Questions about Islam

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yet Jesus Pbuh said According to the bible : I came by the sword.

No, He didn't. He said:

34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s foes will be those of his own household. 37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matthew 10:34-38)

It's a metaphor for how not everyone will accept the Gospel and because of this disagreement and discord, people would be set against each other. Those verses are in the context of a chapter that is mainly focusing on Christ warning His followers of the coming persecutions and exhorting them to remain steadfast in their faith.

Matthew 10 RSVCE - The Twelve Apostles - And he called to - Bible Gateway

We could say the same. And say Crusaders follow Jesus words , they too came by the swords.

The Crusades were armed pilgrimages that had the goal of taking back the Holy Land from Muslim invaders and protecting pilgrims. Did the Crusaders do wrong? Sure, they did. They were human and what wrongs they committed are to be condemned. However, what wrongs they did went against their mission. They didn't only do bad, anyway. The Crusades were an effort to protect Christendom. The Middle East and North Africa were Christian before the Muslims invaded those countries.

And this could be proven historically by how violent christians were through the history.
Not only the past, but even today and recent past. George bush a devote christian saying he will do crusade against muslims. I could now say to you: well christianity is not really peaceful religion when someone looks at all these evidences. Or how about Terrorist Brelvik who says to be proud christian? You cant claim to be peaceful catholics when we know how Arians were destroyed by the swords and any christian sect that opposed the belief system of Nicene Creed.

Your attempts at deflecting from Islam's history of violence by beating the dead horse of Christian wrongs will not work with me. Look to the teachings of the religions and you'll see which were being true followers of Christ and who were not. Do the same with your own religion.

The difference between islam and christianity in my humble opinion is really monotheism. Christianity has difficult and unclear version of monotheism. I read stories of converts who said they left the religion because of trinity.

Wrong. We are monotheists. Your ignorance of the Trinity doesn't change that. I could explain the Trinity to you if you want.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

@Saint Frankenstein, Secularism is the only reason why Europe and West is safe today. If it was ruled by Christian law,forget about Muslims & Jews the christian sects themselves would be persecuted.
Please next time when u want to paint christianity as very peaceful religion and islam as very demonic religion u should know your history first.
We have Jesus's saying according to bible( i came by sword). We have Chrstians murdering each other(arians, protestants, catholics) and non-christians. There is terrorist brelvik inspired by his religion. List continues. But still i dont blame christianity. I dont blame any religion. Blaming is not solution.

Keep on deflecting and you'll keep proving me right.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Ohhhh brother. lol

I grew up in the RCC (following the faith, I mean)...I'm well aware of what it teaches. And they have strong armed their way all throughout history, if we want to get down to it, in order to be a...um...$8 billion organization? Yes, that has humble Jesus written all over it.

I don't care if you grew up in it. That doesn't mean you understand it. There's many cradle Catholics who have no idea what they believe.

You do realize that the Church uses that money to help people, right? Do you expect them to be totally broke?

 

[Deidre]

Yes, when Catholics don't like a passage...''it is a metaphor,'' becomes the way to ''explain'' it.

I didn't begin this thread to compete. It's not a competition.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

No, He didn't. He said:

34 “Do not think that I have come to bring peace on earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; 36 and a man’s foes will be those of his own household. 37 He who loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; and he who loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; 38 and he who does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 He who finds his life will lose it, and he who loses his life for my sake will find it. (Matthew 10:34-38)

It's a metaphor for how not everyone will accept the Gospel and because of this disagreement and discord, people would be set against each other. Those verses are in the context of a chapter that is mainly focusing on Christ warning His followers of the coming persecutions and exhorting them to remain steadfast in their faith.

Matthew 10 RSVCE - The Twelve Apostles - And he called to - Bible Gateway



The Crusades were armed pilgrimages that had the goal of taking back the Holy Land from Muslim invaders and protecting pilgrims. Did the Crusaders do wrong? Sure, they did. They were human and what wrongs they committed are to be condemned. However, what wrongs they did went against their mission. They didn't only do bad, anyway. The Crusades were an effort to protect Christendom. The Middle East and North Africa were Christian before the Muslims invaded those countries.





Your attempts at deflecting from Islam's history of violence by beating the dead horse of Christian wrongs will not work with me. Look to the teachings of the religions and you'll see which were being true followers of Christ and who were not. Do the same with your own religion.



Wrong. We are monotheists. Your ignorance of the Trinity doesn't change that. I could explain the Trinity to you if you want.

I beg to differ. Its not metaphor.
It is how it was said.
Metaphor is the opinion of christians, which we respect. But we differ from such opinion. We take the sword quote real the way it was said.


But thats not the discussion. This one side blaming islam, and painting christianity as religion of the peaceful people makes no sense. Its illogical and wrong.

Infact today many muslims see the invasion of muslim countries as new form of crusade. The endless struggle between islam and christianity once again.

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Yes, when Catholics don't like a passage...''it is a metaphor,'' becomes the way to ''explain'' it.

I didn't begin this thread to compete. It's not a competition.

Exacly Deidre.

Anyways that was my last reply. Otherwise your topic will be hijacked. Thats not what we want ofcourse.

 

[Deidre]

I don't care if you grew up in it. That doesn't mean you understand it. There's many cradle Catholics who have no idea what they believe.

You do realize that the Church uses that money to help people, right? Do you expect them to be totally broke?

I understand it. I just choose to not make excuses for it, anymore. If you love the Catholic faith, I'm glad for you. And there is a lot of beauty and robust rituals and traditions that I still hold dear in my heart. But, I know why I left it. You don't need to demean me in order to feel better about your own religion, do you?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Yes, when Catholics don't like a passage...''it is a metaphor,'' becomes the way to ''explain'' it.

I didn't begin this thread to compete. It's not a competition.

No, it's called knowing how to read.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I beg to differ. Its not metaphor.
It is how it was said.
Metaphor is the opinion of christians, which we respect. But we differ from such opinion. We take the sword quote real the way it was said.


But thats not the discussion. This one side blaming islam, and painting christianity as religion of the peaceful people makes no sense. Its illogical and wrong.

Infact today many muslims see the invasion of muslim countries as new form of crusade. The endless struggle between islam and christianity once again.

Sorry that metaphor and allegory don't make any sense to you. No wonder you don't understand Christianity. The Qur'an sounds like the perfect book for you.

 

[Deidre]

No, it's called knowing how to read.

Yes, that's why the Pope takes the reigns from everyone, and tells his flock how to interpret the Bible. lol Because the flock can't be trusted on its own to read it for face value. Believe as you wish.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Hardly. Islam and Christianity are very, very different. I could go on and on about how different they are.

I'm sure you could .. that's the main problem .. satan only wishes to divide us.
We are both believers in Almighty God .. we both believe that He is Eternal .. we both believe in the truth of the Bible .. we both believe in life after death etc.

..but just as the Jews reject Jesus, you reject Muhammad, peace be with them. I'm not looking to make an issue of it, but most Christians do! They even go as far as to suggest that our 'God' is not their God. Somehow Allah becomes a 'false god' .. Silly! Yahweh (Jehovah) is our God too!

 

[Deidre]

Sorry that metaphor and allegory don't make any sense to you. No wonder you don't understand Christianity. The Qur'an sounds like the perfect book for you.

Why are you being rude? I don't get it at all.
You asked me why I left the RCC, and I was very open with you yesterday about it. Not to be insulted in return. If you dislike Islam, I don't accuse you of not understanding it. It just isn't your spiritual path.

Perhaps you should take a page out of Jesus' book: And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, as ye go forth out of that house or that city, shake off the dust of your feet. (Matthew 10:14)

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Deidre if and when u accept islam, may Allah strengthen your faith. You will be tested. Satan will not leave you alone.

We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient.

[Quran 7:17] (satan)"I will come to them from beforethem, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left, and You will find that most of them are unappreciative."

 

[Deidre]

Deidre if and when u accept islam, may Allah strengthen your faith. You will be tested. Satan will not leave you alone.

We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient.

[Quran 7:17] (satan)"I will come to them from beforethem, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left, and You will find that most of them are unappreciative."

{{thank you}} Not sure if I'd call it an outside force, as much as religion sometimes tends to divide. It has that element to it that causes people to feel defensive. I've been guilty of it, myself. Just this week alone of praying, I've felt great joy and peace, and while I have a good life, this has made it better. Our own experiences with and because of Islam, can't be found in any texts. It's found in our hearts.

 

[Deidre]

Is there some respectful, gentle way to grab your head and shake it up, Shahz? I swear, I feel like it right now.

Can't you see how rude you are being with Deidre by making that comparison? It is not like she has insulted or been rude to you. Is it so hard to return the favor?

If what you mean is that you fear that she may be approaching dangerous beliefs, fair enough. I somewhat share that worry - although I will also say that I have faith that Deidre will know better than to become that what she was victim of. She seems plenty smart enough.

(No, I am not hitting on you, Deidre. It just looks like I am. I think. Anyway, never mind me. Let's go on.)

The bottom line is that Deidre has told us that she wishes she were not pressured into certain beliefs back in the day. I don't think it is wrong or too much to cooperate with her desire not to be pressured out of/into beliefs now, either.

Besides, if you want to help her and for whatever reason don't quite trust her to deal with the possible dangers on her own, I don't think comparing what she sympathises with neo Nazis is exactly helping your case.

Just to point out the obvious, her perception of Islam is not necessarily similar to others.

I saw this the other day, and meant to reply...thank you for this. I have a lot to learn about Islam, but I've decided to lessen the questions here with it all, and discuss them with people who practice the religion, in a peaceful, positive way. I'm going to just go about it that way, and see where the path leads.

Sadly, two good friends of mine who are atheists, have ignored my phone calls and texts, after we had a discussion about Islam, and my interest in it. They talked to me as though I was insane, and said some nasty remarks...now are ignoring me.

If you wish to learn who your friends are, leave their respective faith, or convert to a faith they disprove of...you may not like the outcome. I've never dumped a friend over a religious choice. What is wrong with everyone these days?

 

[LuisDantas]

Sadly, two good friends of mine who are atheists, have ignored my phone calls and texts, after we had a discussion about Islam, and my interest in it. They talked to me as though I was insane, and said some nasty remarks...now are ignoring me.

If you wish to learn who your friends are, leave their respective faith, or convert to a faith they disprove of...you may not like the outcome. I've never dumped a friend over a religious choice. What is wrong with everyone these days?

I can relate to them, at least somewhat. It is not even unconceivable that they think you raised the matter of Islam as a way of telling them to keep their distance, although this is of course a wild guess of mine. It depends quite a lot on how easily you spoke about those matters previously.

Religions, after all, are about values and goals, and in most contexts sympathies for Islam are simply not encouraging for us atheists.

 

[Deidre]

I can relate to them, at least somewhat. It is not even unconceivable that they think you raised the matter of Islam as a way of telling them to keep their distance, although this is of course a wild guess of mine. It depends quite a lot on how easily you spoke about those matters previously.

Religions, after all, are about values and goals, and in most contexts sympathies for Islam are simply not encouraging for us atheists.

Above all, I'm their friend, and have been there for them...always, as they have for me. This should not change that. And it is sad that it would for some.

 

[LuisDantas]

Above all, I'm their friend, and have been there for them...always, as they have for me. This should not change that. And it is sad that it would for some.

That is certainly nice to know. I can only guess that for whatever reason they have failed to understand that.

But let me tell you something, Deidre: actual understanding by other people is a rare and precious gift. And one of the consequences is that you should value it, but hold little hope of attaining it at all often without considerable work and effort.

I am not ruling out that they are simply being bigoted or prejudiced. I can't tell whether that is the case, of course, since I don't know them. But the best cure for bigotry and prejudice that I am aware of is actual direct interaction.

For some people, "Islam" is basically a shortcut for positive things such as faith, devotion and equal acceptance of everyone. For others, it may well mean something else, fairly or otherwise.

I do wish to talk more about this, but I probably should not. I have a tendency to try to guess too much about the circunstances of other people's communications, and those are very significant in this situation.

 

[Deidre]

That is certainly nice to know. I can only guess that for whatever reason they have failed to understand that.

But let me tell you something, Deidre: actual understanding by other people is a rare and precious gift. And one of the consequences is that you should value it, but hold little hope of attaining it at all often without considerable work and effort.

I'm not sure I follow? I should put considerable effort in getting them to understand? I shared it with them as they are my friends, but to me it is a non-issue. I'm not asking them to explore it with me, then that would be different. But I'm not sure if you were thinking along these lines. lol

 

[LuisDantas]

I'm not sure I follow? I should put considerable effort in getting them to understand?

This I just don't know. I lack the necessary information.

I do know that you are a reasonable person and that they are failing to understand that this has not changed.

Why exactly they did, and whether it is worthwhile for you to do anything about that, I have little way of knowing or even of guessing.

I shared it with them as they are my friends, but to me it is a non-issue.

Clearly so. To me, anyway. Apparently not for them.

Unless you are mistaken about their avoiding you now, it seems reasonable to assume that, fairly or otherwise, they do see it as an issue. They may be reading too much into your sympathies for Islam. They may hold unreasonable assumptions or expectations. It is even possible that it is just a coincidence, or that they have some issue or issues of their own to deal with at this moment, perhaps utterly unrelated to you.

I just don't know.

I'm not asking them to explore it with me, then that would be different. But I'm not sure if you were thinking along these lines. lol

No, I wasn't. But as an atheist I know that, without an established framework of mutual trust and ease of communication, hearing that a friend of mine that considered herself an atheist is now talking about her sympathy for Islam may well mean that she wants me to keep a reasonable distance for the time being. Or, at least, that she does not want me to talk much of atheism right now.

Sorry for being so unespecific. There is only so far I dare to go while guessing about people I do not know.