Question to anyone... But mainly to female transgenders

[Callisto]

It's called history.

What you think and what is history are not the same, but ok.

How long do you think people have been transitioning? Medically or otherwise?

Well, personally. I've known several transpersons for over 30 years but the condition itself and treatments date back much further. But you're not answering my questions, why?

I'm not. I'm putting it in perspective. I know the history you don't. Seriously, the reason there are so few today is because in the past medical practitioners amd researchers saw a crisis. And because of that the Standards of Care was developed. It's still in use today and regularily updated.

Oh, I know the history quite well. I just don't cherry-pick or put a spin on it.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

So because I don't agree with you 100% that means I don't care?

No, you don't care because you're a bad faith actor trying to use the experience of a minority of a minority to enact personal agendas based on your own biases.

What agenda am I putting forth?

Gatekeeping trans identities and positioning the trans people you don't disagree with as an out group, not real trans, or any number of other punching down you use. Such as misgendering trans people you don't like like Dylan (which is an ******* thing to do.)
Pushing conservative propaganda as a 'reasonable center,' despite having nothing but fear mongering to show for it.

Where are you stats to prove your assertion about "most detrans"?

You can look at any study of satisfaction polls of any and all bottom surgery and all will have a satisfaction rate of 99% or greater. Or, you could go to trans researchers like the one I already named earlier and look at percentages of detrans based on things like health conflict, loss of job and health coverage, unsafe place to transition, stopping temporarily to start a family or for a move. Or you could go to the same social media places you mentioned earlier and actually listen to trans people talk about why they detransitioned. The vast majority of them will not be because they aren't trans, or because they stopped identifying as trans.

I'll even throw you a bone and you can go from here to one of the many studies listed. How common is transgender treatment regret, detransitioning?

They're not intersex. Nor do intersex people appreciate

You did not just try to monolith one of the most diverse groups out there.
First of all, there are trans intersex, there are nonbinary trans intersex, there are genderfluid intersex, and there are intersex detransitioners. From young media facing intersex people like Courtney Bean to older intersex people like Colin Campbell who have called stopping or reversing the gender conforming treatments they were forced into by their parents 'detransitioning' and are representative in studies about detransition for that very reason.

When the current bumper crop of medically transitioned persons have been living trans 10 or more years out, then you can make emphatic declarations.

This is akin to when ******* doctors insist that women seeking sterilization having no kids "are sure to regret it." But worse, because transition regret is *even lower than that.* If all you got is 'someday you'll see' then you can saunter on out of here because you've got nothing.

Since you deny the reality of their experience it appears you've done no research at all.

Projection on your part. You've clearly looked at more OP eds than you've done research and listening, except to the minority of vids said OP eds highlight. And it's very evident the amount of research you've done is close to nil. And yet you continuously talk as if you're an authority, or worse, the arbiter of what makes the community good or bad.

I'm not going to waste any more time with you on this. Because you clearly don't know what you're talking about and I doubt you're going to do better. So byeeeee.

A parting gift, a whole bunch of tiktoks of trans people who detransitioned but still identify as trans:

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7159558125077417222 https://www.tiktok.com/video/7156378244059663662 https://www.tiktok.com/video/7162713191019990315 https://www.tiktok.com/video/6935175311197867269

(Edit to put behind quotes because I guess all tiktok links are embeds now.)

 

[We Never Know]

No, you don't care because you're a bad faith actor trying to use the experience of a minority of a minority to enact personal agendas based on your own biases.

Gatekeeping trans identities and positioning the trans people you don't disagree with as an out group, not real trans, or any number of other punching down you use. Such as misgendering trans people you don't like like Dylan (which is an ******* thing to do.)
Pushing conservative propaganda as a 'reasonable center,' despite having nothing but fear mongering to show for it.

You can look at any study of satisfaction polls of any and all bottom surgery and all will have a satisfaction rate of 99% or greater. Or, you could go to trans researchers like the one I already named earlier and look at percentages of detrans based on things like health conflict, loss of job and health coverage, unsafe place to transition, stopping temporarily to start a family or for a move. Or you could go to the same social media places you mentioned earlier and actually listen to trans people talk about why they detransitioned. The vast majority of them will not be because they aren't trans, or because they stopped identifying as trans.

I'll even throw you a bone and you can go from here to one of the many studies listed. How common is transgender treatment regret, detransitioning?

You did not just try to monolith one of the most diverse groups out there.
First of all, there are trans intersex, there are nonbinary trans intersex, there are genderfluid intersex, and there are intersex detransitioners. From young media facing intersex people like Courtney Bean to older intersex people like Colin Campbell who have called stopping or reversing the gender conforming treatments they were forced into by their parents 'detransitioning' and are representative in studies about detransition for that very reason.

This is akin to when ******* doctors insist that women seeking sterilization having no kids "are sure to regret it." But worse, because transition regret is *even lower than that.* If all you got is 'someday you'll see' then you can saunter on out of here because you've got nothing.

Projection on your part. You've clearly looked at more OP eds than you've done research and listening, except to the minority of vids said OP eds highlight. And it's very evident the amount of research you've done is close to nil. And yet you continuously talk as if you're an authority, or worse, the arbiter of what makes the community good or bad.

I'm not going to waste any more time with you on this. Because you clearly don't know what you're talking about and I doubt you're going to do better. So byeeeee.

A parting gift, a whole bunch of tiktoks of trans people who detransitioned but still identify as trans:

(Edit to put behind quotes because I guess all tiktok links are embeds now.)

Man there are a bunch of studies on detransitioning and regret. All you have to do is search for them. Depending on the study/country its any where from 2% up to 25%

Detransition Among Transgender and Gender-Diverse People—An Increasing and Increasingly Complex Phenomenon

Although transgender and gender-diverse (TGD) people have been receiving hormone therapy and surgical interventions for several decades, information and pu

academic.oup.com

How Many Trans People Regret Transitioning? | Human Life International

Transgender regret statistics: how many trans people regret surgery? More than you'd think, given the mainstream media narrative.

www.hli.org

3 teens who thought they were trans explain why they detransitioned

Three young people who thought they were transgender explain to NewsNation why they chose to detransition.

www-newsnationnow-com.cdn.ampproject.org

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Man there are a bunch of studies on detransitioning and regret. All you have to do is search for them. Depending on the study/country its any where from 2% up to 25%

Detransition Among Transgender and Gender-Diverse People—An Increasing and Increasingly Complex Phenomenon

Although transgender and gender-diverse (TGD) people have been receiving hormone therapy and surgical interventions for several decades, information and pu

academic.oup.com

How Many Trans People Regret Transitioning? | Human Life International

Transgender regret statistics: how many trans people regret surgery? More than you'd think, given the mainstream media narrative.

www.hli.org

3 teens who thought they were trans explain why they detransitioned

Three young people who thought they were transgender explain to NewsNation why they chose to detransition.

www-newsnationnow-com.cdn.ampproject.org

The first link talks about stopping transition for trans on VA health benefits, not about regret. It also talks about another study which showed that over half of the trans were people whodl detransitioned only stopped temporarily and restarted later.

Your second link is from a Christian rag page, and even it's studies do not talk about high regret.

And the third one also mentions the study that the vast majority of detrans stopping started again later, or still identified as trans.

Finally, the AP article linked earlier is newer, more comprehensive, and not only shows low regret rates but thay they've been declining.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Man there are a bunch of studies on detransitioning and regret. All you have to do is search for them. Depending on the study/country its any where from 2% up to 25%

Detransition Among Transgender and Gender-Diverse People—An Increasing and Increasingly Complex Phenomenon

Although transgender and gender-diverse (TGD) people have been receiving hormone therapy and surgical interventions for several decades, information and pu

academic.oup.com

How Many Trans People Regret Transitioning? | Human Life International

Transgender regret statistics: how many trans people regret surgery? More than you'd think, given the mainstream media narrative.

www.hli.org

3 teens who thought they were trans explain why they detransitioned

Three young people who thought they were transgender explain to NewsNation why they chose to detransition.

www-newsnationnow-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Also I think it's funny that the only time surgical regret was talked about in the first link, it was literally less than 1%. And most of that less than 1% was because of lack of acceptance and because they found out they're nonbinary.

 

[We Never Know]

Also I think it's funny that the only time surgical regret was talked about in the first link, it was literally less than 1%. And most of that less than 1% was because of lack of acceptance and because they found out they're nonbinary.

And some realize they were actually gay/lesbian.
And some say they were pushed by family and Dr's
And some say they were going through a depression stage
And some say ...

One link I read(don't know if it was one of those three) a 16 year old transmale had a vasectomy then at 20 realized she wasnt transgender and wanted to get married and have kids but would never be able to breast feed them.

There is a whole lot of reading on it if a person looks for it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Since you deny the reality of their experience it appears you've done no research at all.

Is that baseless, flase assumption going to get repeated much more frequently? Seriously, you've well demonstrated you aren't the most informed on this but yiu keep repeating that is though you expect it to eventually become true.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

And some realize they were actually gay/lesbian.
And some say they were pushed by family and Dr's
And some say they were going through a depression stage
And some say ...

One link I read(don't know if it was one of those three) a 16 year old transmale had a vasectomy then at 20 realized she wasnt transgender and wanted to get married and have kids but would never be able to breast feed them.

There is a whole lot of reading on it if a person looks for it.

Some, sure. But not most, not anywhere near most. So few that it's disingenuous to use them as scare tactics.

Also I'm assuming you meant mastectomy. I didn't have a mastectomy but I did have a breast reduction even earlier than that, at 14. And the possibility of regret not being able to breastfeed did not negate my ability to choose (with Dr and parent approval.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well, personally. I've known several transpersons for over 30 years but the condition itself and treatments date back much further. But you're not answering my questions, why?

Then how the hell do you think the history doesn't go back that far?
Or are you just adjusting things because you've been so thoroughly called out you had to abandon that claim?

When the current bumper crop of medically transitioned persons have been living trans 10 or more years out, then you can make emphatic declarations.

So, 30 years? 10 years? Do you even know?

Oh, I know the history quite well. I just don't cherry-pick or put a spin on it.

If you did, you wouldn't have stated my repeating the FACT regarding John Hopkins closing their program as imbicilic.
You don't know this history and making yourself out to be the imbicile trying to pass yourself off as knowledgeable when you obviously don't know dicks from dildos about, but are confident you know when someone jhst has to stay in the closet.

 

[We Never Know]

Some, sure. But not most, not anywhere near most. So few that it's disingenuous to use them as scare tactics.

Also I'm assuming you meant mastectomy. I didn't have a mastectomy but I did have a breast reduction even earlier than that, at 14. And the possibility of regret not being able to breastfeed did not negate my ability to choose (with Dr and parent approval.)

Then there is "lets start kids on hormone therapy at young ages".

"High-end estimates of desistance tended to arise from longitudinal studies of children who first reported gender dysphoria at an early age. The vast majority of those children resolved their gender dysphoria before, or early in, puberty. In one 2021 study published in Frontiers in Psychiatry, for instance, 88 percent of boys with gender dysphoria were found to have desisted by their teens or adulthood (and more than 63 percent were same-sex attracted).

A Desister’s Tale

How many trans-identified children “desist”? That is, how many identify as transgender for a time, and then eventually stop doing so, prior to medical intervention (as distinct from detransitioners, who return to identifying with their natal sex after undergoing some form of medical transition)...

quillette.com

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Then there is "lets start kids on hormone therapy at young ages".

"High-end estimates of desistance tended to arise from longitudinal studies of children who first reported gender dysphoria at an early age. The vast majority of those children resolved their gender dysphoria before, or early in, puberty. In one 2021 study published in Frontiers in Psychiatry, for instance, 88 percent of boys with gender dysphoria were found to have desisted by their teens or adulthood (and more than 63 percent were same-sex attracted).

A Desister’s Tale

How many trans-identified children “desist”? That is, how many identify as transgender for a time, and then eventually stop doing so, prior to medical intervention (as distinct from detransitioners, who return to identifying with their natal sex after undergoing some form of medical transition)...

quillette.com

*eyeroll* I also was a kid that started on hormones at a young age. 8, to be precise. Because doing so was better for my health than the risks of not doing so.
And I 'desisted' for a time too. Do you know why? Because I got injured, had to leave my job, lost my insurance, and my doctor wouldn't refill my prescription without a doctor's visit, which I couldn't afford.

Once again, nowhere in this study does it say they all or even a significant portion stopped because of regret, or stopped permanently. Also, Lisa Selin Davis is a known terf and transphobe.

 

[We Never Know]

*eyeroll* I also was a kid that started on hormones at a young age. 8, to be precise. Because doing so was better for my health than the risks of not doing so.
And I 'desisted' for a time too. Do you know why? Because I got injured, had to leave my job, lost my insurance, and my doctor wouldn't refill my prescription without a doctor's visit, which I couldn't afford.

Once again, nowhere in this study does it say they all or even a significant portion stopped because of regret, or stopped permanently. Also, Lisa Selin Davis is a known terf and transphobe.

You can roll your eyes all your want. That doesn't refute...
"in one 2021 study published in Frontiers in Psychiatry, for instance, 88 percent of boys with gender dysphoria were found to have desisted by their teens or adulthood (and more than 63 percent were same-sex attracted)."

 

[We Never Know]

*eyeroll* I also was a kid that started on hormones at a young age. 8, to be precise. Because doing so was better for my health than the risks of not doing so.
And I 'desisted' for a time too. Do you know why? Because I got injured, had to leave my job, lost my insurance, and my doctor wouldn't refill my prescription without a doctor's visit, which I couldn't afford.

Once again, nowhere in this study does it say they all or even a significant portion stopped because of regret, or stopped permanently. Also, Lisa Selin Davis is a known terf and transphobe.

And let me add,, I'm glad it worked out well for you. That doesn't mean it will for everyone.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

And let me add,, I'm glad it worked out well for you. That doesn't mean it will for everyone.

Newsflash:
Nothing in medicine, no medication or procedure, has a 100% success rate, is 100% without regret or 100% without risks or chance of side effects.

 

[We Never Know]

Newsflash:
Nothing in medicine, no medication or procedure, has a 100% success rate, is 100% without regret or 100% without risks or chance of side effects.

Well duh!! Which degree did you use to figure that out? Lmao

 

[We Never Know]

*eyeroll* I also was a kid that started on hormones at a young age. 8, to be precise. Because doing so was better for my health than the risks of not doing so.
And I 'desisted' for a time too. Do you know why? Because I got injured, had to leave my job, lost my insurance, and my doctor wouldn't refill my prescription without a doctor's visit, which I couldn't afford.

Once again, nowhere in this study does it say they all or even a significant portion stopped because of regret, or stopped permanently. Also, Lisa Selin Davis is a known terf and transphobe.

I've asked this question several times and really haven't gotten an answer. Will you give it a go?

Presuming you are mtf,, if you were born male, raised male, but then at 8 felt like/identified as a female... how did you know what a female felt like or identified?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

You can roll your eyes all your want. That doesn't refute...
"in one 2021 study published in Frontiers in Psychiatry, for instance, 88 percent of boys with gender dysphoria were found to have desisted by their teens or adulthood (and more than 63 percent were same-sex attracted)."

I did already refute this. Because this does not say regret nor permanent desisting. And even gave an example of something thay would be read as desisting in a study like this. Stopping hormones =/= no longer trans or regret being on them.

I've asked this question several times and really haven't gotten an answer. Will you give it a go?

Presuming you are mtf,, if you were born male, raised male, but then at 8 felt like/identified as a female... how did you know what a female felt like or identified?

I can't recall you ever asking me this, but I'm not trans. I am possibly intersex but PCOS hasn't been added to the DSM for intersex yet so...

The majority of gender affirming care (including puberty blockers, T and E) is done for cis people including cis children.

Also while I can describe what feeling like a woman feels like for me, there is no monolithic answer to this. My version of womanhood is very different than the next woman's.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

And let me add,, I'm glad it worked out well for you. That doesn't mean it will for everyone.

No, but it will for the majority of them, so they shouldn't be limited based on the negative experiences of the very few.

 

[We Never Know]

I did already refute this. Because this does not say regret nor permanent desisting. And even gave an example of something thay would be read as desisting in a study like this. Stopping hormones =/= no longer trans or regret being on them.

I can't recall you ever asking me this, but I'm not trans. I am possibly intersex but PCOS hasn't been added to the DSM for intersex yet so...

The majority of gender affirming care (including puberty blockers, T and E) is done for cis people including cis children.

Also while I can describe what feeling like a woman feels like for me, there is no monolithic answer to this. My version of womanhood is very different than the next woman's.

The study says "88 percent of boys with gender dysphoria were found to have desisted by their teens or adulthood (and more than 63 percent were same-sex attracted)."

I assumed you were trans by "I also was a kid that started on hormones at a young age. 8".

My appoligies.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Well duh!! Which degree did you use to figure that out? Lmao

It seems more like you're struggling with that as you aren't being this zealous regarding procedures with much higher rates of regrets and.complications.

I assumed you were trans by "I also was a kid that started on hormones at a young age. 8".

As I keep saying you're clueless and need to improve your reading comprehension skills.