Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

[CG Didymus]

Way out of my current understanding, we do not have an authorized translation of those verses. I have access to the translations done both from the french, or the first book done by a Bayani, but they may fall well short.

I did start reading parts of those translations and see it is a very profound work, basically dedicated to the 'One whom God would make Manifest'.

"So in number systems of that time, words are comprised of letters which have a numerical value, to which we see in that verse.
Number of the Name of God which is Ghiyath (1511) has passed, enter into it. If he does not show up at that time and tarries until the number of the Name of God which is Mustaghath (2001)"

I do not know the original Arabic word, so I can not say if these numbers do reflect those quoted words.

When using the numerical system the number can be reduced to the single digit. So 1511 can be seen as 8 and 2001 can be been as 3.

All the best, it will take scholars of the future to unravel a lot of this.

Regards Tony

Here's some of the stuff I found. This is E.G. Browne...
"t may be inferred that the Bab expected that the next Manifestation would be separated from his, own by an interval of time more or less commensurate with those intervals which had separated previous Dispensations. Indeed the following texts from the Persian Bayan afford some ground for supposing that this interval was expected to be 1511 or 2001 years, these being the numbers represented by the numerical values of the words Ghiyath (غیاث) and Mustaghath (مستغاث)."
This work can be found here: http://www.bayanic.com...
See the section titled: "Development of the Bab's Doctrine."

A blog by a Babi had this...
According to the explicit text of the Persian Bayan, a divine revelation and its dispensation must reach its stage of maturity until another revelation comes to abrogate it. Moreover, within the Persian Bayan the Bab also states that the Bayan's promised one may appear either in 1511 or 2001 years from his own time. Elsewhere the Bab anticipates a series of mirrors and successors within the Bayan whose number total 19:

…as long as the sun shines all will be illumined by its radiance; and afterwards if one like him should arise then you will be guided by one similar to him, and you will be illumined by the radiance of God until it reaches/concludes with the unity (wāḥid)… (my trans)
In the same text quoted above, the Bab anticipates that such successors or mirrors will arise once every 66 years (which spans a period of 1254 years, i.e. 66 x 19). This clearly underscores that the Bab did not anticipate a future universal manifestation like himself before the completion of this cycle. In other writings, the Bab indicates that the Babi promised one will in the future be born to human parents, will have a childhood and go to school before his or her revelation. The original of this aforementioned document also exist and has been published.

1 The Persian Bayan is unequivocal that:

a No universal manifestation occurs unless a previous dispensation reaches its maturity. At the time of Baha'ullah's claim, the Bayan as a dispensation was only between 13-18 years old and its first Mirror was only in the 13th-18th year of his ministry.

b The anticipated timespan of the Bayan was to be similar to other dispensations, which means a duration of 1000 years and above.

c The Bab provides the numbers 1511 and 2001 as the years of this timespan until the Promised One of the Bayan appears.

d The Bab anticipated the erection of 18 shrines to the Letters of the Living and one for himself as the 19th before the appearance of the next manifestation.

2 The Bab anticipated a system of continuing hujjiya where 19 consecutive mirrors would appear every 66 years.

3 The Promised One of the Bayan is supposed to be the archetypal "return" of the Prophet Muhammad (ص).

What's going on Tony?

 

[Aupmanyav]

A Messenger of God is not an ordinary man. Messengers of God, what Baha’is normally refer to as Manifestations of God, ..

Back to Bahai language tricks!
If a manifestation is a messenger from Allah then why did you have to coin a different word, manifestation, for your uneducated 19th Century Iranian teacher? Why do not you say that the Iranian teacher was the messenger whom your Allah sent after Mohammad's time?
Manifestation has a different connotation than a messenger, more akin to the Hindu concept of avatara, descent, appearance, etc. Do you believe that your Iranian teacher was Allah in human form?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The problem... not only is it ignoring the context, but The Bab, or The Gate, and Baha'u'llah, or The Glory of God are titles. Any religious leader can call himself some name, like Yahweh or Maitreya. So that isn't all that great that the names they take on "fulfill" an out of context "prophecy". So can you fit The Bab and Baha'u'llah into the context of what is being said in Ezekiel?
Ezekiel 43 Then the man brought me to the gate facing east, 2 and I saw the glory of the God of Israel coming from the east. His voice was like the roar of rushing waters, and the land was radiant with his glory. 3 The vision I saw was like the vision I had seen when he came to destroy the city and like the visions I had seen by the Kebar River, and I fell facedown. 4 The glory of the Lord entered the temple through the gate facing east. 5 Then the Spirit lifted me up and brought me into the inner court, and the glory of the Lord filled the temple.

6 While the man was standing beside me, I heard someone speaking to me from inside the temple. 7 He said: “Son of man, this is the place of my throne and the place for the soles of my feet. This is where I will live among the Israelites forever. The people of Israel will never again defile my holy name—neither they nor their kings—by their prostitution and the funeral offerings for their kings at their death. 8 When they placed their threshold next to my threshold and their doorposts beside my doorposts, with only a wall between me and them, they defiled my holy name by their detestable practices. So I destroyed them in my anger. 9 Now let them put away from me their prostitution and the funeral offerings for their kings, and I will live among them forever.

Well the Glory of the Lord and the Gate, the Bab and Baha'u'llah ended up in Israel from the East.

The Faith of Baha'u'llah brought the Worship of One God back to Isreal, that teaching will now be carried forward. Baha'u'llah destroyed the Kings and Princes, the dynasties are gone.

The Universal House of Justice is the new Jerusalem, the Law goes out from Zion.

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

Now, in our own day, history repeats itself.
Those who would have men believe that religion is their own private property once more bring their efforts to bear against the Sun of Truth:

I too do not wonder as Bahais refuse to acknowledge the mahdi sent by Allah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of the Ahmadiyya Islam. That is not what your Iranian teacher said. He said you must accept messengers from Allah. Do not know who introduced darkness in the Bahai religion of refusing to acknowledge messengers from Allah? Abdul Baha, Shoghi or the House of Justice?

 

[SeekerOnThePath]

I too do not wonder as Bahais refuse to acknowledge the mahdi sent by Allah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of the Ahmadiyya Islam. That is not what your Iranian teacher said. He said you must accept messengers from Allah. Do not know who introduced darkness in the Bahai religion of refusing to acknowledge messengers from Allah? Abdul Baha, Shoghi or the House of Justice?

What's funny is that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the Mahdi according to the Sunni view (meaning his claims had to correspond to the Prophecies according to Sunni schools of thought).
But in Sunnism it is believed that Jesus would return (which is what Baha'u'llah also claimed he was).
In Ahmadiyya, it is believed that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is simaltaneously the Mahdi and the return of Jesus - yet oft-repeated Sunni Hadith state that when Jesus returns he will pray behind the Mahdi.
So Mirza Ghulam Ahmad prays behind himself?


Furthermore on the general scale here. Baha'i'sm claims to be the fulfillment of the Bayan (aka Babism). Babism/Bayani is rooted in the Shia view, in which doesn't have a return of Jesus (but there are still reported Hadith brought over from Sunni transmitters), as the Mahdi is the expected messianic figure not Jesus. Apart from the Mahdi, members of the Ahl al-Bayt are expected archetypal returns.
The Bab claimed to be the Mahdi in the Shia view, yet Baha'u'llah takes the Sunni view in order to skirt around the expectations in the Bayani/Babi view. So Baha'u'llah picks and chooses for his own convenience.
It's pretty crazy stuff.

Baha'u'llah's claims have no validity according to both Shia Islam (which is the basis of the Babi/Bayani tradition) and according to the Babi/Bayani tradition which is it's immediate supposed precursor.

 

[Aupmanyav]

SeekerOnThePath, I am an atheist Hindu. I have no personal interest in either Sunni, Shia, Bahai or Ahamadiyya versions of Islam. It is only the word jugglery of Bahais which surprises me. I believe all monotheist religions have pursued it right tom the days of Akhenaten and Zoroaster (don't know who lived earlier).

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Here's some of the stuff I found. This is E.G. Browne...
"t may be inferred that the Bab expected that the next Manifestation would be separated from his, own by an interval of time more or less commensurate with those intervals which had separated previous Dispensations. Indeed the following texts from the Persian Bayan afford some ground for supposing that this interval was expected to be 1511 or 2001 years, these being the numbers represented by the numerical values of the words Ghiyath (غیاث) and Mustaghath (مستغاث)."
This work can be found here: http://www.bayanic.com...
See the section titled: "Development of the Bab's Doctrine."

A blog by a Babi had this...
According to the explicit text of the Persian Bayan, a divine revelation and its dispensation must reach its stage of maturity until another revelation comes to abrogate it. Moreover, within the Persian Bayan the Bab also states that the Bayan's promised one may appear either in 1511 or 2001 years from his own time. Elsewhere the Bab anticipates a series of mirrors and successors within the Bayan whose number total 19:

…as long as the sun shines all will be illumined by its radiance; and afterwards if one like him should arise then you will be guided by one similar to him, and you will be illumined by the radiance of God until it reaches/concludes with the unity (wāḥid)… (my trans)
In the same text quoted above, the Bab anticipates that such successors or mirrors will arise once every 66 years (which spans a period of 1254 years, i.e. 66 x 19). This clearly underscores that the Bab did not anticipate a future universal manifestation like himself before the completion of this cycle. In other writings, the Bab indicates that the Babi promised one will in the future be born to human parents, will have a childhood and go to school before his or her revelation. The original of this aforementioned document also exist and has been published.

1 The Persian Bayan is unequivocal that:

a No universal manifestation occurs unless a previous dispensation reaches its maturity. At the time of Baha'ullah's claim, the Bayan as a dispensation was only between 13-18 years old and its first Mirror was only in the 13th-18th year of his ministry.

b The anticipated timespan of the Bayan was to be similar to other dispensations, which means a duration of 1000 years and above.

c The Bab provides the numbers 1511 and 2001 as the years of this timespan until the Promised One of the Bayan appears.

d The Bab anticipated the erection of 18 shrines to the Letters of the Living and one for himself as the 19th before the appearance of the next manifestation.

2 The Bab anticipated a system of continuing hujjiya where 19 consecutive mirrors would appear every 66 years.

3 The Promised One of the Bayan is supposed to be the archetypal "return" of the Prophet Muhammad (ص).

What's going on Tony?

Firstly I see both the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, even though seperated Manifestations, as intertwined.

Simply the Bab's Revelation was subject to the One whom God would make manifest.

There Is is a lot written on this topic.

Also one must read the whole story of Edward Granville Brown and make up their minds on some of the later offerings.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

Back to Bahai language tricks!
If a manifestation is a messenger from Allah then why did you have to coin a different word, manifestation, for your uneducated 19th Century Iranian teacher? Why do not you say that the Iranian teacher was the messenger whom your Allah sent after Mohammad's time?

Manifestation has a different connotation than a messenger, more akin to the Hindu concept of avatara, descent, appearance, etc. Do you believe that your Iranian teacher was Allah in human form?

Baha'u'lah was a Manifestation of God and a Messenger of God and a Servant of God. The Only Sense in which Baha’u’llah was God is that He manifested the Attributes and Names of God. He was the Voice of God, but He was not God. The following passage explains this:

“Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God,” He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His names and His attributes, are made manifest in the world....... And were any of them to voice the utterance, “I am the Messenger of God,” He, also, speaketh the truth, the indubitable truth..........For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. They are all the manifestation of the “Beginning” and the “End,” the “First” and the “Last,” the “Seen” and the “Hidden”—all of which pertain to Him Who is the Innermost Spirit of Spirits and Eternal Essence of Essences. And were they to say, “We are the Servants of God,” this also is a manifest and indisputable fact. For they have been made manifest in the uttermost state of servitude, a servitude the like of which no man can possibly attain. Thus in moments in which these Essences of Being were deep immersed beneath the oceans of ancient and everlasting holiness, or when they soared to the loftiest summits of Divine mysteries, they claimed their utterances to be the Voice of Divinity, the Call of God Himself.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 54-55

 

[Trailblazer]

I too do not wonder as Bahais refuse to acknowledge the mahdi sent by Allah, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of the Ahmadiyya Islam. That is not what your Iranian teacher said. He said you must accept messengers from Allah. Do not know who introduced darkness in the Bahai religion of refusing to acknowledge messengers from Allah?

You know what Baha'u'llah wrote about anyone who claims to have a direct Revelation from God coming after Him, because I have posted it to you more than once, but there it is again:

“Whoso layeth claim to a Revelation direct from God, ere the expiration of a full thousand years, such a man is assuredly a lying impostor. We pray God that He may graciously assist him to retract and repudiate such claim. Should he repent, God will, no doubt, forgive him. If, however, he persisteth in his error, God will, assuredly, send down one who will deal mercilessly with him. Terrible, indeed, is God in punishing! Whosoever interpreteth this verse otherwise than its obvious meaning is deprived of the Spirit of God and of His mercy which encompasseth all created things. Fear God, and follow not your idle fancies. Nay, rather follow the bidding of your Lord, the Almighty, the All-Wise.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 346

 

[SeekerOnThePath]

I am an atheist Hindu. I have no personal interest in either Sunni, Shia, Bahai or Ahamadiyya versions of Islam. It is only the word jugglery of Bahais which surprises me. I believe all monotheist religions have pursued it right tom the days of Akhenaten and Zoroaster (don't know who lived earlier).

Yeah fair enough dude, I don't disagree.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

What's funny is that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimed to be the Mahdi according to the Sunni view (meaning his claims had to correspond to the Prophecies according to Sunni schools of thought).

Actually Baha'u'llah did not have to claim to be the fulfillment of any branch of any Faith. It is God that chooses and sends the Messengers that fulfill prophecy.

Any prophecy recorded, that was actually the word given of God for the end of ages was for both the Bab and Baha'u'llah.

".. The time foreordained unto the peoples and kindreds of the earth is now come. The promises of God, as recorded in the holy Scriptures, have all been fulfilled. Out of Zion hath gone forth the Law of God, and Jerusalem, and the hills and land thereof, are filled with the glory of His Revelation... "

Regards Tony

 

[Aupmanyav]

The Only Sense in which Baha’u’llah was God is that He manifested the Attributes and Names of God. He was the Voice of God, but He was not God.

What attributes you ascribe to your Allah? Is he immortal? Is he omni-present? Is he omni-powerful? Was your uneducated 19th Century Iranian preacher immortal? Was he omni-present? Was he omni-powerful? If he was not, then why do you say that he manifested (showed) the attributes of Allah? And how could he be the voice of Allah? You are using the words deceptively. If (and that is a big if) he was a messenger from Allah (there is no evidence to show that he was one. The only evidence he offered was that he had a vision of the 'maid of heaven'. Don't know if he was awake or sleeping at that time. Don't know if it was a dream or a hallucination), then he was repeating what Allah had asked him to say. That will not be the voice of Allah (words of Allah, may be).

 

[SeekerOnThePath]

Earlier post...but...

The oneness thing though seemed to be something stated by the prior Muslim people and their Qur'an thing, then the Free-Masons, Napoleon seemed to say it even, and so the idea of a Universal One Religion seems to have been present already, most particularly in the Qur'an and Islam, where it says something like "There is Only One Religion" and that the same message was brought to mankind repeatedly throughout history and stuff. The Muslims also seem to have been one of the most successful in actually making it appear that way with their huge amounts of varying nations and people who all started following this One Religion. It seems as though that Baha'u'llah was mentioning these ideas but as of yet has not really had as much success based on the population of Bahai people with the literature or spread of the ideas or following as compared to Islam still (which seems to say the same thing basically).

Yes you're completely correct, I've observed the same thing. Although the concept of the Catholic Church ("The Universal Church") has precedent from an institutional POV, from the POV of the doctrine of oneness (issuing out from Revelation itself and not institution), Islam holds that precedent millennia ahead of Masons and similar groups, including Baha'i's.

Such Quranic verses/ayahs you refer to are as following:

˹O prophets!˺ Indeed, this religion of yours is ˹only˺ one, and I am your Lord, so worship Me ˹alone˺.
(Qur'an, Surah 21:92)

Surely this religion of yours is ˹only˺ one, and I am your Lord, so fear Me ˹alone˺.
(Qur'an Surah 23:52)

Plus there are those several verses/ayahs that address Jews and Christians, calling them "sects", and saying they split the one religion.

Then there are the verses (misinterpreted by Islamophobic idiots) which state that the one religion prevails over all other 'religions', [verses] of which function in conjunction to the notions the Qur'an lays out about the primordial religion delivered by all of the Prophets since the beginning of time. Etc.
Nonetheless, it is an idea which produces great awe.

Speaking of which, all the Muslims turn their face to the One Alien Cube for their One Alien God of the One Alien Religion, do the Bahai have any particular place they turn their face to when they perform worship similar to the Muslim style of worship?

Lol, in a scifi manner I unironically love this description. As I've already said to you (I think), Islam is the religion of the space-age, even more than Thelema. There have already been aspects of counterculture and scifi movies that even allude to this, indirectly. Islam does have a celestial quality that other religions don't have (although to some degree aspects of Hinduism and Buddhism are celestial, but not in the grand scale, aside from ten-story big Shiva statues).

 

[CG Didymus]

Firstly I see both the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah, even though seperated Manifestations, as intertwined.

Simply the Bab's Revelation was subject to the One whom God would make manifest.

There Is is a lot written on this topic.

Also one must read the whole story of Edward Granville Brown and make up their minds on some of the later offerings.

Regards Tony

So there's no "official" interpretation of what this 1511 and 2001 mean? When I was around the Baha'i Faith there was very little said about The Bab. Just that he declared himself in 1844. Samuel Morse said that thing about what has God wrought. William Miller said Jesus would come back that year. And later, The Bab was shot, in the second try, by a firing squad. Then all moves on to Baha'u'llah. That's not much for someone who is supposedly a manifestation.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

So there's no "official" interpretation of what this 1511 and 2001 mean? When I was around the Baha'i Faith there was very little said about The Bab. Just that he declared himself in 1844. Samuel Morse said that thing about what has God wrought. William Miller said Jesus would come back that year. And later, The Bab was shot, in the second try, by a firing squad. Then all moves on to Baha'u'llah. That's not much for someone who is supposedly a manifestation.

I am not aware of any Official translation nor discussion on that topic. The Bab mission was to prepare the way. Elijah always comes first, remember John was also Elijah, as was the Bab. In this age God sent Elijah in the station of a Manifestation. I am not sure why, it may be it is starting to show the oneness of all Manifestations and their forerunners. I ask myself, who was John conversing with prior to Christ?

I see the sections of the Bayan and the Baha'i Writings that both Abdul'baha and Shoghi Effendi saw needed to be imparted to us, in this time, have been translated. There is so much of those translations available, and so much to learn from them, that I see what remains untranslated is not yet important to pursue.

If the world had found unity, then it would be a different song we could sing. All great scholars and historians would be working together to unravel the truth and to translate all that was given and still remains.

It is sad to know, because of our actions that a lot of this Revelation was lost in this time.

This is another reason I offer Bible Prophecy is timeless. Christ said he would Guide us to all Truth. The Bab and Baha'u'llah came to give us all Truth and the greater percentage, even though they go to their places of worship calling on God to fulfil the promises, rejected the fulfilment.

So when will mankind start working together to unravel the Truth given? Everything we can be, was released by the Message of the Bab and Baha'u'llah showed us our full potential.

But still, not many are interested, still content to cling on to their material pursuits, afraid of making a change, a change in self that benefits all humanity as a whole.

Life goes on in that light, Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

If something is miraculous, it is that these events which took place in some little corner of the world in the 1800s have reached a few people in the West and have made them filled with love and admiration for a man they never knew personally

Sorry I have missed a lot of your questions. I see you have a very busy mind which covers so many topics

It is good to consider that the Bab in a very short time was reported to have already had a million followers in Persia and this is what attracted interest from the West. The Bab's Message was reported in the West in very early days.

This is also what started the persecution. The Ilam divines saw their influence and power over minds being lost and the rest is now history. They tried to wipe the Message out. This is one way God gives us a chance to see the power contained in the Message. The fact no human or nation of humans, can wipe it out.

All the best in your search, I expect you will find what your heart is looking for.

Regards Tony

 

[Trailblazer]

What attributes you ascribe to your Allah? Is he immortal? Is he omni-present? Is he omni-powerful?

Some of God’s attributes that are unique to God are as follows: Eternal, Holy, Unchanging, Impassable, Infinite, Omnipresent, All-Powerful, All-Knowing, All-Wise, Self-Existent, Self-Sufficient, Sovereign, and Immaterial.

Was your uneducated 19th Century Iranian preacher immortal? Was he omni-present? Was he omni-powerful? If he was not, then why do you say that he manifested (showed) the attributes of Allah?

God is unique, and no man, not even a Manifestation of God, shares the attributes of God that are unique to God, as noted above.

Some of God’s attributes that are shared by the Manifestations of God are as follows: Benevolent, Compassionate, Loving, Gracious, Merciful, Just, Righteous, Forgiving, and Patient.

And how could he be the voice of Allah? You are using the words deceptively. If (and that is a big if) he was a messenger from Allah (there is no evidence to show that he was one.

There is no proof but there is evidence that indicates that He was a Manifestation of God.

The only evidence he offered was that he had a vision of the 'maid of heaven'. Don't know if he was awake or sleeping at that time. Don't know if it was a dream or a hallucination), then he was repeating what Allah had asked him to say. That will not be the voice of Allah (words of Allah, may be).

As I have told you before His vision of the 'maid of heaven' is not the evidence because a claim is not evidence.
Anyone can make a claim, but unless it is backed up by evidence it is worthless.

What do I mean by evidence? I mean His own Self (His character), His Revelation (His works, which can be seen in Baha'i history), and His words (His Writings).

 

[DagonVarunaMitraApolloZan]

Sorry I have missed a lot of your questions. I see you have a very busy mind which covers so many topics

It is good to consider that the Bab in a very short time was reported to have already had a million followers in Persia and this is what attracted interest from the West. The Bab's Message was reported in the West in very early days.

This is also what started the persecution. The Ilam divines saw their influence and power over minds being lost and the rest is now history. They tried to wipe the Message out. This is one way God gives us a chance to see the power contained in the Message. The fact no human or nation of humans, can wipe it out.

All the best in your search, I expect you will find what your heart is looking for.

Regards Tony

Do Bahai pray 5 times a day to Allah still? Do they pray in English usually now or in Persian/Farsi or in Arabic? Do they do those same motions, or perform ablution or cleansing first and then basically say the prayers in the Muslim fashion during the 5 different times of the day? Do they fast? Is giving in charity a big thing like the Muslim Zakat?

The 5 Pillars of Islam are that one believes there is one God and believes in the Qur'an and that Muhammed was a messenger and the books and revelations and angels and whatever of the seen and unseen mentioned in the Qur'an, and then its I think Worshipping Allah in the Salat throughout the day, and Charity, and Fasting, and then finally the pilgrimage, which the Muslims are supposed to go to Mecca at least once in their lifetime if possible. It almost seems like those are in order maybe from most important or within possibility and ease to more difficult, I may have stated them out of order or mis-stated them but anyway, do the Bahai do some of those or all of those? I know that they probably don't go to Pilgrimage to Mecca or turn towards Mecca when they pray or worship, I wonder about fasting practices and when they do it or if they do a Ramadan type thing or even at Ramadan do it or other times, or if they have their own Hajj type things and times and when these developed, and how about the importance of regular charity, I think they probably do the charity thing at least. I am certain I have heard that they pray in a fashion similar to Muslims at least, which I want to know all about the details of that practice and its development for the Bahai, and then I also know they believe in One God only.

If one believes in One God, Worships One God in the Muslim fashion or similar throughout the day, then they are pretty much a Muslim in my view, and then more so even if they give in charity, if they fast for self restraint in the Muslim fashion of not eating or drinking from shortly before sunrise to shortly after sunset for a month every year and any extra, and perform some sort of pilgrimage or journey.

Details like if they turn their face to Mecca or not (though I'd prefer that they are aware of the Qur'an or turn to Mecca or the East as the Oracle of Apollo had stated at Didyma or something), and if they go to Mecca or not, are not very important to me overall or crucial or necessary seeming to me, as these things may not have been Universally practiced before Muhammed except by certain groups of people, but the universal aspects that were quite common, such as the belief in God and worship of God in this way with cleansing and prostrations, that I think is what makes one a Muslim more and separates one from being a disbeliever.

Do the Bahai clean their bums and genitals when they go to bathroom like the Muslims do? Muslims, as far as I am aware, try to be clean at all times, so that when they go to the bathroom or urinate or defecate they thoroughly wash themselves with water (even their hands). Are Bahai taught this and do this? It is highly likely that Bab and Baha'u'llah were in the habit of cleaning themselves in this fashion which is common in the region and among all Muslims, which they at least grew up being. Were they raised in Shia families or Sunni?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Do Bahai pray 5 times a day to Allah still? Do they pray in English usually now or in Persian/Farsi or in Arabic?

We have 3 Obligatory Prayers to choose from, One which is chosen to say each day. We also say Allah'u'abha 95 times a day.

That is the Obligatory prayer requirement. We also have a 19 day fast sunrise to sunset.

Off to work now, sorry.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

The 5 Pillars of Islam are that one believes there is one God and believes in the Qur'an and that Muhammed was a messenger and the books and revelations and angels and whatever of the seen and unseen mentioned in the Qur'an, and then its I think Worshipping Allah in the Salat throughout the day, and Charity, and Fasting, and then finally the pilgrimage, which the Muslims are supposed to go to Mecca at least once in their lifetime if possible.

We also have simular requirements written in law and Faith. Yes we also have ablutions required before obligatory prayer. That depends of which prayer is chosen.

All male Baha'i are to attend pilgrimage at least once in their lives. There has been no requirement set for women.

There are so many answers to your many questions. You are like a sponge and I am only a sprinkle.

Regards Tony