a divine soul — something independent of biology and environment — allows for free will.
There is another important aspect to the term “Judeo-Christian.” The two religions need each other. Without the Old Testament, there is no New Testament. Virtually every Christian moral principle derives from the Hebrew Bible — not only the 10 Judeo-Christian values enumerated here, but such basic moral principles as “Love your neighbor as yourself (Leviticus 19:18), “Love the Lord your God with all your heart …” (Deuteronomy 6:5), and “Love the stranger” (Deuteronomy 10:19).
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LeftyLen
Active Member
for the woke 'hater bigot hater fascist' are rhetorical bromides that are invoked to quell rational discourse. If two guys want to putt in the ruff in their own homes, dress up like ladies, do drag in a club or bar, that's not the government's or my business, when its pandered in schools or in public, that's everyone's business, and a sign of cultural decline. 'Treating other ethically' means mostly leaving them alone.
LeftyLen
Active Member
what woke is, cultural marxism is very clear, that has been made clear on these blogs ad nauseum.
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
More than a few people woudl say lying is morally wrong but you don't seem to have any problems with that when you talk about groomers in schools. Is lying good?
are you saying that by extension prejudice and/or hate based on someone being different is just wrong?
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
The prejudice you are posting here isn't rational.
LeftyLen
Active Member
No groomers in schools straight or homosexual is acceptable and yes i am prejudice against groomers. Now stating 'leaving others alone' in their homes no matter what their lifestyle is very rational, why would it not be?
Argentbear
Well-Known Member
So you are prejudice against something that doesn't exist. Yep that is completely rational.
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Numbers 13 and 14
Numbers 31
Joshua 1 through 6
Judges 21:10 through 24
Deuteronomy 20: 10 through 14
Deuteronomy 22: 28 & 29
Deuteronomy 22: 24 & 24
Judges 5: 30
Zechariah 14: 1 and 2
Exodus 21: 7 through 11
Deuteronomy 21: 10 through 14
Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
It's been debunked every time. That's even clearer.
Wandering Monk
Well-Known Member
Should a drag queen be Vice President of the US? I am asking MAGA folks.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Jesus was such a woke snowflake.
endlessvoid2018
*Banned*
Ah, the natural conservative recourse in a tight situation: conspiracy theories.
It has also been made clear time and time again of conservatives inability to accept or tolerant
others other than straight, evangelical Christians.
You're a hypocrite, much like many Christians. You speak of loving values from "God," and from the Bible, but also openly speak against the tolerance of others. People like you are the reason why people are deconstructing in massive droves from Christianity, and what's wrong with religion.
Jesus openly ate with and partook in the company of others that society deemed "sinners," and I am sure some of them in this day in age would probably be considered a "groomer," to some degree, but openly accepted everyone. Christians, especially fundamentalists, never practice what they preach.
endlessvoid2018
*Banned*
You know, they would probably secretly like that. After all, there was several studies showing how people in red states are obsessed with transgender, femboy and shemale porn, all while publicly condemning such people at the same time. Massive hypocrisy there.
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SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
This is just a list of "Judeo-Christian Values" cribbed from this site:
endlessvoid2018
*Banned*
All mindless dribble. Delusional, hypocritical non-sense that has no merit, or basis in actual fact, evidence, or anything else other than superstition.
"Christianity," is nothing but an opinion. There are many religious opinions out there, what makes yours the truth, because you believe it?
And once again, as many Christians do, you hold "God," the ultimate giver of morals. Yet, God in the Bible, specifically the Old Testament, frequently killed people, commanded others to kill, allowed slavery, down to the specifics of how to keep slaves, and committed genocide, and other atrocities.
So tell me, where is your moral argument for such behavior? You hold this God, and these revelations of such as a standard of all morals. This is false.
Furthermore, there are at least 18,000 gods that have been conjured by mankind. What makes your "opinion," and your presumed values and the assumption that your truth is the only truth? Did your God come down and tell you this himself, or are you following from the Bible specifically, a book known to have flaws and many contradictions?
"Christianity," is nothing but an opinion. There are many religious opinions out there, what makes yours the truth, because you believe it?
And once again, as many Christians do, you hold "God," the ultimate giver of morals. Yet, God in the Bible, specifically the Old Testament, frequently killed people, commanded others to kill, allowed slavery, down to the specifics of how to keep slaves, and committed genocide, and other atrocities.
So tell me, where is your moral argument for such behavior? You hold this God, and these revelations of such as a standard of all morals. This is false.
Furthermore, there are at least 18,000 gods that have been conjured by mankind. What makes your "opinion," and your presumed values and the assumption that your truth is the only truth? Did your God come down and tell you this himself, or are you following from the Bible specifically, a book known to have flaws and many contradictions?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
This is an assertion. Not a value or redeeming quality.
This is nonsense and suggests that people who don't believe in God can't make moral judgments. Which is silly.
There are many humans agree on and many we don't.
I don't agree that you should say, stone your unruly child to death, or own human beings as property, and yet the Bible condones those things.
I think slavery is immoral. Whomever wrote the Bible doesn't seem to agree with me.
Except that is exactly how we enumerate our rights - via democratic vote, government legislation, etc.
The Bill of Rights, for instance. Where does the Bible have a timeless and universal bill of rights?
This implies that human life is only "precious" if it's created in the image of something else that is also "precious?"
This is just an assertion that I've seen zero evidence for.
This is definitely not a redeeming quality or a value worth valuing, in my opinion since it diminishes us and lays blame and responsibility upon us for something that had absolutely nothing to do with us. In fact, I think this is an extremely harmful and destructive view of humanity. Assuming people are all just evil to the core is a terrible way to carry on with life.
The last statement is just an assertion, not in evidence. And in fact, I'd say the evidence indicates the opposite, given that nonbelievers are perfectly capable of weighing out moral decisions without the need to invoke any gods. I can figure out on my own that slavery is immoral, despite the fact that the God of the Bible condones it.
I have ZERO inclination to "do evil." None whatsoever. This is an extremely harmful view of humanity, if you ask me. Walking around imagining everyone is evil and wanting to commit evil acts. I don't want to live in such a suspicious and paranoid world as that.
Not sure at all what is "redeeming" about telling human beings they're evil from the get-go. (Which is a demonstrably false assertion anyway.)
My dad went to his grave believing he was a terrible, irredeemable person and that bugs me to this day. This stuff is harmful to peoples' mental health.
This is again, just an assertion, not in evidence.
Not a value.
Not a redeeming quality.
Just a judgy Karen-type statement.
Also it makes zero sense. Hearts pump blood. And they have very little to do with the emotion processing centres in our brains.
The first four Commandments are just God's ego talking. There's nothing in there about values or morality.
And the rest of them are pretty lame, if you ask me.
How about "Thou shalt not harm children." Or "Thou shalt not own human beings as property." Or something more useful than, honour your mother and father and don't covet your neighbours oxen and wife.
Except that's just an assertion you can't demonstrate.
"Love your neighbour as yourself" only works if your neighbour is a decent person and not a criminal. I'm not going to love Hitler as I would love myself, for example. That would be a giant mistake that would get a bunch of people killed.
I'll have to remember this the next time I quote the Old Testament and the Christian I'm talking to says "why are you quoting that, it's the Old Testament!"
Exercising morality requires that we weigh out the consequences of our actions in regards to how they affect us and others around us.
Following orders from on high isn't an exercise in morality. Rather, it's an exercise in "Might makes right and do what you're told."
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Wrong, I've never experienced your God. But I've experienced my Gods. So there are multiple Gods. Yours and kone included.
Not true.
No, morality is subjective not objective.
Sure. But this has nothing to do with any Christian deity.
This ain't unique to Christianity. All men are created in the image of their Gods.
The world is based on a Natural order which itself is Divine. There is no dichotomy, only unity.
Man is not flawed, man is as perfect as the Gods created them.
You can't "lead from your heart", then turn around and denigrate "emotions", that is your "heart" metaphorically .
No, your God gave your Tribe the ten commandments.
No they don't. Humans are bound by the Fates. Destiny and Fate drives our lives, not free will.
That's fine? I guess.
Edit: spelling.
LeftyLen
Active Member
'No, morality is subjective not objective' then if you can get away with murder , or anything else then there is no reason not to as no transcendent. values exist. ", I've never experienced your God. But I've experienced my Gods. So there are multiple Gods'---yes for many there are different gods, Television, self, sports teams, and government itself. "follow your heart' -with such a capricious values, one is responsible to nothing at all. With no free will one is an automaton