Questions for God

[Sgt. Pepper]

You are certainly entitled to sharing your beliefs and I have seen you share them adamantly and repeatedly on numerous occasions.

And I've seen you state your beliefs as if they were absolute truth on numerous occasions in what appears to be your efforts to preach and proselytize.

 

[Trailblazer]

I trust God’s goodness and believe He has valid reasons for the temporary conditions of the world.

I do not believe that God is responsible for the conditions of this world. I believe humans are responsible.
God allows humans to do what they do because God honors free will, but that does not make God responsible.

 

[ppp]

I think it’s truly sad that you do not know or understand the love of God. This life, this world is passing away, the love of God is forever… my perspective.

My understanding of the cosmos is akin to an enlightened sage gazing upon the tapestry of existence from the mountaintop of supreme wisdom, while your perspective, I'm afraid, is as if peering through the foggy lens of a toy telescope, barely scratching the surface of the celestial mysteries that I navigate with the ease of a cosmic navigator charting the stars. My insights into the universe are as brilliant and illuminating as a supernova, shedding light on the profound truths of existence, whereas your viewpoint, though earnest, remains in the shadowy realm of elementary comprehension. In the grand theater of cosmic understanding, I am the maestro conducting a symphony of universal truths, and you, my dear friend, are but a novice in the audience, just beginning to grasp the melody.

And I have cookies.

Is that sufficiently ludicrous and over the top?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it’s truly sad that you do not know or understand the love of God. This life, this world is passing away, the love of God is forever… my perspective.

I think that is sad for any of us. My religion teaches the same as Christianity regarding the love of God, but I nevertheless have issues with loving God or feeling loved by God. However, I realize this is just an emotional issue I have to work through and I hope to work through it before I leave this mortal realm of existence.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

My understanding of the cosmos is akin to an enlightened sage gazing upon the tapestry of existence from the mountaintop of supreme wisdom, while your perspective, I'm afraid, is as if peering through the foggy lens of a toy telescope, barely scratching the surface of the celestial mysteries that I navigate with the ease of a cosmic navigator charting the stars. My insights into the universe are as brilliant and illuminating as a supernova, shedding light on the profound truths of existence, whereas your viewpoint, though earnest, remains in the shadowy realm of elementary comprehension. In the grand theater of cosmic understanding, I am the maestro conducting a symphony of universal truths, and you, my dear friend, are but a novice in the audience, just beginning to grasp the melody.

And I have cookies.

Is that sufficiently ludicrous and over the top?

As a former Christian, I've learned to stand on my own without my prior emotional crutch to believe in and have faith in the biblical God. For example, I no longer attempt to rely on this god or on any deities for comfort, guidance, protection, or for my personal well-being. I no longer fear any gods or worry about appeasing any deities for their favor or love, and that includes the biblical god. It's been a very liberating experience. In fact, I'm an agnostic now.

 

[Bird123]

In the sense of existing in reality, the world external to the self, yes, of course. If it were otherwise you could point out the parts you say are non-physical and we could examine them to test your claim.

I don't deny they exist in individual brains as things imagined, concepts, ideas.


Must God be objectively real? Only if the claim is made that God is objectively real. If you're not claiming that, please at once say so and that will save much time.


Of course. Do you see a real, a non-imaginary God from time to time? Then please be sure to take a camera and post some photos or videos of [him].


Demonstrate that I'm wrong.

I have pointed out your non-physical parts yet you refuse to consider it and blame it all on your brain. I guess you will just have to wait until you no longer have a brain to even consider anything I have pointed out to you.

God is objectively real. On the other hand, each must seek the proof for themselves. Do you seek? Of course not!! You might just Discover your beliefs are not true.

I was taking actions before last Thursday. Check on some of my replies of the past. Check the dates. You can't escape reality regardless of how hard you try.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[ppp]

They are truth to me, otherwise I wouldn’t waste my time believing them. On this forum everyone shares their thoughts, beliefs, and opinions without always saying “I believe, My opinion, etc, “, repeatedly and redundantly on every post. I think most people are able to comprehend and understand that another person is sharing their perspective. I don’t think I’m breaking rules or attempting to preach or proselytize anymore than you or anyone else here.

Can you dig any further down than its "truth to me"? Or is that as far down as things go?

 

[InChrist]

Can you dig any further down than its "truth to me"? Or is that as far down as things go?

What is that supposed to mean?

 

[ppp]

What is that supposed to mean?

Exactly that. No subtext. When people lean on It's truth to me, it seems that they are making themselves the epistemological foundation. Rather than the reality in which we live. I have been wrong about reality in all sorts of ways over the course of my life. If I approached the world with It is truth to me as being a satisfactory foundation, I could never have been corrected,

 

[InChrist]

Exactly that. No subtext. When people lean on It's truth to me, it seems that they are making themselves the epistemological foundation. Rather than the reality in which we live. I have been wrong about reality in all sorts of ways over the course of my life. If I approached the world with It is truth to me as being a satisfactory foundation, I could never have been corrected,

Well, I can’t exactly flat out say “it’s the truth “, at least according to a certain poster who keeps reminding me that I must qualify my perspectives, as my perspective or what I believe or my opinion or my views or “truth to me”. So there you have it. Nevertheless, I know what I know…

And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.
1 John 5:11-12

 

[ppp]

Well, I can’t exactly flat out say “it’s the truth “, at least according to a certain poster who keeps reminding me that I must qualify my perspectives, as my perspective or what I believe or my opinion or my views or “truth to me”. So there you have it. Nevertheless, I know what I know…

you address the politics of the forum as a reason to phrase it that way, but even after all that you go right back to setting yourself as Mx Epistemology.

"It's truth to me"
"I know what I know…"

• "That's just the way it is."
• "It's common sense."
• "I feel it in my gut."
• "It's always been done this way."
• "I don't need proof; I just know it's true."
• "Everyone agrees with me."
• "It's a well-known fact."
• "I heard it from someone reliable."
• "It's self-evident."
• "There's no point in questioning it."

I think that I would be justified in leaning on that old and overly used Christian canard, "You're just making yourself into your own god." But, rather, I will just say that you are setting up your flawed human brain as the dictator of reality.

edit: I probably do not need to add then. But before some bad faith actor digs in, I will explicitly say that humans brains are flawed as a class of organ. Not just yours.

 

[F1fan]

No, I am not callously ignoring the hunger or needs of people. On the contrary, Jesus stated that whatever we do to help the least or those in need is to serve Him. You really have no idea what I may be doing on a personal level to help hungry people or those in need, so you shouldn’t be getting off on assumptions or personal insults.

It's interesting that you don't explain what you do to help those in need. You might think that praying for them is enough to feel you've done your duty.

My point is that God created human beings as eternal beings, therefore God’s priority is their eternal destiny and well-being.

This isn't factual, just your interpretation of lore. But OK.

Life is short, eternity is forever.
In the meantime, Christians are called and instructed by God’s Word to care for the physical, as well as spiritual needs of those around them.

Then why bother with life at all? Look at how messy it is, and with all the suffering involved. It's as if humans on earth is a violent ant farm for God's amusement. If you are going to interpret the Bible literally, don't forget how things are is just how God wanted it. War. Kids with cancer and defects. And how do conservative Christians interpret this? As human's fault and God is merciful as a bystander doing nothing.

Or it means that someone who shuts their mind off to the spiritual realm is deceiving themselves and missing a big part of reality.

What is the "spiritual realm", and how is it factual? If you can't describe how it is real and factual, then your criticism is irrelevant and indicates your own failure. Note that critical thinkers don't assume religious concepts as true, so you need to provide facts.

Further, thus far no Christian can demonstrate their core beliefs are factual and true, so what is there to be open minded to, exactly? We ask questions, Christians don't have factual answers. Not our problem. And ponder: how open minded are you to the existence of Hindu gods?

Who are you as a finite being with limited knowledge, compared to an infinite omnipotent Being, to say or assume such a Being doesn’t have plans or priorities for His creation?

He's a fallible human who hasn't decided a God exists despite the lack of evidence. That is honest and virtuous. How arrogant is it for believers to assume their God exists and others are ignorant?

According to the scriptures,

No, according to your flawed interpretation of the Bible, as if you are God yourself and beyond error. Too bad the Bible is vague.

God uses all things and works through every situation to accomplish His goals. Obviously, plenty of evil takes place and bad things happen in this physical world which the Bible clearly states is the result of human sin and the consequence of life in a fallen world damaged by sin. Nevertheless, God is allowing it temporarily because He has valid reasons to do so; one main one is likely as a wake up call to humanity that we are making a mess, harming ourselves and others, and destroying God’s creation/property.

As I have argued, if you are correct in your interpretation then everything that exists is exactly as God designed, caused, and wanted. If you disagree, then God makes mistakes.

 

[Trailblazer]

When people lean on It's truth to me, it seems that they are making themselves the epistemological foundation. Rather than the reality in which we live.

It's truth to me means someone believes it is the truth. Nobody is making themselves the epistemological foundation of truth.
What is the reality in which we live? Does anyone know? No, we can only believe we know.

Can you dig down inside and ask yourself why someone saying It's truth to me is so bothersome.
If you said it is truth to me that there is no God that would not bother me in the slightest.

 

[InChrist]

you address the politics of the forum as a reason to phrase it that way, but even after all that you go right back to setting yourself as Mx Epistemology.

"It's truth to me"
"I know what I know…"

• "That's just the way it is."
• "It's common sense."
• "I feel it in my gut."
• "It's always been done this way."
• "I don't need proof; I just know it's true."
• "Everyone agrees with me."
• "It's a well-known fact."
• "I heard it from someone reliable."
• "It's self-evident."
• "There's no point in questioning it."

I think that I would be justified in leaning on that old and overly used Christian canard, "You're just making yourself into your own god." But, rather, I will just say that you are setting up your flawed human brain as the dictator of reality.

edit: I probably do not need to add then. But before some bad faith actor digs in, I will explicitly say that humans brains are flawed as a class of organ. Not just yours.

At least I admitted I am flawed and in need of the perfect Savior, Jesus Christ, to change me and transform my thinking.

 

[InChrist]

It's interesting that you don't explain what you do to help those in need. You might think that praying for them is enough to feel you've done your duty.

This isn't factual, just your interpretation of lore. But OK.

Then why bother with life at all? Look at how messy it is, and with all the suffering involved. It's as if humans on earth is a violent ant farm for God's amusement. If you are going to interpret the Bible literally, don't forget how things are is just how God wanted it. War. Kids with cancer and defects. And how do conservative Christians interpret this? As human's fault and God is merciful as a bystander doing nothing.


What is the "spiritual realm", and how is it factual? If you can't describe how it is real and factual, then your criticism is irrelevant and indicates your own failure. Note that critical thinkers don't assume religious concepts as true, so you need to provide facts.

Further, thus far no Christian can demonstrate their core beliefs are factual and true, so what is there to be open minded to, exactly? We ask questions, Christians don't have factual answers. Not our problem. And ponder: how open minded are you to the existence of Hindu gods?


He's a fallible human who hasn't decided a God exists despite the lack of evidence. That is honest and virtuous. How arrogant is it for believers to assume their God exists and others are ignorant?

No, according to your flawed interpretation of the Bible, as if you are God yourself and beyond error. Too bad the Bible is vague.

As I have argued, if you are correct in your interpretation then everything that exists is exactly as God designed, caused, and wanted. If you disagree, then God makes mistakes.

I have no desire to explain what I do to love and help my neighbors who are less fortunate, homeless, abused or hungry. I’m not looking to impress you or anyone and Jesus said to do our good deeds quietly, not showing off. In the book of James it says faith without works is dead, so no I don’t just pray, since I believe Christians are to be the hands and feet of Christ helping others in practical ways.

When you read the scriptures it’s obvious the condition of this fallen world is NOT the way God designed or wants it. There are many commands and words of wisdom instructing people how to treat one another and to avoid harming others. Besides, the important point of the scriptures is that God sent His beloved Son to save humanity, He is calling people out of this world system, to repentance, a new life in Christ, and to eternal life in a new heaven and earth.

 

[ppp]

At least I admitted I am flawed and in need of the perfect Savior, Jesus Christ, to change me and transform my thinking.

Now you are doing a bait and switch. The only thing you are are "admitting" to are what Christianity claims to be moral failings. You are not admitting that you are are flawed in the foundations of your epistemology. You are not admitting that "It's truth to me" and "I know what I know…" are fundamentally flawed, unjustified, and (advisedly) arrogant foundations for your claims to truth and knowing.

Is the "At least I admitted..." bait and switch just the first in a long string of dodges and deceptions? You really don't have to do that.

 

[InChrist]

Now you are doing a bait and switch. The only thing you are are "admitting" to are what Christianity claims to be moral failings. You are not admitting that you are are flawed in the foundations of your epistemology. You are not admitting that "It's truth to me" and "I know what I know…" are fundamentally flawed, unjustified, and (advisedly) arrogant foundations for your claims to truth and knowing.

Is the "At least I admitted..." bait and switch just the first in a long string of dodges and deceptions? You really don't have to do that.

What I definitely admit to is that I am flawed and I was clueless and tossed around by all kinds of worldly and/or religious-spiritual ideas… until my eyes were opened and my thinking corrected by Jesus Christ. I would still be lost in my confusion, if not for Him. My opinion is that each of us, all humans exist in a confused state of limited awareness and knowledge. It’s only by God’s intervention and revelation that we can gain necessary information and understanding.

 

[F1fan]

When you read the scriptures it’s obvious the condition of this fallen world is NOT the way God designed or wants it.

Then God made mistakes, because how can things a God wants not go the way he wanted it?

There are many commands and words of wisdom instructing people how to treat one another and to avoid harming others.

Many don't need commands, and just naturally empathetic. I suppose some need to follow rules how to be decent, or at least not cause others problems.

Besides, the important point of the scriptures is that God sent His beloved Son to save humanity, He is calling people out of this world system, to repentance, a new life in Christ, and to eternal life in a new heaven and earth.

Yeah, God really needed to kill a guy so he can give himself permission to forgive sins? That makes sense. Like zero sense.

 

[ppp]

What I definitely admit to is that I am flawed and I was clueless and tossed around by all kinds of worldly and/or religious-spiritual ideas… until my eyes were opened and my thinking corrected by Jesus Christ. I would still be lost in my confusion, if not for Him. My opinion is that each of us, all humans exist in a confused state of limited awareness and knowledge. It’s only by God’s intervention and revelation that we can gain necessary information and understanding.

That is testifying, which is nothing more than preaching.

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

Rather than the reality in which we live.

The reality I live in now no longer includes the guilt trips of allegedly sinning against the biblical God, incurring his wrath, the threats of eternal damnation, and the notion that I'm morally depraved and in need of a savior to save me. The latter is the most self-damning belief, in my opinion, coupled with the belief that I need to submit my life to the biblical God in order to be a moral person or to experience peace. I think that these beliefs were nothing more than emotional manipulation that was detrimental to my mental health and personal well-being. As I've explained in similar discussions (such as this one), I'm grateful to be free from what I consider to be the entrapment of Christianity. I still see it as a prison, and I was its prisoner, but now I'm free from it.