• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Questions for Atheists and Agnostics

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Don't you Understand? It doesn't matter what you choose. You will Discover the Best Choices through the Process. On the other hand, making the most intelligence choices one can is always a good thing. It prevents many hard lessons one can choose for themselves.

The best choices in life are in giving your whole life to serving others, with no thought of self.

How many freely choose that path?

Thus the best examples of this way of life, are those that gave a Message from God. They prove who they are by living what they preach.

Peace be with you
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
No doubt you are too comfortable within your box of beliefs. You wall yourself from the real truth by defining and living within the walls created by I can't or nobody can. As a result, you will never discover the real truth until the need is greater than your desire for comfort.
The “real Truth” is contained in the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. It has nothing to do with comfort, it has to do with reality. No human being can discover “the Real Truth” from God on their own. It is a fool’s errand. God is forever hidden from our view. We can only know anything about God from what the Messengers of God reveal. That is why they are called “Messengers.”
If you look around you and see, all knowledge had to be discovered. All future knowledge will have to be discovered.
Sure, we can discover lots of things, there is no limit to what humans can discover, but we cannot discover God by “looking around.” That is not even logical because when we look around we can ascribe things to God that have nothing to do with God.
Since interaction is key to learning, our interaction is the only message God sends. WE are all messengers.
We can learn about ourselves through interaction but we cannot learn about God through interaction.
My interaction with God was not to tell me what to do but to confirm what I have Discovered through much study and effort to Understand God through God's actions. There is no fantasy. I do not have the capability to create such an experience.
Nobody interacts with God except Messengers of God. I consider that a fantasy. Nobody knows God’s actions except Messengers of God. God is forever hidden from human view.
God is not raising sheep to blindly follow others. God is raising children capable of standing on their own two feet.
God wants us to stand on their own two feet with the assistance of what the Messenger revealed to guide us to the straight path.
God does not directly interact but with a few simply because God does not want to intimidate your choices. If God does not want to intimidate your choices, why do you think God would send you messengers to do just that?
God does not directly interact with anyone except His Messengers:

“Immeasurably exalted is He above the strivings of human mind to grasp His Essence, or of human tongue to describe His mystery.No tie of direct intercourse can ever bind Him to the things He hath created, nor can the most abstruse and most remote allusions of His creatures do justice to His being. Through His world-pervading Will He hath brought into being all created things. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His own exalted and indivisible Essence, and will everlastingly continue to remain concealed in His inaccessible majesty and glory. All that is in heaven and all that is in the earth have come to exist at His bidding, and by His Will all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being. How can, therefore, the creature which the Word of God hath fashioned comprehend the nature of Him Who is the Ancient of Days?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 317-318
Hold strong to your Beliefs, however a day will come when the Real Truth will become more valuable to you.
Hold strong to your beliefs; maybe a day will come when the Real Truth will become more valuable to you, or maybe not.
The knowledge exists around us all just waiting for those ready to Discover it.
Yes, scientific knowledge is waiting to be discovered by humans. That is why we have a brain. But knowledge of God is not discovered, it is revealed by God through Messengers.
Finally, God is at a much Higher Level than mankind. God is not trying to control you as mankind does. There are so much better ways.
That is sure true. God is at a much higher level than humans, which is why God is completely out of our reach.

“I am moved to testify that Thy court of holiness and glory is immeasurably exalted above the knowledge of all else besides Thee, and the mystery of Thy Presence is inscrutable to every mind except Thine own. No one except Thyself can unravel the secret of Thy nature, and naught else but Thy transcendental Essence can grasp the reality of Thy unsearchable being. How vast the number of those heavenly and all-glorious beings who, in the wilderness of their separation from Thee, have wandered all the days of their lives, and failed in the end to find Thee! How great the multitude of the sanctified and immortal souls who were lost and bewildered while seeking in the desert of search to behold Thy face!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 64
 
Last edited:

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Sounds like he needs some more effective messengers, then.
No, more humans need to take off their blinders and put on their glasses. One cannot blame the Messenger because humans reject Him by virtue of their own free will. Every single Messenger was rejected when He appeared and for a long time afterwards, history demonstrates this.
BTW: why would an omnipotent god ever have reason to be fed up? If he doesn't like how things are, he has the power to make them however he wants.
Sure He has the power, but God does not interfere with human free will...
Besides that, God does not need anything for Himself, He wants it only for our sake, so God will wait until things get bad enough such that more people realize that they need what Baha’u’llah brought. Then they will wake up and smell the coffee and recognize Baha’u’llah on their own, by virtue of their own free will. We Baha’is know that day is coming because Baha’u’llah said it was coming, but we do not know when or how it will unfold. Only God knows when and how since God is Omniscient.

“Warn and acquaint the people, O Servant, with the things We have sent down unto Thee, and let the fear of no one dismay Thee, and be Thou not of them that waver. The day is approaching when God will have exalted His Cause and magnified His testimony in the eyes of all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 248
Also: weren't you the one who complained about other people claiming to know the mind of God?
I said “He is probably getting pretty fed up about now” which I said in gest. What I said is based upon what Baha’u’llah wrote; if Baha’u’llah wrote something about God we can know that is the will of God because the will of Baha’u’llah is identical with the will of God....

I cannot know what God is thinking right now, but I can know what God was thinking when He communicated the following to Baha’u’llah... These are clues that God is probably fed up (e.g., fury of His wrath):

“He Who is the Eternal Truth knoweth well what the breasts of men conceal. His long forbearance hath emboldened His creatures, for not until the appointed time is come will He rend any veil asunder. His surpassing mercy hath restrained the fury of His wrath, and caused most people to imagine that the one true God is unaware of the things they have privily committed. By Him Who is the All-Knowing, the All-Informed! The mirror of His knowledge reflecteth, with complete distinctness, precision and fidelity, the doings of all men.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 204

God is giving us a chance to turn towards Him by recognizing Baha’u’llah and following His instructions, but God is not going to wait forever:

“We have a fixed time for you, O peoples. If ye fail, at the appointed hour, to turn towards God, He, verily, will lay violent hold on you, and will cause grievous afflictions to assail you from every direction. How severe, indeed, is the chastisement with which your Lord will then chastise you!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 214

From the passage below, it sure sounds like God is going to use some of that power to intervene, at which time God will cause something to happen:

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake.Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 118-119

Nobody knows when the appointed hour will come or what will happen when it comes. It could happen within our lifetime or it could happen in the distant future. Baha’is have been conjecturing about this for eons.We call it “the calamities.”
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
your quote: God is inerrant so God does not make errors. Followers of religion are human so they can and do make errors.

My Answer: This does not add up. Is it not an error to allow others to mess up the religion God is supposed to want people to have? See, you are giving me more stories and beliefs that do not add up.
God does not interfere with human free will in order to prevent humans from making errors. God rather allows humans to learn from their mistakes. The road is long, the path is difficult to tread, and the lesson is hard to learn, but mankind will learn eventually.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
your quote;that god poofed the earth and heavens out of nothing by magic. My Answer: Poof creation is not Reality. You underestimate God's Intelligence. How about considering this: God created the universe to unfold in such a way, mankind , given enough time, will be able to figure it all out. The knowledge waits around us all for those who can Discover it.

So you are capable of understanding gods mind? Wow, im betting he thinks exactly like you do.


your quote;So you dont have anything that can validate your claims such as evidence, fair enough, good of you to be so honest. My Answer: No! No! No! I will not serve it up as religion does trying to convince you to believe. If you want proof, take your journey to Discover. If you do not want proof, do nothing. I'll be just as happy. This isn't about beliefs.

"Will not" or "cannot"??? Be honest with yourself

your quote:You make claims, the burden of proof is with you. Without validation of your claims how am i to know you are not making up nonsense just to waist my time. It is a question of credibility and as you are so fond of saying, 'you just dont get it do you?' My Answer: Say you are walking lost in a desert. You have been wandering for days. You come across me in your travels. I tell you that there is a city two miles west after climbing a large hill. You tell me prove it that you do not want me to waste your time. You are right. It is your time to choose. Your Journey has Never been up to me. On the other hand, isn't it easier to Discover something after someone else has already discovered it. Seek what you want. You can Discover the Proof for yourself.

So you are not willing to provide evidence for your claims so offer a strawman based on ignorance of the human condition?
... Be honest

your quote;Your opinion is noted. What you seem to be saying is, the only evidence you have is pretend and non real. My Answer; Surely your view is wider than this.

Projection
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Trailblazer
"post a link and hope the readers will not take the time to actually read the article."
How do you know what I am hoping for? I hope for nothing. This is not a game for me, win or lose. I am not trying to prove anything. If what I say is not supported by research I want to know that. I do not need to be right. I like being wrong because then I learn something when I find out what is right.

I do not consider it lazy to post a link to an article for others to read before reading it thoroughly. It is hardly lazy when one has over 30 posts to answer and spends the entire day and night answering them. It is a higher priority for me to respond to posts than read articles.​
Actually he had a point. When citing an article it is always a good idea to quote a phrase from it, in context of course, and then linking it.
It also makes sense to read the article before posting a link to it.
That way the poster knows that it supports their viewpoint.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Trailblazer
"post a link and hope the readers will not take the time to actually read the article."
How do you know what I am hoping for? I hope for nothing. This is not a game for me, win or lose. I am not trying to prove anything. If what I say is not supported by research I want to know that. I do not need to be right. I like being wrong because then I learn something when I find out what is right.

I do not consider it lazy to post a link to an article for others to read before reading it thoroughly. It is hardly lazy when one has over 30 posts to answer and spends the entire day and night answering them. It is a higher priority for me to respond to posts than read articles.​
It also makes sense to read the article before posting a link to it.
That way the poster knows that it supports their viewpoint.
Yes, I have seen that far too often. People post articles on headline alone when the body of the article refutes their claims.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Fair enough, I leave you with what I commented on from your remarks, which was;

"...Do you really think men have multiple wives for altruistic reasons? If you do you understand very little about the nature of men...."

I would note what nature other than altruistic, would you offer!

Peace be with you

Because men like to have sex with multiple partners. This is a benefit usually provided to the highest ranking members of the "tribe".

Is altruism the reason Allah offers 72 virgins to myrtars?
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Because men like to have sex with multiple partners. This is a benefit usually provided to the highest ranking members of the "tribe".

Is altruism the reason Allah offers 72 virgins to myrtars?

We live in a different time where the law is for one partner. We can not judge others when they lived to the law in the age they lived in and no one can judge their motives.

Spiritual Metephors are just that and are not to be seen as a material depravity. One must ask themselves, why they would see it in that way?

Virginity is a purity, untouched. Thus this would be a purity of spirit untouched by materialistic burden. Also note women have also been martyrs and they share the same promise.

Peace be with you
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
We live in a different time where the law is for one partner. We can not judge others when they lived to the law in the age they lived in and no one can judge their motives.

Spiritual Metephors are just that and are not to be seen as a material depravity. One must ask themselves, why they would see it in that way?

Virginity is a purity, untouched. Thus this would be a purity of spirit untouched by materialistic burden. Also note women have also been martyrs and they share the same promise.

Peace be with you
When did that law change? I must have missed that.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Ask a scientist today, they will tell you it's about the need to know or the need to overcome an adversity. They are not concerned with God. They want to Discover what actually is. I know you do not think this is true,

Actually, I think that that is absolutely true.


however wanting to Discover what actually is leads to God.
Is that why you felt it necessary to capitalize the "d" in "Discovery? Because you are talking about the "Discovery" of God? How would scientists Discover that God created everything last Thursday?



I cannot confirm you have a Spiritual Self. You just might be a computer program giving random answers. On the other hand, by asking me what makes you think you have a Spiritual Self tells me that if you are a person you do not know for yourself.
Actually, I asked: "What makes you think I have a spiritual self?" I should extend that to What is a "Spiritual Self".

Do you want to explore the possibilities? How about this? Find a dark, quiet comfortable room free of any distractions. Sit quietly and focus inward. Don't rush this. Say to yourself. It's ME. Are you sure you do not know who you are?
I know who I am. You must have a problem understanding what I write.

How about this? Seek out the very youngest of people. At a very very early age, some can clearly tell the difference from who they really are and their physical bodies. They must be very young since I have found that there is so much sensory input that it isn't long before one is seduced into thinking the physical is all there is.

So, I asked a two year old if she could "tell the difference from who she really is and her physical body." I was rewarded with a blank stare.

I asked a seven year old if she could "tell the difference from who she really is and her physical body." She replied "You're funny".

I asked a seventeen year old if she could "tell the difference from who she really is and her physical body." She said "Go away creep".

I think if you work on this, you have the ability to Discover who you really are. Who knows. If you open that door, it might lead you to others you can open.

What have I written about myself that leads you to the conclusion that I need to Discover who I am or that I'm trying to figure out how to open a door?
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Yes, I have seen that far too often. People post articles on headline alone when the body of the article refutes their claims.
They're hoping no one will actually bother to read their BS articles. Usually I don't. However, when I do I usually find that the articles are from highly biased people/organizations or the article really doesn't support the poster's views.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
Fair enough, I leave you with what I commented on from your remarks, which was;

"...Do you really think men have multiple wives for altruistic reasons? If you do you understand very little about the nature of men...."

I would note what nature other than altruistic, would you offer!

Because men like to have sex with multiple partners. This is a benefit usually provided to the highest ranking members of the "tribe".

Is altruism the reason Allah offers 72 virgins to myrtars?

We live in a different time where the law is for one partner. We can not judge others when they lived to the law in the age they lived in and no one can judge their motives.

You were inferring that men taking multiple wives was an act of altruism. Now you say - times have changed, we cannot judge.

Nonsense. The primary reason men take multiple wives is, and always has been, because men like to have sex with multiple partners.


Spiritual Metephors are just that and are not to be seen as a material depravity. One must ask themselves, why they would see it in that way?
Huh?

Virginity is a purity, untouched. Thus this would be a purity of spirit untouched by materialistic burden.
More nonsense. Checking for an intact hymen does nothing to ensure "spiritual purity". Some men think is important to be first.

RE: 72 virgins
Also note women have also been martyrs and they share the same promise.
Really? Please quote the Sura that specifies that.

Here is an article that goes into detail of what dead females get in Allah's heaven. For modesty's sake I'll only post a small portion.

Do female suicide bombers get 72 virgins too?

If male martyrs can expect to find 72 virgin maidens in paradise when they die, what rewards can female suicide bombers expect?

Their husbands.

Ninth-century scholar Al-Tabarani did argue that women will be reunited with their husbands in the next world, and those who had multiple husbands can pick the best one to be their eternal spouse. (Other commentators added that a woman who never married can marry any man she wants in paradise.)

 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
The best choices in life are in giving your whole life to serving others, with no thought of self.

How many freely choose that path?

Thus the best examples of this way of life, are those that gave a Message from God. They prove who they are by living what they preach.

Peace be with you

If you follow those claiming to be messengers of God, you are learning who they are, not God. As I see it, God does not want anyone following. God wants people to Discover for themselves rather than rely on mere Beliefs.

When you start to really Understand God, you will start to see that mankind values so many petty things that God does not. God is truly at a Higher Level. You will see these petty things coming out even in the holy books so many claim are from God. They are NOT from God. They are mankind's Beliefs of what they think God should be. God needs no middle men.

your quote:How many freely choose that path? My Answer. It doesn't matter what everyone else is doing. It's what you choose to do that counts. Be very careful not to allow the actions of others to convince you to hate. Religions invite the WE and THEY. In time, everyone will Discover for themselves that the price for hate is always too high.

Look around you. God's actions can be seen. In time, you will Discover it has never ever been about Beliefs, Sin, Hell, or even Punishment. I'm afraid for many, it will take much time to overcome some of those petty things people hold onto for dear life especially when many teach this stuff comes from God.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
The “real Truth” is contained in the Revelation of Baha’u’llah. It has nothing to do with comfort, it has to do with reality. No human being can discover “the Real Truth” from God on their own. It is a fool’s errand. God is forever hidden from our view. We can only know anything about God from what the Messengers of God reveal. That is why they are called “Messengers.”

Sure, we can discover lots of things, there is no limit to what humans can discover, but we cannot discover God by “looking around.” That is not even logical because when we look around we can ascribe things to God that have nothing to do with God.

We can learn about ourselves through interaction but we cannot learn about God through interaction.

Nobody interacts with God except Messengers of God. I consider that a fantasy. Nobody knows God’s actions except Messengers of God. God is forever hidden from human view.

God wants us to stand on their own two feet with the assistance of what the Messenger revealed to guide us to the straight path.

God does not directly interact with anyone except His Messengers:

“Immeasurably exalted is He above the strivings of human mind to grasp His Essence, or of human tongue to describe His mystery.No tie of direct intercourse can ever bind Him to the things He hath created, nor can the most abstruse and most remote allusions of His creatures do justice to His being. Through His world-pervading Will He hath brought into being all created things. He is and hath ever been veiled in the ancient eternity of His own exalted and indivisible Essence, and will everlastingly continue to remain concealed in His inaccessible majesty and glory. All that is in heaven and all that is in the earth have come to exist at His bidding, and by His Will all have stepped out of utter nothingness into the realm of being. How can, therefore, the creature which the Word of God hath fashioned comprehend the nature of Him Who is the Ancient of Days?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 317-318

Hold strong to your beliefs; maybe a day will come when the Real Truth will become more valuable to you, or maybe not.

Yes, scientific knowledge is waiting to be discovered by humans. That is why we have a brain. But knowledge of God is not discovered, it is revealed by God through Messengers.

That is sure true. God is at a much higher level than humans, which is why God is completely out of our reach.

“I am moved to testify that Thy court of holiness and glory is immeasurably exalted above the knowledge of all else besides Thee, and the mystery of Thy Presence is inscrutable to every mind except Thine own. No one except Thyself can unravel the secret of Thy nature, and naught else but Thy transcendental Essence can grasp the reality of Thy unsearchable being. How vast the number of those heavenly and all-glorious beings who, in the wilderness of their separation from Thee, have wandered all the days of their lives, and failed in the end to find Thee! How great the multitude of the sanctified and immortal souls who were lost and bewildered while seeking in the desert of search to behold Thy face!”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 64




your quote;No human being can discover “the Real Truth” from God on their own. It is a fool’s errand. God is forever hidden from our view. My Answer: Who has convinced you of this? Holding onto this Belief bides you to inaction. It imprisons you and your view in a box limiting you. Can you really contain God in a box of beliefs?

Nothing is hidden from you. What purpose would God have hiding anything? The only ones who hide things and invite you never to question or look elsewhere are those who do not want you to know the Real Truth.

your quote;Sure, we can discover lots of things, there is no limit to what humans can discover, but we cannot discover God by “looking around.” My Answer; You just must widen your view. OK, say i place a car in the middle of an ancient city several thousand years ago. Would the people of that time Discover nothing of those who made the car? Nothing?

AS I see it, in this time-based causal universe, God's actions can be seen. These actions can not be altered by anyone. The Truth Stares us in the face! Granted it's not easy. For many, it can be a stretch, however I think everyone can Discover something.

Completely lost? OK! I'll give you an action of God. God chooses not to just give us knowledge. Why not? Matter contains enormous amounts of energy. If God would give us the conversion method, we would not use oil and pollute the air.

This brings up questions. Why does God not make it easy? Why didn't God give everyone air conditioning or air planes thousands of years ago? Now, if God does not give knowledge freely, why do you think God will in order to control your choices and the actions of people? He won't. Mankind is about control. God is not.

It doesn't add up, but it MUST add up if it comes from the Highest Intelligence. Do you see where I'm going here?

There are a million questions and lots of work to Discover answers, however as I see it,it will lead to God.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
God does not interfere with human free will in order to prevent humans from making errors. God rather allows humans to learn from their mistakes. The road is long, the path is difficult to tread, and the lesson is hard to learn, but mankind will learn eventually.


Can not High Intelligence come up with a better way of delivery in order to prevent deception? If I can, surely God can.

Of course. you are making the assumption God needs or wants said message delivered. AS I see God's system, holy books are used solely as a catalyst with brings so many of mankind's problems to the surface so mankind can deal with them. After all, when people think they have God's backing, they hold nothing bad.

God's system worked long before holy books were created by mankind. God's system will still work long after religion becomes obsolete.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
So you are capable of understanding gods mind? Wow, im betting he thinks exactly like you do.




"Will not" or "cannot"??? Be honest with yourself



So you are not willing to provide evidence for your claims so offer a strawman based on ignorance of the human condition?
... Be honest



Projection


Excuses, Excuses, Excuses. It's OK. You can not say anything about those who Believe in God. You clutch to your Beliefs as tightly and any person of religion.

I understand Discovery takes work. Religion and society have conditioned many to just sit back accepting or rejecting beliefs. I will not feed this monster.

Worry not. At the point when knowing the Real Truth becomes more important to you, you will not settle for mere Beliefs.

Like I said before, your journey has never been up to me. Be who you must. It's a part of the Plan. You have my Blessing.

Oh yes, always be True to yourself, like you suggest. Wandering just makes the journey longer.
 

Bird123

Well-Known Member
Actually, I think that that is absolutely true.



Is that why you felt it necessary to capitalize the "d" in "Discovery? Because you are talking about the "Discovery" of God? How would scientists Discover that God created everything last Thursday?




Actually, I asked: "What makes you think I have a spiritual self?" I should extend that to What is a "Spiritual Self".


I know who I am. You must have a problem understanding what I write.



So, I asked a two year old if she could "tell the difference from who she really is and her physical body." I was rewarded with a blank stare.

I asked a seven year old if she could "tell the difference from who she really is and her physical body." She replied "You're funny".

I asked a seventeen year old if she could "tell the difference from who she really is and her physical body." She said "Go away creep".



What have I written about myself that leads you to the conclusion that I need to Discover who I am or that I'm trying to figure out how to open a door?


your quote;What have I written about myself that leads you to the conclusion that I need to Discover who I am or that I'm trying to figure out how to open a door?[/QUOTE] My Answer; No, this is the furthest thing you are wanting to do.
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
There seems to be some confusion as to the reason Muslim men in the 19th century had multiple wives. Below is an excerpt from a longer article on Wikipedia that explains the scriptural basis for polygamy.
(Bold added for emphasis.)

Scriptural basis for polygyny

The verse most commonly referred to with the topic of polygyny is Verse 3 of Surah 4 (An-Nisa [Women]). A translation by Yusuf Ali is shown below:

If ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly with the orphans, Marry women of your choice, Two or three or four; but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice.

— Qur'an, Sura 4 (An-Nisa), Ayah 3[1]

("One that your right hands possess" means a slave.) At first glance, this can be interpreted in many different ways, depending on one's agenda. However, it is important to understand the verse in context of both the Qur'an as well as the historical context when it was revealed. These Verses were revealed after the Battle of Uhud, in which many Muslim men were killed, leaving widows and orphans. Thus, many[who?] argue that these Verses have been revealed "because of Allah's concern for the welfare of women and orphans who were left without husbands and fathers who died fighting for the Prophet and for Islam. It is a verse about compassion towards women and their children; it is not about men or their sexuality."[2]

In the Hadith collection compiled by al-Bukhari, the historical context of Verse 4:3 is further explained when ‘Ursa narrates

that he asked 'Aisha about the Statement of Allah: 'If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with the orphan girls, then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (the captives) that your right hands possess. That will be nearer to prevent you from doing injustice.' (4.3) 'Aisha said, "O my nephew! (This Verse has been revealed in connection with) an orphan girl under the guardianship of her guardian who is attracted by her wealth and beauty and intends to marry her with a Mahr less than what other women of her standard deserve. So they (such guardians) have been forbidden to marry them unless they do justice to them and give them their full Mahr, and they are ordered to marry other women instead of them."

— Collected by Muhammad al-Bukhari, Sahih al-Bukhari[3]

The Qur’anic context can be explained by Surah 4:2, which states "To orphans restore their property (When they reach their age), nor substitute (your) worthless things for (their) good ones; and devour not their substance (by mixing it up) with your own. For this is indeed a great sin."[4]Therefore, the first part of verse 4:3 is dealing with orphan women who are under the protection of a male guardian, and it is advising the guardian to "deal justly" with the orphans.

In the second part of Verse 4:3, the Qu’ran states "but if ye fear that ye shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one, or (a captive) that your right hands possess, that will be more suitable, to prevent you from doing injustice."[1] If a man cannot deal justly with more than one wife, then he must marry only one. It is clear that this quote was revealed out of compassion towards women, and not as a means to please male sexuality, which is a common modern interpretation of such verses.[5]

Putting the verses regarding polygyny into the broader Qur'anic context by examining the nature of marriage in Islam helps understanding them. The Quran [4:21- "And how could ye take it when ye have gone in unto each other, and they have Taken from you a solemn covenant?"[6]] refers to marriage as a mithaq, i.e. a solemn covenant or agreement between husband and wife, and enjoins that it be put down in writing (4:21). Marriage is more than just a "solemn covenant" however, with Surah 30 verse 21 stating "And among His Signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that ye may dwell in tranquillity with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): verily in that are Signs for those who reflect."[7] Love and mercy are very much a part of marriage as described in the Qur'an. Although the Qur'an may prescribe different roles for males (husbands often seen as the provider), the equality between husband and wife is promoted when it is dictated in Surah 2 verse 187 that "They (your wives) are as a garment to you, and you are as a garment to them."[8] It is thus clear that there is more to polygyny in the scriptural basis of the Qur'an then simply the citation of Verse 4:3.

From: Polygyny in Islam - Wikipedia
 
Top