Quran is free of errors

[Gharib]

There simply is no "bottom" for you and Fatihah, is there?

there doesn't seem to be a "bottom" for you, so why should there be one for me?

are you going to tell what to do?

 

[Gharib]

It does give us a rather penetrating glance into the minds of religious fanatics. I'll bet Allah is impressed.

well it also gives us a glance into the minds of humans who are so blinded that to them humans are equal to animals. now what do you expect of such a person.

 

[themadhair]

Response: I said to provide proof "that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking".

I did actually. I linked to a relevant source and quoted the relevant portion that explains how earthquakes happen and how mountains form. Because mountains are formed by the same phenomena that leads to earthquakes, specifically colliding plates, it is obvious that those mountains do not help prevent earthquakes. It would appear that, despite the concept being sufficiently simple that the US educational authorities believed it primary school level material, that it is too advanced for the koranic scientist.

You provided information that shows what causes earthquakes.

I did indeed, because the fact that earthquakes and mountains are caused by the same phenomena has direct relevance to refuting your claim that mountains prevent the earth from shaking.

I will do just that when you can find a reliable textbook that states that Alpha Centurai does not prevent cancer. It makes as much sense.

Response: Again, not a single proof. Once again you've completely failed to give an answer.

A textbook, Fatihah, isn’t a list of things that do not happen. It is a list, with the associated explanations, of what does happen. The interconnection of earthquakes and mountains is so well understood that it never occurred to any textbook-writer that they should emphasise the point that mountains do not prevent earthquakes for the benefit of the koranic scientists in the audience.

Just as you will not find the claim that Alpha Centurai does not prevent cancer you will not find the claim that mountains do not prevent earthquakes – simply because it is so bleeding obvious from the knowledge we have of plate tectonics that no one thought it worth mentioning.

Response: Look at the tactic. After after failing to provide any proof and answering a direct question, you've now reduced your argument insult. Common tactics for one who can't accept defeat.

This is something curious – you are making the claim that mountains prevent earthquakes (earthquakes are, by definition, quakes in the earth before you try and pull that one again) and I don’t seem to recall you producing any textbook or reliable website that has validated that claim. I, and others, have provided many links and references to substantiate our claims regarding the mechanisms of plate tectonics and how, from this knowledge, it is obvious that mountains do not prevent earthquakes. Material was also presented that demonstrated and empirically proved that mountainous regions are among the most active earthquake regions in the world.

And yet all you keep doing, Fatihah, is demanding more and more evidence while not understanding that which has already been presented. You even demand that textbooks must include a specific phrase in order to constitute evidence. I’m going to throw this back in your face Fatihah.

I demand that you present a peer-reviewed paper, or a textbook used in an accredited internationally recognised university geology course, that has the specific phrase “mountains prevent the earth from shaking”. I don’t hold my breath, but I certainly don’t see why you don’t live up to your own standards of proof.

 

[themadhair]

well it also gives us a glance into the minds of humans who are so blinded that to them humans are equal to animals.

Humans are animals.....

 

[Gharib]

Humans are animals.....

yeah heard that before, and look where it brought us, right into another animal.

 

[themadhair]

yeah heard that before, and look where it brought us, right into another animal.

Why do you have a negative connotation of animals?

 

[Gharib]

Why do you have a negative connotation of animals?

i don't, animals are animals, they can't think i have nothing against them. but you on the other hand.............?

 

[themadhair]

i don't, animals are animals, they can't think i have nothing against them.

Why do you believe animals can't think? If you seemingly have a need to downgrade animals I’d like to know the reason why.

I suspect the reason is because that, by denigrating animals, you can somehow feel superior. I also hope the reason is much less shallow but I’m not going to hold my breath.

 

[Gharib]

Why do you believe animals can't think? If you seemingly have a need to downgrade animals I’d like to know the reason why.

I suspect the reason is because that, by denigrating animals, you can somehow feel superior. I also hope the reason is much less shallow but I’m not going to hold my breath.

go ask your "animal" friend, about it ok.

i do not downgrade animals, they already are below humans, but sorry for offending you ancestors ok.

 

[themadhair]

go ask your "animal" friend, about it ok.

My dog displays affection. So I was right about this being an ego thing?

 

[Gharib]

My dog displays affection. So I was right about this being an ego thing?

i never denied yor rights, did i?

think what ever you wish.

BTW do you live with your dog, or does he live with you, and you sleep in the same dog house or the same human-dog house?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

i never denied yor rights, did i?

think what ever you wish.

BTW do you live with your dog, or does he live with you, and you sleep in the same dog house or the same human-dog house?

Would it be fair to say that a cat and a dog are both animals?

 

[Gharib]

Would it be fair to say that a cat and a dog are both animals?

yeah just like a cow and a goat are. whats your point?

 

[themadhair]

think what ever you wish.

I will do so. I consider the only meaningful differentiating factor between humans and other animals is the level of intelligence we possess. Other than that there is little basis to be made for placing humanity on a pedestal other than reasons founded in pure egotism.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

yeah just like a cow and a goat are. whats your point?

Both of them eat different things, sleep in different places and have different shapes. They can all carry out the 7 life proccesses, just as we can. So how are not animals?

Movement
Reproduction
Sensitivity
Nutrition
Excretion
Respiration
Growth

Us being animals is a scientific fact. It is undebatable. It is a concrete fact. It is like denying that Earth orbits the Sun.

 

[themadhair]

It is a concrete fact. It is like denying that Earth orbits the Sun.

Not subtle enough. Nice idea, not the best execution.

Definitionaly we are animals so calling it a 'scientific fact' doesn't make sense. Admittedly, being Hindu, you would be receptive to the idea that animals and humans are very alike. The reason why I am take the view of animals and humans being similar is because I don't see what is so special about humanity.

 

[The Voice of Reason]

Is it just me, or is anyone else expecting to hear Rod Serling look into a camera and tell us that we have just entered "The Twilight Zone"?

We have gone from trying to help eselam, Zhakir, and Fatihah understand that their chosen sacred text is not inerrant, has contradtictions, and was written by fallible humans - to trying to help this religious zealot understand that humans are simply animals with a high level of intelligence.

This is absolutely surreal. We are dealing with zealotry that is uncommon - even for fundamentalists in our country. I am beginning to think that Islam has much deeper issues than I ever dreamed it did. These people relish the possibility of ignoring reality.

 

[Fatihah]

I did actually. I linked to a relevant source and quoted the relevant portion that explains how earthquakes happen and how mountains form. Because mountains are formed by the same phenomena that leads to earthquakes, specifically colliding plates, it is obvious that those mountains do not help prevent earthquakes. It would appear that, despite the concept being sufficiently simple that the US educational authorities believed it primary school level material, that it is too advanced for the koranic scientist.

Response: Now after failing to provide proof that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking, you try to credit proof with an explaination. Nothing in which you stated says that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking. Your own "so-called" evidence is proving my argument. You now want to justify your stance and say that " Because mountains are formed by the same phenomena that leads to earthquakes, specifically colliding plates, it is obvious that those mountains do not help prevent earthquakes". But in order for your stance to be true now, you would now have to explain the connection. You now have to explain why the fact that mountains are formed by the same phenomenom that leads to earthquakes is proof that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking. But you have not. So you still have absolutely no proof.

Quote: themadhair
I did indeed, because the fact that earthquakes and mountains are caused by the same phenomena has direct relevance to refuting your claim that mountains prevent the earth from shaking.


A textbook, Fatihah, isn’t a list of things that do not happen. It is a list, with the associated explanations, of what does happen. The interconnection of earthquakes and mountains is so well understood that it never occurred to any textbook-writer that they should emphasise the point that mountains do not prevent earthquakes for the benefit of the koranic scientists in the audience.

Just as you will not find the claim that Alpha Centurai does not prevent cancer you will not find the claim that mountains do not prevent earthquakes – simply because it is so bleeding obvious from the knowledge we have of plate tectonics that no one thought it worth mentioning.

Response: Let me show you what you just said: "The interconnection of earthquakes and mountains is so well understood that it never occurred to any textbook-writer that they should emphasise the point that mountains do not prevent earthquakes for the benefit of the koranic scientists in the audience".

This statement alone shows that you have no proof from your own mouth!! Al Hamdu lilah!!! From your own admission, there is no science book on the face of the earth or website that specifically and directly says that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking. Al hamdu lilah. You have no proof! There is no proof! Period. What you have and what everyone else has provided is their own explaination as to why they "believe" that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking, not proof, because that proof does not exists. You can base this on your own statement as well as the simple fact that you can never, and will never, find a reliable science book, a reliable scientists, or a reliable science website, that says that mountains do not prevent the earth from shaking. Al hamdu lilah!

Quote: themadhair
This is something curious – you are making the claim that mountains prevent earthquakes (earthquakes are, by definition, quakes in the earth before you try and pull that one again) and I don’t seem to recall you producing any textbook or reliable website that has validated that claim. I, and others, have provided many links and references to substantiate our claims regarding the mechanisms of plate tectonics and how, from this knowledge, it is obvious that mountains do not prevent earthquakes. Material was also presented that demonstrated and empirically proved that mountainous regions are among the most active earthquake regions in the world.

And yet all you keep doing, Fatihah, is demanding more and more evidence while not understanding that which has already been presented. You even demand that textbooks must include a specific phrase in order to constitute evidence. I’m going to throw this back in your face Fatihah.

I demand that you present a peer-reviewed paper, or a textbook used in an accredited internationally recognised university geology course, that has the specific phrase “mountains prevent the earth from shaking”. I don’t hold my breath, but I certainly don’t see why you don’t live up to your own standards of proof.

Response: I've explained on numerous occasions that I am on this site through my blackberry phone so my ability to provide links is limited. However, I've always agreed and accepted the links in which others have provided and showed from their own link how mountains do prevent the earth from shaking.

As for my proof, well we must first understand each other.

Point 1.The qur'an says that mountains prevent the earth from shaking with us. This is not to say that it prevents earthquakes from happening. There is a difference. Earthquakes happen and will continue to happen. The qur'an does not deny this.

Point 2. We need to understand the way the word "prevent" and "earthquake" can be used. If I were to say to you that doctors use medicine to prevent a patient from being ill, it doesn't mean that the prevention is permanent. If I had a cold and let's say that I had a cup of tea which healed me from that cold, that cup of tea did "prevent" me from continuing to be ill, but it does not "prevent" me from ever having a cold again. As you can see, it's the same word, but it's meaning is not exactly the same depending on it's context.

Point 3. The arabic word for "earthquake" is "zilzal" or "zalzala" and in those verses these words are not there. This is what I mean when I say that the verse does not say earthquake. The arabic word is "tamida" which means to shake or swing.

With all of this said, let's now look and examine the theory of plate tectonics together from any reliable site of your choosing and we will come to learn together that mountains do prevent the earth from shaking.

 

[YmirGF]

With all of this said, let's now look and examine the theory of plate tectonics together from any reliable site of your choosing and we will come to learn together that mountains do prevent the earth from shaking.

Tell you what, Fatihah. You (and other Muslims) are the ones making these silly claims. It is not up to us to disprove your erroneous thinking, although that has already been done, repeatedly. If you have the slightest bit of intellectual integrity you will understand that the onus is on you (and other Muslims) to prove your point. As I told your earlier, the only way you can do that is to present your case to a group like the Geological Society of America or perhaps the Royal Society in England. If they approve your "research" we can all sit back and gaze in wonder at the genius of Muslim thinking.

IF you do that, I will be the first to stamp my feet in approval and offer effusive apologies. The thing is, we both know that is something that is never going to happen because there is no way the scientific community would even take the "research" seriously to begin with.

If you don't want people to point and laugh at you, don't pull your pants down in public.

 

[Fatihah]

Tell you what, Fatihah. You (and other Muslims) are the ones making these silly claims. It is not up to us to disprove your erroneous thinking, although that has already been done, repeatedly. If you have the slightest bit of intellectual integrity you will understand that the onus is on you (and other Muslims) to prove your point. As I told your earlier, the only way you can do that is to present your case to a group like the Geological Society of America or perhaps the Royal Society in England. If they approve your "research" we can all sit back and gaze in wonder at the genius of Muslim thinking.

IF you do that, I will be the first to stamp my feet in approval and offer effusive apologies. The thing is, we both know that is something that is never going to happen because there is no way the scientific community would even take the "research" seriously to begin with.

If you don't want people to point and laugh at you, don't pull your pants down in public.

Response: Claiming a false sense of victory is sad to begin with on your part. As for adressing my argument to a scientific community, if there's a scientific community who has isuue with the argument, then it will be adressed to them. But as you can see, there is none.