Quran is free of errors

[Zhakir]

This is simply over interpretation Zhakir. You are simply bending the koran over backwards to make it fit reality. You are free to do so, but you do much more damage to your claim of the koran being divine when you do such revisionistic tactics like this. You can’t claim the koran is scientific when makes the two contradictory claims that mountains are both immoveable and are moving like clouds.

Considering that one of the central reason science has the power it does is due to its unambiguous nature, to claim that the most ambiguous passages of the koran are scientific is … well…simple pointless.

I had one of the most pathetic idiotic ‘debates’ with Fatihah over this. It starts here and continues with some of the daftest linguistic and mental gymnastics I’ve ever seen from someone in denial. Mountains do not prevent shaking since mountain regions are among the most active earthquake regions on earth. Feel free to attempt a response in that thread – I’m wondering can you actually manage to be even more ridiculous than Fatihah was?

Do you know how do you look like when you misquote me? just reply to all what i said incontext
The Mountains are immovable from earth.this is what the Quran says
But they Move with earth
88- When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving like clouds. Such is the artistry of God, who disposes of all things in perfect order. He is indeed fully aware of what you do.
27-The Ant, 88 .
Another thing that mountains do,is that they prevent earth from shaking this is what مستقر or قرار used in the verse translated firm means.
The earth according to the Quran Moves but doesn't shake.
21:30-32
Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? Wemade from water every living thing. Will they not then believe?
And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with them, and We have made therein broad highways (between mountains) for them to pass through: that they may receive Guidance.
And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!
-----------------------
This was recently discoverd,Again how did these people of the 7th century know
That mountain prevent earth from shaking?
Quran Miracles | MOUNTAINS AS PEGS

Quote:
31- “And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm lest it should shake with them.”
21-The Prophets, 31

Actually, the crust of the earth floats on a liquid. This outermost layer of the earth extends 5 km from the surface. The depths of the mountain strata go as far down as 35 km. Thus, the mountains are sort of pegs driven into the earth. Just like the pegs used to stabilize a tent on the ground, so these pegs stabilize the crust of the earth. Mountains are the outcome of collisions between strata of the earth’s crust; the result of the encroachment of a given stratum on another one. These strata that go deeper and deeper enable the crust layers to
integrate.

Isostasy is defined in the Webster’s Third New Twentieth Century Dictionary as follows: “Isostasy is the general equilibrium in the earth’s crust, maintained by a yielding flow of rock material beneath the surface under gravitate stress, and by the approximate equality in mass of each unit column of the earth from the surface to a depth of about 100 km.” At a time when mountains were viewed as mere prominences, the Quran’s reference to mountains’ strata invisible to the eye and their stabilization role leaves us in awe.

 

[themadhair]

Do you know how do you look like when you misquote me? just reply to all what i said incontext

Rereading my previous post I do not believe I either misquoted you or took anything you said out of context.

You are using the koran to support two contradictory claims regarding mountains. You are actually inventing context in a futile attempt to resolve this.

I linked to the relevant portion of the thread where I had a long, and ultimately pointless, discussion with Fatihah on the topic of mountains and how they do not prevent shaking of the earth. This discussion went into some detail so I don’t really see the point in repeating it here. Claiming that mountains stabilise the crust of the earth is flat out wrong and the discussion in the other thread addressed that in painful detail.

 

[Zhakir]

They are not two contradictions,the mountains are sticked to earth,and move along with it.
they are two miracles.

88- When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving like clouds. Such is the artistry of God, who disposes of all things in perfect order. He is indeed fully aware of what you do.
---
31- “And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm lest it should shake with them.”
21-The Prophets, 31
And it's immpossiable for any one to find these two facts out in the 7th century.

 

[themadhair]

They are not two contradictions,the mountains are sticked to earth,and move along with it.

I’ve read them through for the 14th time Zhakir and it still looks clear as day that they are contradicting each other.

You cannot hold to the claim that mountains were placed/set on the earth (Sura 27.61) in light of plate tectonics. This passage is pretty unambiguous and absolutist that the mountains are immoveable. You yourself are inventing the context of immoveable from the earth which is still false due to (1) erosion and (2) the fact that the Himalayas are rising.
Your contextual gymnastics have thrown up another problem for you – you are attempting to draw a distinction between the ‘earth’ (I assume you means landmass otherwise this makes even less sense) and the ‘mountains on the earth’ which, as evidenced by plate tectonics, is a false distinction since those mountains are formed by the earth uplifting. In other words, the mountains don’t move with the earth but rather they move because they are part of the earth and the earth is moving.

Mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking as should be obvious from reading this long, protracted and embarrassing thread.

 

[Zhakir]

Please don't misquote and try to responde to all what a i say in context
They move because they are part of they earth,so they move with the earth just like us
The question you need to answer is how did the so claimed to be people in the 7th century know this?
88- When you look at the mountains, you think that they are standing still. But they are moving like clouds. Such is the artistry of God, who disposes of all things in perfect order. He is indeed fully aware of what you do.
---
And the mountains prevent earth from shaking,
read all Quran Miracles | MOUNTAINS AS PEGS

31- “And We have set on the earth mountains standing firm lest it should shake with them.”
21-The Prophets, 31

Actually, the crust of the earth floats on a liquid. This outermost layer of the earth extends 5 km from the surface. The depths of the mountain strata go as far down as 35 km. Thus, the mountains are sort of pegs driven into the earth. Just like the pegs used to stabilize a tent on the ground, so these pegs stabilize the crust of the earth. Mountains are the outcome of collisions between strata of the earth’s crust; the result of the encroachment of a given stratum on another one. These strata that go deeper and deeper enable the crust layers to
integrate.

Isostasy is defined in the Webster’s Third New Twentieth Century Dictionary as follows: “Isostasy is the general equilibrium in the earth’s crust, maintained by a yielding flow of rock material beneath the surface under gravitate stress, and by the approximate equality in mass of each unit column of the earth from the surface to a depth of about 100 km.” At a time when mountains were viewed as mere prominences, the Quran’s reference to mountains’ strata invisible to the eye and their stabilization role leaves us in awe.

It's immpossiable for any one to find these two facts out in the 7th century.

 

[YmirGF]

Mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking as should be obvious from reading this long, protracted and embarrassing thread.

Oh that one was exquisite, themadhair. Zhakir, please note that Fatihah withdrew from that conversation after I said in post #380, "Your argument is defeated. Try to take it graciously."

This was a great combined effort of RF members against the deeply entrenched pegs in Fatihah's understanding. To his credit, Fatihah did a pretty good job of deflection until he understood that he was boxed in and couldn't get out.

Also, bear in mind that this followed on the heels of another discussion between Fatihah and I where I clearly defeated the idea of evidence of the Big Bang theory in the Qur'an... and once again... in true form, Fatihah left that conversation.

So... if you want to retain any credibility on RF whatsoever... you really should think long and hard about all this.

It's immpossiable for any one to find these two facts out in the 7th century.

Zhakir, this particular "Scientific Miracle in the Qur'an" was discussed ending just last week. The idea was defeated! Do not rehash this garbage because you are too lazy to go and read that thread in its entirety.

 

[themadhair]

Please don't misquote and try to responde to all what a i say in context

Is this a deliberate distraction technique? I reiterate that I neither misquoted you or took your words out of context.

Slightly ironic that you are accusing me of the very thing you are doing to the koran though isn't it?

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Please don't misquote and try to responde to all what a i say in context.

This is about the 400th time you've asked someone not to take what you say (or the text of the Koran) out of context.

Not once has anyone taken anything out of context. It is you that has bent, twisted, folded, and mutilated the verbiage of the Koran in an attempt to justify your beliefs.

Just give it up. You and eselam have made a claim that has been thoroughly refuted - over and over again.

This whole thing boils down to one immutable fact - YOU ARE WRONG. It has been shown to you repeatedly, and your inability to admit it just makes you look immature, stubborn, and foolish.

 

[Fatihah]

Rereading my previous post I do not believe I either misquoted you or took anything you said out of context.

You are using the koran to support two contradictory claims regarding mountains. You are actually inventing context in a futile attempt to resolve this.

I linked to the relevant portion of the thread where I had a long, and ultimately pointless, discussion with Fatihah on the topic of mountains and how they do not prevent shaking of the earth. This discussion went into some detail so I don’t really see the point in repeating it here. Claiming that mountains stabilise the crust of the earth is flat out wrong and the discussion in the other thread addressed that in painful detail.

Response: This is what I call "punchdrunk". When the person is down for the count they still are drunk with the idea to keep on punching despite the loss. Here you are again, producing the same illogical argument concerning mountains with absolutely no proof that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking. Absolutely none. Where is your proof. There is not a science book in the world that says that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking and I challenge you to produce a reliable science book or website that says that mountains do not prevent shakes in the earth. That's a challenge.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

That's a challenge.

That's not a challenge - it's a criminally stupid post.

 

[themadhair]

Here you are again, producing the same illogical argument concerning mountains with absolutely no proof that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking. Absolutely none. Where is your proof.

Does a k-6 textbook count? That is called elementary or primary school level outside the US.

At converging plate boundaries, two situations are possible. First, both volcanoes and earthquakes form where one plate sinks under the other. This process, called subduction, takes place because one plate is denser than the other. The denser plate, which invariably has oceanic crust on its top, does the sinking. Second, only earthquakes occur when two plates collide (obduct), building a mountain range. The density of continental crust is too low for it to subduct, like wood floating on water. Instead, the two plates have a head on collision - building a mountain range. The Himalaya Mountains in Asia formed this way, from a collision between the Indian and Asian Plates. At transform plate boundaries, the two plates slide by each other. This generates little volcanic activity (there is no "gap" between the plates) or mountain building. Earthquakes, however, are common.

There is not a science book in the world that says that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking and I challenge you to produce a reliable science book or website that says that mountains do not prevent shakes in the earth. That's a challenge.

I will do just that when you can find a reliable textbook that states that Alpha Centurai does not prevent cancer. It makes as much sense.

FFS fatihah, the knowledge of plate tectonics that explains why mountain regions are among the most seismically active regions on earth is so well understood that even primary school textbooks on the subject teach actually teach why this is so. Is this evidence that your education never extended beyond primary school????

 

[Fatihah]

Oh that one was exquisite, themadhair. Zhakir, please note that Fatihah withdrew from that conversation after I said in post #380, "Your argument is defeated. Try to take it graciously."

Response: Withdrew from the conversation? How so?

Quote: YmirGF
This was a great combined effort of RF members against the deeply entrenched pegs in Fatihah's understanding. To his credit, Fatihah did a pretty good job of deflection until he understood that he was boxed in and couldn't get out.

Also, bear in mind that this followed on the heels of another discussion between Fatihah and I where I clearly defeated the idea of evidence of the Big Bang theory in the Qur'an... and once again... in true form, Fatihah left that conversation.

So... if you want to retain any credibility on RF whatsoever... you really should think long and hard about all this.


Zhakir, this particular "Scientific Miracle in the Qur'an" was discussed ending just last week. The idea was defeated! Do not rehash this garbage because you are too lazy to go and read that thread in its entirety.

Response: I find it very amusing how you and themadhair frequently use my name and claim these alleged victories in a discussion throughout the forum. Like I said, it's called "punchdrunk". You've been handed a loss and instead of accepting it, you freely use my name in your posts in an effort to get people on your side and ignore the loss in which you was delivered. Why else would two individuals insist on talking behind the person's back instead of adressing the person directly? How sad it is.

 

[YmirGF]

That's a challenge.

Actually no, Fatihah, it is an example of breathtaking stupidity.

How sad it is.

Indeed, Fatihah, you are very sad. I have clearly defeated your thinking now on two occaisions. If you wish to think you have somehow made a "win" then hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. I don't think any person with average or above average intelligence will be fooled by your shallow little games... least of all Allah.

Is this direct enough for ya, big fellah?

 

[Gharib]

Actually no, Fatihah, it is an example of breathtaking stupidity.

is that the best you can do YmirGF? use the simple way out

Indeed, Fatihah, you are very sad. I have clearly defeated your thinking now on two occaisions. If you wish to think you have somehow made a "win" then hey, whatever helps you sleep at night. I don't think any person with average or above average intelligence will be fooled by your shallow little games... least of all Allah.

and how did you win the argument, because you say so?

thats a laugh, YmirGF, nothing more.

 

[Fatihah]

Does a k-6 textbook count? That is called elementary or primary school level outside the US.

Response: I said to provide proof "that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking". Did you do that? No! You provided information that shows what causes earthquakes. So once again, your own response shows that you have absolutely no proof.

Quote: themadhair
I will do just that when you can find a reliable textbook that states that Alpha Centurai does not prevent cancer. It makes as much sense.

Response: Again, not a single proof. Once again you've completely failed to give an answer.

Quote: themadhair
FFS fatihah, the knowledge of plate tectonics that explains why mountain regions are among the most seismically active regions on earth is so well understood that even primary school textbooks on the subject teach actually teach why this is so. Is this evidence that your education never extended beyond primary school????

Response: Look at the tactic. After after failing to provide any proof and answering a direct question, you've now reduced your argument insult. Common tactics for one who can't accept defeat.

 

[YmirGF]

is that the best you can do YmirGF? use the simple way out



and how did you win the argument, because you say so?

thats a laugh, YmirGF, nothing more.

You are such an amusing little fellow, Eselam. God bless you. You make my work here so much easier. Keep up the great posts.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

is that the best you can do YmirGF? use the simple way out

and how did you win the argument, because you say so?

thats a laugh, YmirGF, nothing more.

There simply is no "bottom" for you and Fatihah, is there?

 

[Fatihah]

That's not a challenge - it's a criminally stupid post.

Response: If it is, one can clearly see what your post is.

 

[YmirGF]

There simply is no "bottom" for you and Fatihah, is there?

It does give us a rather penetrating glance into the minds of religious fanatics. I'll bet Allah is impressed.

Response: If it is, one can clearly see what your post is.

His post is a rather astute observation based on the facts at hand.

 

[Gharib]

You are such an amusing little fellow, Eselam. God bless you. You make my work here so much easier. Keep up the great posts.

i did mentione the easy way out didn't i?

may god bless me indeed.

i make your work easy yes, you are dealing with a younger person whom you have to dissprove, but we all know the outcome, easy way out.

thanks for the encourangement.