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Question for Jews

Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
FearGod said:
Why the need for the wall in first place?, whether praying to or at the wall.
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The wall is the last remnant of the Second Temple. The Temple is a very holy place. It was the House of G-d. This means that we are closer to G-d's presence there, than anywhere else in the world. It is appropriate to pray to G-d from as close as possible to Him as one can get. Its better to be able to ask the king directly to his face for a favor, rather than have to shout it from the hallway.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Tumah said:
The wall is the last remnant of the Second Temple. The Temple is a very holy place. It was the House of G-d. This means that we are closer to G-d's presence there, than anywhere else in the world. It is appropriate to pray to G-d from as close as possible to Him as one can get. Its better to be able to ask the king directly to his face for a favor, rather than have to shout it from the hallway.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's praying to or at the holy wall to be much closer to God, it makes sense.
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
syncretic said:
Huh? There are people on the forums who are 'Jewish' , /ethnicity, etc., and are atheists, Satanists, whatever. No idea what your comment is supposed to mean,
''identity as a Jew'', /bowing, religious affiliation, is arbitrary and subjective.
you mean 'identity as practicing Judaism'
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I mean that if someone is identifying as a Jew (and not as an atheist or a Satanist or a Christian) then that person's opinion regarding a question related to being a Jew should have to do with that identification as a Jew or otherwise the question and the marker, as you define it, are meaningless.

I will ask "What text do Christians hold as biblically canonical" and someone who calls himself "Christian" even though he believes in Muhammed etc will say "the Quran." But hey, he is ethnically (etc?) Christian so he can answer and represent his answer as being in line with that title of "Christian." Same thing.

Being a Jew is a function of birth or conversion. This is a rule decided upon by the religion itself -- no one outside the system can decide upon the rules for the system. When someone answers as a member of the group, to a question about the practices of the group, his answer should, likewise, come from within that group.
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
syncretic said:
There shouldn't even be an argument here. 'Jew' does not mean the same thing as ''Judaism'', period. I'm frankly surprised that any jews are arguing with me about this, i'm sure they know Jews who aren't practicing, and Jews with differing religious belief. Perhaps they don't consider Jews as jewish anymore if they join the CoS /Church of Satan,, so forth, I'm not sure
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Jew does not mean the same thing as Judaism because they are not identical but that does not mean that they are distinct. A Jew is someone who is a member of the group which is defined by Judaism as a Jew. This does not mean that he practices the rites and rituals of Judaism but it does mean that if he identifies as a Jew in order to answer a question about Jews his answer should reflect that aspect of Judaism that confers upon him the title of Jew. If he identifies as "Jew" and answers a question of Jews then an answer citing Christian doctrine should be frowned upon. Let the person call himself a Christian if his theological position is determined by allegiance to that religious doctrine.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
rosends said:
Jew does not mean the same thing as Judaism because they are not identical but that does not mean that they are distinct. A Jew is someone who is a member of the group which is defined by Judaism as a Jew. This does not mean that he practices the rites and rituals of Judaism but it does mean that if he identifies as a Jew in order to answer a question about Jews his answer should reflect that aspect of Judaism that confers upon him the title of Jew. If he identifies as "Jew" and answers a question of Jews then an answer citing Christian doctrine should be frowned upon. Let the person call himself a Christian if his theological position is determined by allegiance to that religious doctrine.
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Anyways, considering that he hasn't answered the post addressing his comments, and hasn't explained his religion listing, there's no reason in discussing it
 
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FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Servant_of_the_One1 said:
We dont bow to Kabah. The black stone cannot benefit us and it cannot harm us aswell.

Amir al muminun Umar ibn al Khattab(may Allah be pleased with him) the Champion of Islam said:
I know that you are a stone, you do not cause benefit or harm; and if it were not that I had seen Allâh’s Messenger – peace and blessings of Allâh be upon him – kiss you, I would never have kissed you.”
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Who heard Umar saying that about the stone and why he needed to say it?

Why Umar ibn al Khattab didn't ask the prophet about why the stone should be kissed?
I don't think Umar is that kind of a person that do things without questioning it and hence I
don't believe the story.

Did they ever asked the prophet about why they need to kiss the stone? I don't think that
no one asked him for the purpose of kissing the stone, and how the stone is different from
the idols if the stone will make us closer to Allah, not to mention the unbelieving story that
the stone was white and then with people's sins it turned to black.

My brother, follow your heart and your mind and don't believe all the stories which some were
made up by the disbelievers to mock the religion and even the prophet himself.

The quran is our source for the truth, if the stone is that important for our relation with God
then we should find it in the quran.
 
Tumah

Tumah

Veteran Member
FearGod said:
My brother, follow your heart and your mind and don't believe all the stories which some were
made up by the disbelievers to mock the religion and even the prophet himself.
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I don't understand this line. Obviously his heart and his mind disagrees with your heart and mind. And this is to be expected since you are different people raised differently in different places.
I noticed that a few of you guys mention this type of thing: if someone would follow his heart then he would become a good Muslim. And a related concept that anyone who isn't a good Muslim is because they are following the evil impulse of their heart (lust). These are two contradictory things and also completely unrealistic. Not everyone thinks the same and not everyone is the same. To expect everyone to come to the same conclusion as you on the basis of their feelings, is impossible.

I can say the same thing to you: the reason you aren't Jewish is because of your lust, you know that Islam is easier to follow than Judaism, so in your heart you convince yourself that its right. If you would follow your heart and your mind, obviously then you would be Jewish. But of course that's ridiculous because you weren't raised in Judaism, you know almost nothing about Judaism and your upbringing taught you something different than what mine did. So of course your heart will tell you something differently.

Its the same thing with your friend here. Just because he believes a story doesn't mean that he isn't following his heart and mind. It just means his heart and mind is different than your heart and mind.
 
FearGod

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Tumah said:
I don't understand this line. Obviously his heart and his mind disagrees with your heart and mind. And this is to be expected since you are different people raised differently in different places.
I noticed that a few of you guys mention this type of thing: if someone would follow his heart then he would become a good Muslim. And a related concept that anyone who isn't a good Muslim is because they are following the evil impulse of their heart (lust). These are two contradictory things and also completely unrealistic. Not everyone thinks the same and not everyone is the same. To expect everyone to come to the same conclusion as you on the basis of their feelings, is impossible.

I can say the same thing to you: the reason you aren't Jewish is because of your lust, you know that Islam is easier to follow than Judaism, so in your heart you convince yourself that its right. If you would follow your heart and your mind, obviously then you would be Jewish. But of course that's ridiculous because you weren't raised in Judaism, you know almost nothing about Judaism and your upbringing taught you something different than what mine did. So of course your heart will tell you something differently.

Its the same thing with your friend here. Just because he believes a story doesn't mean that he isn't following his heart and mind. It just means his heart and mind is different than your heart and mind.
Click to expand...

Yes everyone follow his own mind and heart even the drug addict.
 
Servant_of_the_One1

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
FearGod said:
Who heard Umar saying that about the stone and why he needed to say it?

Why Umar ibn al Khattab didn't ask the prophet about why the stone should be kissed?
I don't think Umar is that kind of a person that do things without questioning it and hence I
don't believe the story.

Did they ever asked the prophet about why they need to kiss the stone? I don't think that
no one asked him for the purpose of kissing the stone, and how the stone is different from
the idols if the stone will make us closer to Allah, not to mention the unbelieving story that
the stone was white and then with people's sins it turned to black.

My brother, follow your heart and your mind and don't believe all the stories which some were
made up by the disbelievers to mock the religion and even the prophet himself.

The quran is our source for the truth, if the stone is that important for our relation with God
then we should find it in the quran.
Click to expand...
well u are quranist
 
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