Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

[TransmutingSoul]

God has some answering to do, that’s for sure. I know that is illogical as I say it because an omnipotent God is not answerable to anyone, but I have been mad at God for the last week.

What I have found, is that we have to understand where all the turmoil comes from. We are the source of all our turmoil. God offers naught but Love, Justice and Mercy.

It is seen in this biblical passage;

Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things"

A Human is at the beginning, we contain the potential of all the light, if we let it shine, if we do not we are the darkness. All this is a bounty to us, we can learn from all of it.

Peace be with you.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Islam has the Koran.

I think what was meant, is that the Koran was not penned by Muhammad. It was dictated.

Peace be with you

 

[Bird123]

Is there any reason to think that God, if God exists, would want 100% of people in the world to believe in Him?

If God wanted everyone to believe in Him, what do you think God would do in order to accomplish that?

Do you think that God can show up on earth? If so, how would God do that?

Believing has never ever been important for God. On the other hand, religion can not exist without beliefs. That is why they teach people to value beliefs above all else.

There is evidence of God and Great Intelligence in almost everything in this world. One only need not be blind of it.

God would never restrict Himself to the limitations of this physical world. If God were to visit you, it will be Spiritually.

 

[ChristineM]

Believing has never ever been important for God. On the other hand, religion can not exist without beliefs. That is why they teach people to value beliefs above all else.

There is evidence of God and Great Intelligence in almost everything in this world. One only need not be blind of it.

God would never restrict Himself to the limitations of this physical world. If God were to visit you, it will be Spiritually.

Evidence doesnt work like that. If its evidence its evidenc e for all otherwise its just opinion

 

[ecco]

There is evidence of God and Great Intelligence in almost everything in this world. One only need not be blind of it.

Investigating, finding nothing, and rejecting is not being blind. Investigating, finding nothing, and rejecting is being rational.

 

[Willamena]

Investigating, finding nothing, and rejecting is not being blind. Investigating, finding nothing, and rejecting is being rational.

Exactly.

A lot, though, depends on the hypothesis.

 

[Trailblazer]

I dunno, they could all be talking about sexual prohibitions and you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Why are most religions so negatively obsessed with sex?

Many religions have certain laws that are similar but they are not exactly the same.
I do not know about all the others but the Baha’i Faith is not negatively obsessed with sex. Although Baha’i Law permits sexual relations only between a man and wife, we do not expect anyone who is not a Baha’i to adhere to Baha’i Laws.

Very, very few Christians take all of the NT and the OT as absolute truth. The vast majority pick and choose. Do you take all the writings of Baha'i as absolute, unquestionable truth?

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah was infallible so we believe the Writings of Baha’u’llah are absolute truth. Because infallibility was conferred to Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi by Covenant of Baha’u’llah, we believe their Writings are not to be questioned.

God has some answering to do, that’s for sure. I know that is illogical as I say it because an omnipotent God is not answerable to anyone, but I have been mad at God for the last week.

That's something atheist never have to go through.

I am pretty jealous.
I tried to become an atheist but it didn’t work because I cannot refute Baha’u’llah.

 

[Trailblazer]

No religion preceding the Baha’i Faith has original scriptures written by a Messenger of God (Prophet).

Islam has the Koran.

They do, but Muhammad did not write the Koran because He was illiterate.

Surely the Golden Tablets delivered by the angel moroni must quality as "word of god" and Joseph Smith as a true Messenger.

No, they don’t qualify.

If people trust their own intellectual abilities, there is really no way they can get duped.

I guess you never heard of Bernie Madoff or Donald Trump.

You have a good point.

 

[Trailblazer]

What I have found, is that we have to understand where all the turmoil comes from. We are the source of all our turmoil. God offers naught but Love, Justice and Mercy.
It is seen in this biblical passage;
Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things".

If God creates darkness and creates disaster how can we be the source of all our turmoil?

 

[Trailblazer]

Evidence doesnt work like that. If its evidence its evidence for all otherwise its just opinion

Why would evidence be evidence for all?
How could evidence be evidence for all unless all people thought exactly the same way about the evidence?
Why would everyone think the same way about the evidence if everyone was not the same?
Why do you think there is a standard set of evidence that everyone would believe in?
The only way that could ever happen is if God revealed Himself directly to everyone in an unmistakable fashion and became the evidence.

 

[Trailblazer]

Investigating, finding nothing, and rejecting is not being blind. Investigating, finding nothing, and rejecting is being rational.

We do not all see the same things because we are all different.
A believer should not expect an atheist to see what they see, just because it is obvious to the believer.
However, they cannot see what they never even looked at.

“If a man were to declare, ‘There is a lamp in the next room which gives no light’, one hearer might be satisfied with his report, but a wiser man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, when he finds the light shining brilliantly in the lamp, he knows the truth!” Paris Talks, p. 103

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If God creates darkness and creates disaster how can we be the source of all our turmoil?

Good Question

The use of free will. As stated above we are created with the potential of all light within us, to which only education and connection to the Spirit can bring it out fully from us.

I found this from Abdul'baha;

"...Ye observe to what a degree the world is in continual turmoil and conflict, and to what a pass its nations have now come. Perchance will the lovers of God succeed in upraising the banner of human unity, so that the one-coloured tabernacle of the Kingdom of Heaven will cast its sheltering shadow over all the earth; that misunderstandings among the world's peoples will vanish away; that all nations will mingle one with another, dealing with one another even as the lover with his beloved." Abdu'l-Baha : Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha

Notice the more we bring out the good qualities within us, the more the turmoil in the world will be dissipated.

I see this one also says the same;

"...Man reacheth perfection through good deeds, voluntarily performed, not through good deeds the doing of which was forced upon him. And sharing is a personally chosen righteous act: that is, the rich should extend assistance to the poor, they should expend their substance for the poor, but of their own free will, and not because the poor have gained this end by force. For the harvest of force is turmoil and the ruin of the social order. On the other hand voluntary sharing, the freely-chosen expending of one's substance, leadeth to society's comfort and peace. It lighteth up the world; it bestoweth honour upon humankind." Abdu'l-Baha : Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha

Peace be upon you always

 

[Trailblazer]

We know nothing of the sort. You, in fact, have and will continue to demonstrate the exact opposite via your formerly atheist friend who had a sign. I will continue to keep a completely open mind when it comes to God's methods of communication because I can't possibly know anything about it until it actually happens. With the notable exception of dismissing those that claim to know what God wants without ever successfully qualifying their right to do so let alone their ability.

God doeth whatsoever He willeth so it is good to keep an open mind.

I do not believe God communicates to anyone but Messengers, but God can give people signs and there is evidence of that.

Messengers of God have successfully qualified their right to know what God wants as well as their ability to know.

Is that metaphorical cell phone going to remain broken then?

It is not broken but God won’t pick it up and use it again until at least 2852 A.D.

You sure seem to be keen on telling God what it won't do.

I don’t tell God what it won’t do, I just know what God won’t do.

God needs me. Can't speak for the rest of you.

Why do you think God needs you?

That is true but it is not circular reasoning.
It is though, because it is the Messenger telling you he is the messenger and qualifying that he is the messenger by saying that God only speaks to messengers and the messengers say they are messengers so they are not wrong about being messengers because they are messengers and messengers can't be wrong because they speak for God and God told them they were messengers so that can't be wrong either. Did I get all of that?

That was cute and comprehensive, but that is not what Messengers do. They have evidence to back up their claims to be Messengers so it is not circular reasoning. I do not believe anyone is a Messenger just because they said they were a Messenger. That would be circular reasoning although it still could be true that they were a Messenger.

Oh I see a text message as opposed to a 'real' message. I'm sorry but I still see this as the exact opposite of what you've been saying all along. Giving an atheist a sign that God exists is pretty far and away from 'God only communicates through messengers' it seems pretty well tailored to be quite Francois about it.

Forget the text message analogy. I was just trying to be cute. A sign is a sign and comes with no message. The Messenger hears a Voice. Nobody else hears the Voice of God through the Holy Spirit.

These tech analogies are really not helping your position, honestly.

I gathered that, but you did make me laugh. I needed some comic relief after what the atheists have put me through all day on another forum.

 

[ChristineM]

Why would evidence be evidence for all?
How could evidence be evidence for all unless all people thought exactly the same way about the evidence?
Why would everyone think the same way about the evidence if everyone was not the same?
Why do you think there is a standard set of evidence that everyone would believe in?
The only way that could ever happen is if God revealed Himself directly to everyone in an unmistakable fashion and became the evidence.

Because evidence is based on facts.

A fact is known or proved to be true.

Of course there will always be odd balls all over the globe who believe the earth is flat. Their beliefs do not alter the evidence.

So... Waiting, as billions of people over thousands of years have been waiting.

 

[ecco]

I dunno, they could all be talking about sexual prohibitions and you wouldn't be able to tell them apart. Why are most religions so negatively obsessed with sex?

I do not know about all the others but the Baha’i Faith is not negatively obsessed with sex. Although Baha’i Law permits sexual relations only between a man and wife...

So, like most other religions Baha’i Law permits sexual relations only between a man and wife.

Why so uptight? Does Baha’i teach that life is just black and white? Does Baha’i not recognize there are many shades of gray between?

Does Baha’i not recognize homosexuals, bi-sexuals, transgenders?

Very, very few Christians take all of the NT and the OT as absolute truth. The vast majority pick and choose. Do you take all the writings of Baha'i as absolute, unquestionable truth?

Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah was infallible so we believe the Writings of Baha’u’llah are absolute truth. Because infallibility was conferred to Abdu’l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi by Covenant of Baha’u’llah, we believe their Writings are not to be questioned.

Again, that's pretty much the same as is taught by all other religions. The bible is the absolute truth of god; the Koran is the absolute truth of Allah.

All different absolute truths.
All different absolute truths.

I tried to become an atheist but it didn’t work because I cannot refute Baha’u’llah.

Why would you try to become an atheist?

 

[ecco]

They do, but Muhammad did not write the Koran because He was illiterate.

Many believe that is exactly why the Koran must be believed - the only way an illiterate man could write to Koran is through the divine guidance of Allah.

RE: JW Golden Tablets

No, they don’t qualify.

That's a bold assertion with nothing to back it up. Anyone can say the Baha'i writings "don't qualify". Does that mean they are worthless as scripture?

 

[ecco]

We do not all see the same things because we are all different.
A believer should not expect an atheist to see what they see, just because it is obvious to the believer.
However, they cannot see what they never even looked at.

“If a man were to declare, ‘There is a lamp in the next room which gives no light’, one hearer might be satisfied with his report, but a wiser man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, when he finds the light shining brilliantly in the lamp, he knows the truth!” Paris Talks, p. 103

A man declares ‘There is an unplugged lamp in a room which gives gives off a bright light’ . The wise man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, he sees the unplugged lamp gives off no light.

Another man declares ‘There is an unplugged lamp in a room which gives gives off a bright light’ . The wise man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, he sees the unplugged lamp gives off no light, he begins to suspect the truth!

Another man declares ‘There is an unplugged lamp in a room which gives gives off a bright light’ . The wise man goes into the room to judge for himself, and behold, he sees the unplugged lamp gives off no light, he knows the truth!

Another man declares ‘There is an unplugged lamp in a room which gives gives off a bright light’ .
The wise man is not so foolish as to look again.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because evidence is based on facts.

A fact is known or proved to be true.

Of course there will always be odd balls all over the globe who believe the earth is flat. Their beliefs do not alter the evidence.

Okay, I understand now. Once something has been established as a fact, such as the fact that the earth is round, it has been proven, so almost everyone except a few really strange people accept it as a fact.

So... Waiting, as billions of people over thousands of years have been waiting.

Do you mean you are waiting for God to be established as a fact?
The only way that God could ever be established as a fact is if God established it but given God's track record since the dawn of human history, I don't think that will ever happen.

You could join the Christians though... Many of them believe that Jesus is coming down from the clouds for all to see... If that happened, that would pretty much establish that God is a fact.
It gives you something to hope for anyway... if you are able to believe in fantasies.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Because evidence is based on facts.

A fact is known or proved to be true.

Of course there will always be odd balls all over the globe who believe the earth is flat. Their beliefs do not alter the evidence.

So... Waiting, as billions of people over thousands of years have been waiting.

Yes many waiting. I came across this about waiting in this day;

"...They confidently assert that such traditions as indicate the advent of the expected Qá’im have not yet been fulfilled, whilst they themselves have failed to inhale the fragrance of the meaning of these traditions, and are still oblivious of the fact that all the signs foretold have come to pass, that the way of God’s holy Cause hath been revealed, and the concourse of the faithful, swift as lightning, are, even now, passing upon that way, whilst these foolish divines wait expecting to witness the signs foretold. Say, O ye foolish ones! Wait ye even as those before you are waiting!"

That quote is from Baha'u'llah.

Peace be with you

 

[ChristineM]

Okay, I understand now. Once something has been established as a fact, such as the fact that the earth is round, it has been proven, so almost everyone except a few really strange people accept it as a fact.

Do you mean you are waiting for God to be established as a fact?
The only way that God could ever be established as a fact is if God established it but given God's track record since the dawn of human history, I don't think that will ever happen.

You could join the Christians though... Many of them believe that Jesus is coming down from the clouds for all to see... If that happened, that would pretty much establish that God is a fact.
It gives you something to hope for anyway... if you are able to believe in fantasies.

Correct

Well, there lies a problem

Proselytizing is not allowed
Why do i need hope when i have reality?