Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

[Trailblazer]

How can you just wake up and read some writing of someone and be like "I believe everything this person is saying"? That is not how I deal with the Qur'an. If I didn't like the Qur'an, I would happily throw it in the trash as rubbish which does not accord with the truth or reality at all. So why the Qur'an is good is not "just because", but because it matches up well with reality and is useful, and I don't believe what it says except that it seems to be very accurate, and cool, and I like it a lot.

The words of Baha'u'llah (what did you read first or what did you read again which specifically was the moment you were like "yep, whatever this guy says is the truth"?) need to be read to see if they accord with the truth and the reality of things, and if they seem to, if we also enjoy them is a factor. You must enjoy them, but the fact that you are convinced of whatever something says without investigating it, seems sort of amazing and even weird to me.

It is really rather simple. I do it judge what Baha'u'llah wrote according to my own experience or what I believe should be the case.
I believe that Baha'u'llah was a Manifestation of God and as such He was infallible, so I believe everything He wrote is in accordance with truth and reality.

What I have is called faith.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

In the end Kit-Kat I see we are defined by our Faith.

I see no Baha'i can, or even should Judge you, or can or should have predudices against you, in fact under civil law they will support your rights for you to be as you choose.

To be a Baha'i is defined within the given Law. Many of those laws are a challenge to our current thoughts and lifestyles, but if we see Baha'u'llah gave a Message from God, then they are the Laws given by God, who knows us better than our own selves.

As such this life offers us all a challenge. Our nature, our nurture are moulded by mostly the world around us, a world that Baha'u'llah offered needed to see that true liberty was submission to God's commandments, and not to allow and unbridled Liberty in man's own ways and desires.

I struggled many years with this liberty and only found a piece of mind in the last 6 or so years. Where we focus our mind is the key. If we focus on our desires and needs in this world, they end up consuming us, when God becomes the focus, then a Light lifts many burdens from our heart, and gives us motivation to overcome what we once thought were impossible barriers.

Regards Tony

How did you come to this practice of focus, and what exactly do you? If there are some exercises you could teach, or techniques, they could benefit many of us!

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

It is really rather simple. I do it judge what Baha'u'llah wrote according to my own experience or what I believe should be the case.
I believe that Baha'u'llah was infallible so I believe everything He wrote is in accordance with truth and reality.

What I have is called faith.

View attachment 44410

How do you believe he was infallible? I don't believe Muhammed was infallible. Is it just that the Baha'u'llah says what you think is best and want it to say so you find your ideas matched up to his writing the way I do with the Qur'an, or is it different?

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

What, would destroy each of your faiths in whatever you have faith in? That is something I also wonder, like if someone came up with some information or something, is there anything that would be able to destroy your beliefs and shake your world view to its core? What would that be?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's pretty much what I said. I hope you know how big the surgery is and how making that choice causes 8 to 12 months of recovery.

Personally I see you have to balance all this in your heart. I do not think anything I can offer can help.

I see the only answers are those that God has given and it is each of us that decides how far we implement that guidance.

To give a thought about that here is an thought I was offered by a Persian Baha'i refugee from Iran, who came from a line of early believers. As we know they face big issues practicing their Faith and they are strong in Bahai Law.

Before a Baha'i I liked fast cars and after becoming a Baha'i that passion did not wain. I never considered breaking a few traffic laws as much of a consequence, unless one got caught and fined.

One day I drove my fast car to a Baha'i Peace conference and in casual conversation with this Baha'i mentioned the trip up.

He was horrified and said to me have I not considered that breaking the speeding law was breaking the Law of Baha'u'llah as Baha'u'llah's Law states we must obey the just laws of our elected governments?

I had to admit, I had not really considered it in that light at all and it took many years after that for it to permeate my mind and actions.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How do you believe he was infallible? I don't believe Muhammed was infallible. Is it just that the Baha'u'llah says what you think is best and want it to say so you find your ideas matched up to his writing the way I do with the Qur'an, or is it different?

The proof of his life, his person and the Message given.

Regards Tony

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

Personally I see you have to balance all this in your heart. I do not think anything I can offer can help.

I see the only answers are those that God has given and it is each of us that decides how far we implement that guidance.

To give a thought about that here is an thought I was offered by a Persian Baha'i refugee from Iran, who came from a line of early believers. As we know they face big issues practicing their Faith and they are strong in Bahai Law.

Before a Baha'i I liked fast cars and after becoming a Baha'i that passion did not wain. I never considered breaking a few traffic laws as much of a consequence, unless one got caught and fined.

One day I drove my fast car to a Baha'i Peace conference and in casual conversation with this Baha'i mentioned the trip up.

He was horrified and said to me have I not considered that breaking the speeding law was breaking the Law of Baha'u'llah as Baha'u'llah's Law states we must obey the just laws of our elected governments?

I had to admit, I had not really considered it in that light at all and it took many years after that for it to permeate my mind and actions.

Regards Tony

I appreciate your kind words and well meaning. But I'd already made that hard decision and am not still trying to make it. It's, if the medical community says one thing which I know beyond a reasonable doubt to be true, and a manifestation of God or his organization says another... I'm going to go with the medical community.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

How did you come to this practice of focus, and what exactly do you? If there are some exercises you could teach, or techniques, they could benefit many of us!

I see it is a personal journey.

Baha'u'llah offered it, as I see, in a nut shell by offering this;

“THE world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.
Immerse yourselves in the ocean of My words, that ye may unravel its secrets, and discover all the pearls of wisdom that lie hid in its depths. Take heed that ye do not vacillate in your determination to embrace the truth of this Cause—a Cause through which the potentialities of the might of God have been revealed, and His sovereignty established. With faces beaming with joy, hasten ye unto Him. This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.
Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth... "

If we choose to do that and how we do it, is a personal choice for each of us.

Personally it is that immersion that brings more peace of heart.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I appreciate your kind words and well meaning. But I'd already made that hard decision and am not still trying to make it. It's, if the medical community says one thing which I know beyond a reasonable doubt to be true, and a manifestation of God or his organization says another... I'm going to go with the medical community.

Baha'u'llah has said we need to engage trained medical practitioners.

As to how we mould that advice, with the other advice, is again personal choice.

All the best KIt-Kat

Regards Tony

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

When I joined this forum May 2019, I was a seeker. I tried Panentheism but it didn't make much sense to me. Then I found the Baha'i faith and found it really really interesting. I was starting to feel good about this faith having studied 2 months. Then someone, it could have been someone on another site, and I think it was... pointed out how it'd be difficult for me to transition while subscribing to the Baha'i faith. I created a thread on this forum to ask whether this was true and get verification. In my opinion, it more or less was. This thread that I created kind of became larger than life and larger than I meant it to, and spanned about 750 posts, with some strong debate, especially from non-Bahai's not seeing these transgender views or what was being said about the subject as very genuine. I'd rather not link to the thread as I want to put it behind me for now. But I will say it also pained me to see the Baha'is get it rough in that thread too. I later announced that I would study HInduism since Krishna was a fascinating subject while I was Baha'i, and here I am. I really just practice my faith privately.

What do Panentheists say and do, and what do Krishna people privately do, or you? Do each have websites you visited that made up rules or practices?

How about the Bahai, is the there some particular piece of Baha'u'llah's corpus of writing that I should access first that can be linked here to see if I like it or not? Everyone can suggest their favorites or what they think is best!

 

[Trailblazer]

I hope you know how big the surgery is and how making that choice causes 8 to 12 months of recovery.

No, I didn't know, but thanks for letting me know.
I hope all goes well.

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

I see it is a personal journey.

Baha'u'llah offered it, as I see, in a nut shell by offering this;

“THE world’s equilibrium hath been upset through the vibrating influence of this most great, this new World Order. Mankind’s ordered life hath been revolutionized through the agency of this unique, this wondrous System—the like of which mortal eyes have never witnessed.
Immerse yourselves in the ocean of My words, that ye may unravel its secrets, and discover all the pearls of wisdom that lie hid in its depths. Take heed that ye do not vacillate in your determination to embrace the truth of this Cause—a Cause through which the potentialities of the might of God have been revealed, and His sovereignty established. With faces beaming with joy, hasten ye unto Him. This is the changeless Faith of God, eternal in the past, eternal in the future. Let him that seeketh, attain it; and as to him that hath refused to seek it—verily, God is Self-Sufficient, above any need of His creatures.
Say: This is the infallible Balance which the Hand of God is holding, in which all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth are weighed, and their fate determined, if ye be of them that believe and recognize this truth... "

If we choose to do that and how we do it, is a personal choice for each of us.

Personally it is that immersion that brings more peace of heart.

Regards Tony

Awesome, any links for me to dip in and I'll start swimming!

 

[PoetPhilosopher]

I don't know the statistics, but let's say 30% of all transgender people very very serious about transitioning go above and beyond and in addition to taking the hormones to change their appearance, they get the surgery the Baha'is want done, to change their private parts.

This alienates 70% of serious transgender people.

Also, it'd create complications for them to tell the doctor "I want to get the surgery done because of my faith." Doctors are usually trained to probably say no to such requests at least temporarily and to fully explain to the patient that while hormones will give them the appearance they want, they need good medical / psychological reasons to do such a big surgery.

 

[Trailblazer]

How do you believe he was infallible?

My belief that Baha'u'llah was infallible is based upon the my belief in the Divine Unity.

“The essence of belief in Divine unity consisteth in regarding Him Who is the Manifestation of God and Him Who is the invisible, the inaccessible, the unknowable Essence as one and the same. By this is meant that whatever pertaineth to the former, all His acts and doings, whatever He ordaineth or forbiddeth, should be considered, in all their aspects, and under all circumstances, and without any reservation, as identical with the Will of God Himself. This is the loftiest station to which a true believer in the unity of God can ever hope to attain. Blessed is the man that reacheth this station, and is of them that are steadfast in their belief.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 167

 

[Trailblazer]

What, would destroy each of your faiths in whatever you have faith in? That is something I also wonder, like if someone came up with some information or something, is there anything that would be able to destroy your beliefs and shake your world view to its core? What would that be?

If you could prove that Baha'u'llah was not a Manifestation of God, that would do it.

Good luck.

 

[Trailblazer]

Awesome, any links for me to dip in and I'll start swimming!

The Works of Bahá'u'lláh

Happy swimming, it'll take you a while to get to the other side of this ocean.

 

[Truthseeker]

Yes there is, he says many times that the dispensation will last between 1511 and 2001 years. It doesn't get clearer than that.

How do you explain this passage by the Bab to the Sherif of Mecca:

Shouldst thou return unto Us while revelation still continueth through Us, We shall transform thy fire into light. Truly We are powerful over all things. But if thou failest in this task, thou shalt find no way open to thee other than to embrace the Cause of God and to implore that the matter of thine allegiance be brought to the attention of Him Whom God shall make manifest, that He may graciously enable thee to prosper and cause thy fire to be transformed into light.

The Báb, "Selections from the Writings of the Báb", 1.7.3

This clearly indicates that the Sherif of Mecca will still be alive when Him Whom God shall make manifest comes.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Awesome, any links for me to dip in and I'll start swimming!

The shore of the ocean is here.

Spoiler

Bahá’í Reference Library | The Bahá’í Faith

As to where and how to dive in?

Maybe between the flags with the Hidden Words. The Hidden Words | Bahá’í Reference Library

As with the shores of any great Ocean, sometimes they are serene and sometimes the fearcest of gales come upon us.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't know the statistics, but let's say 30% of all transgender people very very serious about transitioning go above and beyond and in addition to taking the hormones to change their appearance, they get the surgery the Baha'is want done, to change their private parts.

This alienates 70% of serious transgender people.

Also, it'd create complications for them to tell the doctor "I want to get the surgery done because of my faith." Doctors are usually trained to probably say no to such requests at least temporarily and to fully explain to the patient that while hormones will give them the appearance they want, they need good medical / psychological reasons to do such a big surgery.

There are possibly other options and with God, Love dose take on new dimensions.

God has a path of service for every soul, how we embrace life, lights the path or darkens the way.

Regards Tony

 

[SeekerOnThePath]

How do you explain this passage by the Bab to the Sherif of Mecca:

Shouldst thou return unto Us while revelation still continueth through Us, We shall transform thy fire into light. Truly We are powerful over all things. But if thou failest in this task, thou shalt find no way open to thee other than to embrace the Cause of God and to implore that the matter of thine allegiance be brought to the attention of Him Whom God shall make manifest, that He may graciously enable thee to prosper and cause thy fire to be transformed into light.

The Báb, "Selections from the Writings of the Báb", 1.7.3

This clearly indicates that the Sherif of Mecca will still be alive when Him Whom God shall make manifest comes.

Lol He Whom God SHALL MAKE MANIFEST was born before The Bab was born. I'd think that such a thing would ring alarm bells.

Let's say your totally right, then that makes Mirza Husayn-Ali Nuri: "He Whom God Made Manifest Before You Were" (aka before The Bab himself).

Just can't make up how silly this is.

As I've already said, 15 years is by far not enough time for the maturation of the Babi/Bayani dispensation and Mirza Husayn-Ali Nuri was not appointed by The Bab. Anyone who has read The Bab's works would get red alarm bells, unfortunately Baha'i's don't care about The Bab's writings or the validity of their truth claims.