Questions for God

[ppp]

Who are you as a finite being with limited knowledge, compared to an infinite omnipotent Being, to say or assume such a Being doesn’t have plans or priorities for His creation?

A person who knows what the word priority means. Puffing up with indignation will get you nowhere.

According to the scriptures, God uses all things and works through every situation to accomplish His goals

Simply saying that God uses plague, murder, slavery and torture to accomplish his goals doesn't not excuse the use of plague, murder, slavery and torture. You are quoting -- perhaps blindly -- but certainly without giving thought consideration to the things you are advocating. You, @InChrist may, along with helping the hungry, also take a stand against plague, murder, slavery and torture. But right now, you are attempting to claim that your god is moral for using those "things and works".

 

[Trailblazer]

You are in a minority

What the majority believes is not necessarily true.

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.

The Narrow Way

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

 

[ChristineM]

What the majority believes is not necessarily true.

In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it: "If many believe so, it is so."

This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, appeal to popularity, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, bandwagon fallacy, Argumentum ad populum - Wikipedia

The converse of this is that if many or most people do not believe it, it cannot be so, and that is fallacious.

The Narrow Way

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matthew 7:13-14)

Just as true as what you believe.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Who are you as a finite being with limited knowledge, compared to an infinite omnipotent Being, to say or assume such a Being doesn’t have plans or priorities for His creation? According to the scriptures, God uses all things and works through every situation to accomplish His goals. Obviously, plenty of evil takes place and bad things happen in this physical world which the Bible clearly states is the result of human sin and the consequence of life in a fallen world damaged by sin. Nevertheless, God is allowing it temporarily because He has valid reasons to do so; one main one is likely as a wake up call to humanity that we are making a mess, harming ourselves and others, and destroying God’s creation/property.

Heaven will be composed of individuals whose lives have been transformed by Christ. Individuals who willingly chose to trust Jesus Christ, rather than self rule and therefore were born again to new eternal life in Christ. All those in heaven will never revolt as the fallen angels did, nor will they ever have the slightest desire to do so. There will be perfect unity and love between God and redeemed humans forever. God would no more turn against those who have been saved by Jesus than He could turn against His beloved Son.

I find your other two scenarios irrelevant.

In your opinion, of course. You've stated your beliefs as a Christian as if they are definitive facts, when in fact, they are merely your personal beliefs.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

A person who knows what the word priority means. Puffing up with indignation will get you nowhere.


Simply saying that God uses plague, murder, slavery and torture to accomplish his goals doesn't not excuse the use of plague, murder, slavery and torture. You are quoting -- perhaps blindly -- but certainly without giving thought consideration to the things you are advocating. You, @InChrist may, along with helping the hungry, also take a stand against plague, murder, slavery and torture. But right now, you are attempting to claim that your god is moral for using those "things and works".

Well said, in my opinion. And in response, I'd like to re-post what I wrote earlier in this thread.

According to the Bible, God is omniscient (Psalm 139:1–6; Isaiah 46:9–10; 1 John 3:20), omnipotent (Psalm 147:5; Job 42:2; Daniel 2:21), and omnipresent (Psalm 139:7–10; Isaiah 40:12; Colossians 1:17). And also, according to Genesis 6:6-7, God regretted creating not only mankind but also every animal, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds of the air. The Bible contains other verses that mention his other regrets in addition to creating humanity, all animals, and birds (1 Samuel 15:11; 2 Samuel 24:16; Jeremiah 42:10). Wouldn't an all-knowing, all-powerful, and ever-present God know better than to repopulate the world with the same flawed humans that he wiped out in a global flood? Well, if we're going by the scriptures I previously cited about him being omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, then the answer is apparently yes; he knew better, but he went forward anyway, knowing the outcome.

There are a plethora of biblical stories of a sadistic, psychopathic, and genocidal God who commanded the Israelites to wipe other nations off the face of the earth. According to the Bible, God commanded the Israelites to wipe the Amalikites off the face of the earth (Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2–3) and told them, "Now go, attack the Amalekites, and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’" (I Samuel 15:3). I wouldn't call this verse: "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" (Psalm 137:9) a shining example of morality from the Bible either. FYI, "Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits" has more examples of violence in the Bible.

According to the Bible, God is capable of hatred, jealousy, and wrath, and he committed global genocide. To be quite honest, I don't believe that anyone should derive their understanding of morality from the Bible. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't see a loving, merciful, and just God. How about you?

 

[Trailblazer]

Just as true as what you believe.

and just as true as what you disbelieve.

 

[InChrist]

What for?

What kind of God has nothing better to do than snuggle up with dead Christians?

What is it you don’t understand about the concept of eternal LIFE; as in NOT dead?

 

[ppp]

Well said, in my opinion. And in response, I'd like to re-post what I wrote earlier in this thread.

According to the Bible, God is omniscient (Psalm 139:1–6; Isaiah 46:9–10; 1 John 3:20), omnipotent (Psalm 147:5; Job 42:2; Daniel 2:21), and omnipresent (Psalm 139:7–10; Isaiah 40:12; Colossians 1:17). And also, according to Genesis 6:6-7, God regretted creating not only mankind but also every animal, every creature that creeps on the ground, and the birds of the air. The Bible contains other verses that mention his other regrets in addition to creating humanity, all animals, and birds (1 Samuel 15:11; 2 Samuel 24:16; Jeremiah 42:10). Wouldn't an all-knowing, all-powerful, and ever-present God know better than to repopulate the world with the same flawed humans that he wiped out in a global flood? Well, if we're going by the scriptures I previously cited about him being omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent, then the answer is apparently yes; he knew better, but he went forward anyway, knowing the outcome.

There are a plethora of biblical stories of a sadistic, psychopathic, and genocidal God who commanded the Israelites to wipe other nations off the face of the earth. According to the Bible, God commanded the Israelites to wipe the Amalikites off the face of the earth (Exodus 17:8–13; 1 Samuel 15:2–3) and told them, "Now go, attack the Amalekites, and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’" (I Samuel 15:3). I wouldn't call this verse: "Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks" (Psalm 137:9) a shining example of morality from the Bible either. FYI, "Violence in the Bible: Greatest Hits" has more examples of violence in the Bible.

According to the Bible, God is capable of hatred, jealousy, and wrath, and he committed global genocide. To be quite honest, I don't believe that anyone should derive their understanding of morality from the Bible. I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't see a loving, merciful, and just God. How about you?

I agree. I see humans writing to themes and drama, talking about our hopes and fears. Enjoying a good GvE melodrama. Some good raunchy sex scenes. A little gross-you-out body horror.

You just reminded me ==> Have you ever read The Cyberiad by Stanislaw Lem? Here is a small excerpt.

“Have it compose a poem — a poem about a haircut! But lofty, noble, tragic, timeless, full of love, treachery, retribution, quiet heroism in the face of certain doom! Six lines, cleverly rhymed, and every word beginning with the letter S!!”

“And why not throw in a full exposition of the general theory of nonlinear automata while you’re at it?” growled Trurl. “You can’t give it such idiotic — ”

But he didn’t finish. A melodious voice filled the hall with the following:

“Seduced, shaggy Samson snored.
She scissored short. Sorely shorn,
Soon shackled slave, Samson sighed,
Silently scheming,
Sightlessly seeking
Some savage, spectacular suicide.”

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

What for?

What kind of God has nothing better to do than snuggle up with dead Christians?

Well, according to the Bible (see the link), these dead Christians will spend eternity praising and worshiping God. So I suppose, in other words, God wants them to spend an eternity praising him and fawning over him. I can't imagine anything worse than spending eternity inflating the ego of a narcissistic God.

What Does the Bible Say About Worship God In Heaven?

Bible verses about Worship God In Heaven

www.openbible.info

 

[InChrist]

In your opinion, of course. You've stated your beliefs as a Christian as if they are definitive facts, when in fact, they are merely your personal beliefs.

Yes, from my perspective. According to the scriptures they are facts revealed from the Creator of heaven and earth to humanity.

 

[Trailblazer]

What for?

What kind of God has nothing better to do than snuggle up with dead Christians?

Snuggle up? I don't think God snuggles up with anyone.

 

[InChrist]

A person who knows what the word priority means. Puffing up with indignation will get you nowhere.


Simply saying that God uses plague, murder, slavery and torture to accomplish his goals doesn't not excuse the use of plague, murder, slavery and torture. You are quoting -- perhaps blindly -- but certainly without giving thought consideration to the things you are advocating. You, @InChrist may, along with helping the hungry, also take a stand against plague, murder, slavery and torture. But right now, you are attempting to claim that your god is moral for using those "things and works".

If God is Just, Holy, and Righteous in all He does (which I don’t doubt) and humans are the cause of the problems on this earth, then yes, I am saying God is completely moral when He supersedes and ultimately brings good above and beyond human evil.

 

[Trailblazer]

Well, according to the Bible (see the link), these dead Christians will spend eternity praising and worshiping God.

I am not sure where that belief came from, but I don't see it expressed in any Bible verses, although maybe Christians have interpreted those verses to mean that.

The Baha'i Faith certainly does not teach that. God needs no worship from humans. God only says we should worship Him for our own benefit, but once we are no longer in this world it might be too late to partake of that benefit.

In the Baha'i Faith work is considered worship, whether we are serving God or just doing our daily jobs, and since we will still have work to do in the spiritual world, in that sense we will still be worshiping God.

 

[ppp]

If God is Just, Holy, and Righteous in all He does (which I don’t doubt) and humans are the cause of the problems on this earth, then yes, I am saying God is completely moral when He supersedes and ultimately brings good above and beyond human evil.

And I am saying that yours is a profoundly base and immoral position to hold. That no natter how strongly, frequently, or certainly you exhort and exclaim "Just, Holy, and Righteous" that you are aligned with an incarnation of evil. Under the hypothetical that the Biblical god exists, of course. If not, then you merely help facilitate evil. In addition to your helping the hungry, of course.

Seems like we are diametrically opposed. Which is weird. Because we both agree on the issue of food security. Ah well.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Yes, from my perspective. According to the scriptures they are facts revealed from the Creator of heaven and earth to humanity.

And, from my perspective, I believe the Bible is riddled with multiple contradictions, as well as embellished stories about Jesus and also plagiarized myths about him derived from Greek mythology and other pagan religions that predate the Bible and Christianity. Rather than re-post what I've already written about my beliefs regarding Jesus and the Bible, I've decided to post a link to a previous post, which is included with the other link. I explained my beliefs.

Bible Contradictions, Misogyny, Violence, Inaccuracies interactively visualized

My beliefs about Jesus and the Bible: By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

You are, of course, entitled to your spiritual beliefs, just as I am entitled to mine. However, I see a difference between how you and I state our respective spiritual beliefs: whenever I state mine or my personal opinions, I include "I believe," "I think," "in my opinion," or a similar phrase to indicate that what I've written are my beliefs and opinions, which is in accordance with Rule 8. I see you, on the other hand, state your beliefs as if they were definitive facts.

 

[InChrist]

And, from my perspective, I believe the Bible is riddled with multiple contradictions, as well as embellished stories about Jesus and also plagiarized myths about him derived from Greek mythology and other pagan religions that predate the Bible and Christianity. Rather than re-post what I've already written about my beliefs regarding Jesus and the Bible, I've decided to post a link to a previous post, which is included with the other link. I explained my beliefs.

Bible Contradictions, Misogyny, Violence, Inaccuracies interactively visualized

My beliefs about Jesus and the Bible: By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

You are, of course, entitled to your spiritual beliefs, just as I am entitled to mine. However, I see a difference between how you and I state our respective spiritual beliefs: whenever I state mine or my personal opinions, I include "I believe," "I think," "in my opinion," or a similar phrase to indicate that what I've written are my beliefs and opinions, which is in accordance with Rule 8. I see you, on the other hand, state your beliefs as if they were definitive facts.

You are certainly entitled to sharing your beliefs and I have seen you share them adamantly and repeatedly on numerous occasions.

 

[InChrist]

And I am saying that yours is a profoundly base and immoral position to hold. That no natter how strongly, frequently, or certainly you exhort and exclaim "Just, Holy, and Righteous" that you are aligned with an incarnation of evil. Under the hypothetical that the Biblical god exists, of course. If not, then you merely help facilitate evil. In addition to your helping the hungry, of course.

Seems like we are diametrically opposed. Which is weird. Because we both agree on the issue of food security. Ah well.

Yes, it appears we are diametrically opposed-perspective wise. I trust God’s goodness and believe He has valid reasons for the temporary conditions of the world.

 

[Trailblazer]

According to the Bible, God is capable of hatred, jealousy, and wrath, and he committed global genocide.

FWIW, I don't believe any of that, except the part about wrath. God did not write the OT, men wrote about God.
I believe the part about wrath since Baha'u'llah also said God has wrath. There is nothing wrong with wrath when deserved.

One can believe the Bible is true in many respects but not believe everything that is contained in it.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

And I am saying that yours is a profoundly base and immoral position to hold. That no natter how strongly, frequently, or certainly you exhort and exclaim "Just, Holy, and Righteous" that you are aligned with an incarnation of evil. Under the hypothetical that the Biblical god exists, of course. If not, then you merely help facilitate evil. In addition to your helping the hungry, of course.

Seems like we are diametrically opposed. Which is weird. Because we both agree on the issue of food security. Ah well.

Under the hypothetical that the biblical god exists, he has, in my opinion, no one else to blame but himself for his screw-ups and failures as a god. As I mentioned in my prior post (#385), despite being supposedly all-knowing, all-powerful, and ever-present, he still regretted creating mankind. And as if he were incapable of learning from his mistake, he repopulates the earth with the same flawed humans that he just destroyed in a global flood. The question is: Did he expect a different result? If he did, then would that qualify as the definition of insanity, which is to do the same thing over and over again and expect a different result? Or, supposedly having foreknowledge, perhaps he did the same over again while knowing what the results would be and how he would respond. In that case, then I think that he is a sadistic and malicious god. Of course, this is under the hypothetical assumption that this god exists.

 

[InChrist]

Seems like we are diametrically opposed. Which is weird. Because we both agree on the issue of food security. Ah well.

I think it’s truly sad that you do not know or understand the love of God. This life, this world is passing away, the love of God is forever… my perspective.