Question for the Evangelical Community

[omega2xx]

Now answer mine.

How thoroughly does your church teach salvation from the pulpit?[/QUOTE]

Almost never. It will be mentioned if the text he is preaching from requires it to me mentioned.

In our Sunday School it is about 90% teaching and 10 % preaching. From the pulpit it is aboout 50 50.

 

[metis]

The requirement then is for a baptizer, not for a public setting. It would be public (with the baptizer there) only by default.

But it was for a public setting as baptism involved more than just the forgiveness of sins but also was a gateway into the church, and we well know that this is how the early church regarded it. Here's an example:

The first recorded liturgy of baptism, written down by Saint Hippolytus of Rome (170–235) in his Apostolic Tradition, required men, women and children to remove all clothing, including all foreign objects such as jewellery and hair fastenings.

1. At the hour in which the cock crows, they shall first pray over the water.
2. When they come to the water, the water shall be pure and flowing, that is, the water of a spring or a flowing body of water.
3. Then they shall take off all their clothes.
4. The children shall be baptized first. All of the children who can answer for themselves, let them answer. If there are any children who cannot answer for themselves, let their parents answer for them, or someone else from their family.
5. After this, the men will be baptized. Finally, the women, after they have unbound their hair, and removed their jewelry. No one shall take any foreign object with themselves down into the water. -- Baptism - Wikipedia

If you check with your denomination, my guess is that no one is likely to become a full member of your church unless their either are baptized in the church or produce a document of baptism from another church. I know this was the case with the fundamentalist Protestant church I grew up in as well as my wife's Catholic church.

 

[e.r.m.]

How thoroughly does your church teach salvation from the pulpit?

Almost never. It will be mentioned if the text he is preaching from requires it to me mentioned.

In our Sunday School it is about 90% teaching and 10 % preaching. From the pulpit it is aboout 50 50.

Ok, how thoroughly does your Sunday school teach it?

 

[omega2xx]

But the goats believe about Jesus, and this is what you don't get, namely the difference between talking-the-talk and walking-the-walk. A true belief in Jesus teaches one to do both, and yet you only go with for former.

There is no evidence the goats believe about Jesus---they had not been doing the works. I am not ignoring works. They have been prepared by God for His children to do(Eph 2:10). WE are to let our light shine that men may see our good works and glorify God. Faith without works is not saving faith. No works = dead faith.

The reality is that you really only accept parts of Jesus' teachings that coincide with what you've been taught to believe by your denomination, which cherry-picks the scriptures to fit into their pre-determined agenda. Over and over again Jesus and the apostles demand living out of the gospel and not just sitting back with a nice comfortable rocking-chair religion while spouting p.c. dogmas.

Not true, fundamentalist accept all of the Bible as God's inspired word. It is the liberals who don't accept all of it as being inspired. It is the liberals who start with a pre-determined agenda--Jesus did not miracles and no prophecy has been fulfilled.

So, let me recommend you reread the entire N.T., and while doing this simply ask yourself "What does Jesus and the apostles expect from me?".

Let me suggest you prayerfully study the entire NT and ask yourself the same questions. Let me also suggest that you don;t cherry pick the verse you like and dismiss tghe onnes you don't like.

 

[metis]

There is no evidence the goats believe about Jesus-

Matthew 25[32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
[33] and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
[34] Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
[35] for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
[36] I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'
[37] Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
[38] And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
[39] And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?'
[40] And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'
[41] Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
[42] for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
[43] I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
[44] Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?'
[45] Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.'
[46] And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Note the verses that I underlined deal with Jesus' response back to the "goats". Obviously, the goats believed about him but not in him.

So, maybe it's time for you to find a denomination that actually encourages you to read the Bible the way it is and not ignore what's actually written.

 

[MJFlores]

Now answer mine.

How thoroughly does your church teach salvation from the pulpit?[/QUOTE]

Every worship services, it is all about the Lord Jesus Christ, salvation and all about preparing for Judgement Day. And it is very thorough and in the bible, as I have shared with you.

If a church claiming to be of God but does not teach the truth or refuses to show proof and promises nothing, what is the use of such organization? You might just be better off watching a movie and you would be more entertained than going to such church.

I rather watch Star Wars than go to a church that would preach half truths or does not teach about how to be saved. Why would I even go to a church that preaches that you don't need the church to be saved - like just accept Jesus as a personal savior or once save always saved? It is like going to a church which says :

But in the church built by Christ - I can hear the bible speak. I can hear the Lord Jesus speak.

Luke 13:23-30 New International Version (NIV)

Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”

He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

“Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

“But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”

That is why in every worship service, I exert all effort to enter through the narrow door - even if that day I am sad because of a death of a loved one or whether it is a stormy day.

 

[e.r.m.]

How thoroughly does your church teach salvation from the pulpit?

Every worship services, it is all about the Lord Jesus Christ, salvation and all about preparing for Judgement Day. And it is very thorough and in the bible, as I have shared with you.

If a church claiming to be of God but does not teach the truth or refuses to show proof and promises nothing, what is the use of such organization? You might just be better off watching a movie and you would be more entertained than going to such church.

View attachment 18037

I rather watch Star Wars than go to a church that would preach half truths or does not teach about how to be saved. Why would I even go to a church that preaches that you don't need the church to be saved - like just accept Jesus as a personal savior or once save always saved? It is like going to a church which says :

View attachment 18038

But in the church built by Christ - I can hear the bible speak. I can hear the Lord Jesus speak.

Luke 13:23-30 New International Version (NIV)

Someone asked him, “Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?”

He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

“But he will answer, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from.’

“Then you will say, ‘We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets.’

“But he will reply, ‘I don’t know you or where you come from. Away from me, all you evildoers!’

“There will be weeping there, and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. People will come from east and west and north and south, and will take their places at the feast in the kingdom of God. Indeed there are those who are last who will be first, and first who will be last.”

That is why in every worship service, I exert all effort to enter through the narrow door - even if that day I am sad because of a death of a loved one or whether it is a stormy day.
View attachment 18039

Ok, thank you. Is being baptized part of getting saved in your belief system?

 

[omega2xx]

Matthew 25[32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats,
[33] and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.
[34] Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
[35] for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me,
[36] I was naked and you clothed me, I was sick and you visited me, I was in prison and you came to me.'
[37] Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
[38] And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
[39] And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?'
[40] And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'
[41] Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
[42] for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
[43] I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'
[44] Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?'
[45] Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.'
[46] And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Note the verses that I underlined deal with Jesus' response back to the "goats". Obviously, the goats believed about him but not in him.

Those verse do say they believe about Him They only say they were not doing wht Jesus tols us to do.

So, maybe it's time for you to find a denomination that actually encourages you to read the Bible the way it is and not ignore what's actually written.

Maybe you need to find a denomination that teaches not to try and read between the lines. You are adding to God's word and we are told not to do that.

 

[metis]

Those verse do say they believe about Him They only say they were not doing wht Jesus tols us to do.

Do you ever stop and think before posting? Maybe read what I had posted last and then compare that to your response above because what you wrote here doesn't make one iota of sense in the context of what I posted.

 

[MJFlores]

Ok, thank you. Is being baptized part of getting saved in your belief system?

Not in my belief system, but written in the bible. If not found in the bible then it is not God's plan for man to be saved.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

And how could one believe when he does not know?

Romans 10:13-15
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

So in order for one to believe, he must first hear - and he must hear it from someone who is sent and not just from anybody. So where could one find someone who could teach and is sent?

1 Timothy 5:17
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

And make sure, that is the church established by Christ, his body. It is pitiful for a person who left one false faith only to fall for another. So discern everything if the teachings are found in the bible, test the teaching, be skeptical but open minded and be attentive.

Ask questions to remove all doubts.

Even the Lord Jesus Christ had apostle Thomas test him if he is not a spirit.

John 20:27
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

And finally when a person believes and does not doubt, he would be ready for baptism and that baptism must be in that ONE BODY

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Belief system? Nope, this is just the start of being IN Christ as written in the Bible.

Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

 

[e.r.m.]

Not in my belief system, but written in the bible. If not found in the bible then it is not God's plan for man to be saved.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

And how could one believe when he does not know?

View attachment 18040

Romans 10:13-15
How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

So in order for one to believe, he must first hear - and he must hear it from someone who is sent and not just from anybody. So where could one find someone who could teach and is sent?

1 Timothy 5:17
The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

And make sure, that is the church established by Christ, his body. It is pitiful for a person who left one false faith only to fall for another. So discern everything if the teachings are found in the bible, test the teaching, be skeptical but open minded and be attentive.

View attachment 18042

Ask questions to remove all doubts.

Even the Lord Jesus Christ had apostle Thomas test him if he is not a spirit.

John 20:27
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

And finally when a person believes and does not doubt, he would be ready for baptism and that baptism must be in that ONE BODY

View attachment 18041

Ephesians 4:4-6
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

Belief system? Nope, this is just the start of being IN Christ as written in the Bible.

Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.

You answered the question, but can you give one simple answer?

 

[omega2xx]

Do you ever stop and think before posting? Maybe read what I had posted last and then compare that to your response above because what you wrote here doesn't make one iota of sense in the context of what I posted.

Sure it does. You have said those not doing the works knew about Jesus. If they did, they would have been doing the works. There is no indication in that passage that they knew about Jesus.

It is really irrelevant. Those who had done the works are called "righteous." They are doing the works to be obedient, because they are saved, not to be saved.

 

[MJFlores]

Your answered the question, but can you give one simple answer?

Is being baptized part of getting saved in your belief system?

 

[e.r.m.]

Is being baptized part of getting saved in your belief system?View attachment 18054

Si. Esto se encuentra en la Biblia. Pero puedo decir que si. Es todo lo que le estaba preguntando.

Talvez, su congregacion es una de las Iglesias de Cristo ultraconservativas de que me han contado. Si eso es el caso, estamos de acuerdo con la mayoria de las creyencias, con algunas diferencias sutiles.

 

[metis]

There is no indication in that passage that they knew about Jesus.

But that's the difference between about and in. The "goats" believed about Jesus but not in Jesus, and that should be abundantly clear based on the context of the parable.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You might just be better off watching a movie and you would be more entertained than going to such church.

How come even the Star Wars prequel trilogy is better than most biblical movies?

He said to them, “Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, ‘Sir, open the door for us.’

Your God may love making it nearly impossible to show up, but mine would widen the door and install ramps.

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

What does a quick bath actually do? What is the objective mechanism that dihydrogen oxide uses to cleanse souls?

The elders who direct the affairs of the church well are worthy of double honor, especially those whose work is preaching and teaching.

But I consider the moral that we should be focused only on our own reward in heaven is selfish. Now what?

Ask questions to remove all doubts.

Ask questions but it's mandatory to end up agreeing with a specific denomination?

John 20:27
Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here; see my hands. Reach out your hand and put it into my side. Stop doubting and believe.”

Thomas' reaction SHOULD have been: if you are Jesus, why are there just the most remembered injuries and not the fact that you were tortured so much you should look like human hamburger? It's only been 3 days, after all. Skin excoriation from urinary incontinence doesn't usually heal that fast ...

 

[Desert Snake]

Not in my belief system, but written in the bible. If not found in the bible then it is not God's plan for man to be saved.

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Completely different baptism

Matthew 3: 11

What you are promoting is magicalism

 

[e.r.m.]

How come even the Star Wars prequel trilogy is better than most biblical movies?

Because Star Wars movies are supposed to be fiction. With Biblical movies they change so many things, it's not Biblical anymore and they turn into fiction.

 

[e.r.m.]

Your God may love making it nearly impossible to show up, but mine would widen the door and install ramps.

MJFlores quoted scripture, not sentiment. Since Jesus said that much, then it is true.

What does a quick bath actually do? What is the objective mechanism that dihydrogen oxide uses to cleanse souls?

Again MJFlores quoted scripture Mark 16:16. Since Jesus said that much, then it is true. You'll have to defer that question to God.

But I consider the moral that we should be focused only on our own reward in heaven is selfish. Now what?

I agree. We shouldn't be focused only on our own reward, but I don't believe that was the intent of the verse which MJFLORES quoted.

Ask questions but it's mandatory to end up agreeing with a specific denomination?

A growing number of different groups now are believing in Mark 16:16. So no is the answer to your question.

Thomas' reaction SHOULD have been: if you are Jesus, why are there just the most remembered injuries and not the fact that you were tortured so much you should look like human hamburger? It's only been 3 days, after all. Skin excoriation from urinary incontinence doesn't usually heal that fast ...

Interesting point. But then again, He shouldn't be alive by any natural means either. Then again, Jesus may have been wearing clothing over his torso and his extremities may have been all that was needed to make His point.

 

[MJFlores]

Si. Esto se encuentra en la Biblia. Pero puedo decir que si. Es todo lo que le estaba preguntando.

Talvez, su congregacion es una de las Iglesias de Cristo ultraconservativas de que me han contado. Si eso es el caso, estamos de acuerdo con la mayoria de las creyencias, con algunas diferencias sutiles.

¿Por qué el uso de la lengua española, por lo que sería cifrado para que el resto de los estadounidenses no saben? De todos modos, los filipinos no son personas de habla española, excepto por unos pocos en Zamboanga llamado Chabacanos. Hablamos el tagalo y otros siete dialectos.

Unos pocos filipinos todavía saben español porque España ha colonizado las Filipinas durante 333 años hasta que los estadounidenses vinieron y ocuparon el país en 1898-1946. Durante la ocupación americana, dejamos de usar la lengua española como la Educación Americana influyó en nuestro pensamiento.

La Iglesia de Cristo de la que soy miembro, no nos consideramos "ultra conservadores". Lo que está en la Biblia, lo seguimos y lo que no está en la Biblia, lo rechazamos. Todo lo que hacemos y creemos en se encuentra en la Biblia.


No veo a la iglesia como una de las religiones ultraconservadoras, pero es una sorpresa que los bautistas, los episcopales y los católicos tradicionales lo hicieron en la lista.

The 10 Most Dangerous Religious Right Organizations

Conservative Christianity - Wikipedia