Response: Post 952
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Quran is free of errors
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Response: Post 952
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
Response: that isnt evidence of anything but your own self imposed ignorance. go read a book, and maybe make it a science book.
gnostic
The Lost One
Fatihah said:
Again, the fool Fatihah speaks.
Fatihah said:
No, your own argument is flawed, because the scientists can break down what they examine and separate what is the properties of the egg from the properties of bread.
You may not see the eggs, but if scientists examine and test the toast, they will know after the results, that eggs have been used, because they know the properties of an egg.
With that the scientists would have evidence that egg(s) were used in making the French Toast. And that would be proof.
If scientists and doctors, they will not find the properties of clay in any part of human body. PERIOD. So you have no proof.
fatihah said:
Once again, you don't know what you're talking about, and your own points are fatally flawed, because the scientists would know how to separate the properties of the sugar from the cereal.
As to the milk and cheese, the scientists not only the properties of the milk, which is where the cheese come from, because some areas make distinctive flavour cheese, but they will also know:
- whether the cheese is made from the milk of a cow or a goat,
- which type of cows (or goats) produce the type of milk,
- the cow's (or goat's) diet, etc,
- where did the cheese come in different distinctive flavours, and how they were made.
If people can distinguish cheese made from cow, from cheese made from goat, then there are evidences can be found examination, testing and verification.
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
clay
(klā
n.
(klā
n.
- A fine-grained, firm earthy material that is plastic when wet and hardens when heated, consisting primarily of hydrated silicates of aluminum and widely used in making bricks, tiles, and pottery.
- A hardening or nonhardening material having a consistency similar to clay and used for modeling.
- Geology A sedimentary material with grains smaller than 0.002 millimeters in diameter.
- Moist sticky earth; mud.
.lava
Veteran Member
clay
n.
- A fine-grained, firm earthy material that is plastic when wet and hardens when heated, consisting primarily of hydrated silicates of aluminum and widely used in making bricks, tiles, and pottery.
- A hardening or nonhardening material having a consistency similar to clay and used for modeling.
- Geology A sedimentary material with grains smaller than 0.002 millimeters in diameter.
- Moist sticky earth; mud.
any idea what's clay made of? i mean, what are the ingredients of clay?
.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Broken down rocks and minerals
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
Formation
Clay minerals are typically formed over long periods of time by the gradual chemical weathering of rocks, usually silicate-bearing, by low concentrations of carbonic acid and other diluted solvents. These solvents, usually acidic, migrate through the weathering rock after leaching through upper weathered layers. In addition to the weathering process, some clay minerals are formed by hydrothermal activity. Clay deposits may be formed in place as residual deposits, but thick deposits usually are formed as the result of a secondary sedimentary deposition process after they have been eroded and transported from their original location of formation. Clay deposits are typically associated with very low energy depositional environments such as large lake and marine deposits.
Primary clays, also known as kaolins, are located at the site of formation. Secondary clay deposits have been moved by erosion and water from their primary location[2].
Definition
Clays are distinguished from other fine-grained soils by differences in size and/or mineralogy. Silts, which are fine-grained soils which do not include clay minerals, tend to have larger particle sizes than clays, but there is some overlap in both particle size and other physical properties, and there are many naturally occurring deposits which include both silts and clays. The distinction between silt and clay varies by discipline. Geologists and soil scientists usually consider the separation to occur at a particle size of 2 µm (clays being finer than silts), sedimentologists often use 4-5 μm, and colloid chemists use 1 μm.[1] Geotechnical engineers distinguish between silts and clays based on the plasticity properties of the soil, as measured by the soils' Atterberg Limits. ISO 14688 grades clay particles as being smaller than 0.002 mm and silts larger.
Grouping
Depending on the academic source, there are three or four main groups of clays: kaolinite, montmorillonite-smectite, illite, and chlorite. Chlorites are not always considered a clay, sometimes being classified as a separate group within the phyllosilicates. There are approximately thirty different types of "pure" clays in these categories, but most "natural" clays are mixtures of these different types, along with other weathered minerals.
Varve (or varved clay) is clay with visible annual layers, formed by seasonal differences in erosion and organic content. This type of deposit is common in former glacial lakes.
Quick clay is a unique type of marine clay indigenous to the glaciated terrains of Norway, Canada, Northern Ireland and Sweden. It is a highly sensitive clay, prone to liquefaction, which has been involved in several deadly landslides.
Clay - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
[QUOTE:gnostic]
No, your own argument is flawed, because the scientists can break down what they examine and separate what is the properties of the egg from the properties of bread.
You may not see the eggs, but if scientists examine and test the toast, they will know after the results, that eggs have been used, because they know the properties of an egg.
With that the scientists would have evidence that egg(s) were used in making the French Toast. And that would be proof.
If scientists and doctors, they will not find the properties of clay in any part of human body. PERIOD. So you have no proof.
Response: Yes they will. And that's the whole point. You have absolutely no proof to the contrary. Just a redundant statement saying that it's not true. Saying it's not true is not proof.
Quote: gnostic
Once again, you don't know what you're talking about, and your own points are fatally flawed, because the scientists would know how to separate the properties of the sugar from the cereal.
As to the milk and cheese, the scientists not only the properties of the milk, which is where the cheese come from, because some areas make distinctive flavour cheese, but they will also know:
If people can distinguish cheese made from cow, from cheese made from goat, then there are evidences can be found examination, testing and verification.[/QUOTE]
Response: Then based on your own words, you should stop with the arguement that man is not created from clay because you can't physically see clay as you have said repeatedly.
No, your own argument is flawed, because the scientists can break down what they examine and separate what is the properties of the egg from the properties of bread.
You may not see the eggs, but if scientists examine and test the toast, they will know after the results, that eggs have been used, because they know the properties of an egg.
With that the scientists would have evidence that egg(s) were used in making the French Toast. And that would be proof.
If scientists and doctors, they will not find the properties of clay in any part of human body. PERIOD. So you have no proof.
Response: Yes they will. And that's the whole point. You have absolutely no proof to the contrary. Just a redundant statement saying that it's not true. Saying it's not true is not proof.
Quote: gnostic
Once again, you don't know what you're talking about, and your own points are fatally flawed, because the scientists would know how to separate the properties of the sugar from the cereal.
As to the milk and cheese, the scientists not only the properties of the milk, which is where the cheese come from, because some areas make distinctive flavour cheese, but they will also know:
- whether the cheese is made from the milk of a cow or a goat,
- which type of cows (or goats) produce the type of milk,
- the cow's (or goat's) diet, etc,
- where did the cheese come in different distinctive flavours, and how they were made.
If people can distinguish cheese made from cow, from cheese made from goat, then there are evidences can be found examination, testing and verification.[/QUOTE]
Response: Then based on your own words, you should stop with the arguement that man is not created from clay because you can't physically see clay as you have said repeatedly.
JMorris
Democratic Socialist
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
They wont. How many ******* times do i have to tell you that nothing in our bodies resembles clay in ANY WAY SHAPE OF FORM
Response: There's the statement. And again, no proof. Yes, from your own words, we see the truth in the qur'an. Amazing. A whole bunch of "We're not made of clay" but no evidence of the case. Just a continuous redundant statement of "it's not", has somehow justified in your mind that this is evidence and proof. How unfortunate it is.
.lava
Veteran Member
i hope i made it clear that i am not going to discuss over this. but i would like to give an example.
Thiamine P.A.E.C. (Vit B1) 11.1mg
Riboflavine sodium phosphate (Vit B2) 13.0mg
Nicotinamide (Vit B3) 40mg
Calcium pantothenate (Vit B5) 8.0mg
Pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vit B6) 3.0mg
Cyanocobalamin (Vit B12) 4mcg
Ascorbic acid (Vit C) 80.0mg
Ergocaliferol (Vit D2) 7.5mcg
Alpha Tocopheryl acetate (Vit E) 10.0mg
Biotin (Vit H) 200mcg
Folic acid 200mcg
Calcium 100mg
Magnesium 9.0mg
Iron (as Ferrous sulfate) 1.5mg
Copper 500mcg
Zinc 1.0mg
Manganese 500mcg
human technology and intellect put all this minerals and stuff into this:
i do not know what kind of reaction you'd get if you could take this pills back to old times and say there is iron, copper, zinc, magnanese...etc in each pill. maybe they would have laughed at you. i do not know. no doubt those pill look nothing like iron or zinc. it has completely new form. because it is not exactly iron or zinc itself. it is some kind of mixture of its ingredients. this is what human can do today. i consider human as art of God. a creature that God created. so it does not surprise me if technology and intellect of the Creator that created a creature who's able to make those pills was able to put these stuff below into human;
Oxygen
Carbon
Hydrogen
Nitrogen
Calcium
Phosphorus
Potassium
Sulfur
Chlorine
Sodium
Magnesium
Silicon
Iron
Zinc
Copper
Boron
Cobalt
Vanadium
Iodine
Selenium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Chromium
of course human has compeletly different form than clay or earth. we are not clay.
in case you care for how we perceive it.
thank you
.
Thiamine P.A.E.C. (Vit B1) 11.1mg
Riboflavine sodium phosphate (Vit B2) 13.0mg
Nicotinamide (Vit B3) 40mg
Calcium pantothenate (Vit B5) 8.0mg
Pyridoxine hydrochloride (Vit B6) 3.0mg
Cyanocobalamin (Vit B12) 4mcg
Ascorbic acid (Vit C) 80.0mg
Ergocaliferol (Vit D2) 7.5mcg
Alpha Tocopheryl acetate (Vit E) 10.0mg
Biotin (Vit H) 200mcg
Folic acid 200mcg
Calcium 100mg
Magnesium 9.0mg
Iron (as Ferrous sulfate) 1.5mg
Copper 500mcg
Zinc 1.0mg
Manganese 500mcg
human technology and intellect put all this minerals and stuff into this:
i do not know what kind of reaction you'd get if you could take this pills back to old times and say there is iron, copper, zinc, magnanese...etc in each pill. maybe they would have laughed at you. i do not know. no doubt those pill look nothing like iron or zinc. it has completely new form. because it is not exactly iron or zinc itself. it is some kind of mixture of its ingredients. this is what human can do today. i consider human as art of God. a creature that God created. so it does not surprise me if technology and intellect of the Creator that created a creature who's able to make those pills was able to put these stuff below into human;
Oxygen
Carbon
Hydrogen
Nitrogen
Calcium
Phosphorus
Potassium
Sulfur
Chlorine
Sodium
Magnesium
Silicon
Iron
Zinc
Copper
Boron
Cobalt
Vanadium
Iodine
Selenium
Manganese
Molybdenum
Chromium
of course human has compeletly different form than clay or earth. we are not clay.
in case you care for how we perceive it.
thank you
.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Evidence:
OK, read this very carefully. I'm going to go through the physical properties of clay:
Natural state:
- clay is soft and mallaeble when wet
- when clay is wet it exhibits high plasticity
- clay is often hard and brittle when dry
- clay when dry is a thermal and electrical insulator
- clay is formed through the grinding and eventual breakdown of rocks
- clay is also formed by the chemical weathering, often using carbonic acids
Now tell me Fatihah, how the hell is our skin anything like this? For one, humans are not resistant to heat and fire, we don't expand significantly when wet, we do not retain a similiar chemical composition when we're put in a fire, and we're not made of ground down rocks.
Care to disagree?
This is the last time i say this, if you say the same childish response you're too pathetic to debate with and i will block you as a user before i say something that will get me banned.
gnostic
The Lost One
Our body don't have silicate minerals, which is what the clay is made out of, mainly. The silicate mineral is worn down into fine grains.
If I remember geology lesson correctly, when I was doing a civil engineering course, silicate is made out of most silicon and oxygen atoms (I don't remember how many oxygen atoms). Correct me if i am wrong, because that was over 12 years ago.
We do have many elements in our body makeup, but silicon atoms only make less 0.006 percentage; that would be roughly 0.002 percent of the silicon mass. That's not even enough to make a single silicate mineral, let alone clay.
The majority of the elements are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen (probably not in that order).
Of course, fatihah, I can guess that you won't admit that being evidence or proof, so look up some biology or anatomy books that contained the chemical element or makeup of human body.
If I remember geology lesson correctly, when I was doing a civil engineering course, silicate is made out of most silicon and oxygen atoms (I don't remember how many oxygen atoms). Correct me if i am wrong, because that was over 12 years ago.
We do have many elements in our body makeup, but silicon atoms only make less 0.006 percentage; that would be roughly 0.002 percent of the silicon mass. That's not even enough to make a single silicate mineral, let alone clay.
The majority of the elements are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen (probably not in that order).
Of course, fatihah, I can guess that you won't admit that being evidence or proof, so look up some biology or anatomy books that contained the chemical element or makeup of human body.
[QUOTE:darkendless]Evidence:
OK, read this very carefully. I'm going to go through the physical properties of clay:
Natural state:
- clay is soft and mallaeble when wet
- when clay is wet it exhibits high plasticity
- clay is often hard and brittle when dry
- clay when dry is a thermal and electrical insulator
- clay is formed through the grinding and eventual breakdown of rocks
- clay is also formed by the chemical weathering, often using carbonic acids
Now tell me Fatihah, how the hell is our skin anything like this?(End quote)
Response: No one said that our skin was made like this.
Quote: darkendless
For one, humans are not resistant to heat and fire, we don't expand significantly when wet, we do not retain a similiar chemical composition when we're put in a fire, and we're not made of ground down rocks.
Care to disagree?(End quote)
Response: And as I said before in post 882 to the very same question:
" Yes. You see, you are referring to clay and solely on clay. The human body is made up of so much more. So one must also consider the other factors of man as well. Water will freeze solid when exposed to certain temperatures. If I walked outside in the freezing winter with a cup of water, after some time, the water inside will freeze solid. I on the other hand will not, despite the fact that science says that we are made of water. So does this mean that science is wrong? No. Because there are other factors involved. The same is the case concerning man in relation with clay."
OK, read this very carefully. I'm going to go through the physical properties of clay:
Natural state:
- clay is soft and mallaeble when wet
- when clay is wet it exhibits high plasticity
- clay is often hard and brittle when dry
- clay when dry is a thermal and electrical insulator
- clay is formed through the grinding and eventual breakdown of rocks
- clay is also formed by the chemical weathering, often using carbonic acids
Now tell me Fatihah, how the hell is our skin anything like this?(End quote)
Response: No one said that our skin was made like this.
Quote: darkendless
For one, humans are not resistant to heat and fire, we don't expand significantly when wet, we do not retain a similiar chemical composition when we're put in a fire, and we're not made of ground down rocks.
Care to disagree?(End quote)
Response: And as I said before in post 882 to the very same question:
" Yes. You see, you are referring to clay and solely on clay. The human body is made up of so much more. So one must also consider the other factors of man as well. Water will freeze solid when exposed to certain temperatures. If I walked outside in the freezing winter with a cup of water, after some time, the water inside will freeze solid. I on the other hand will not, despite the fact that science says that we are made of water. So does this mean that science is wrong? No. Because there are other factors involved. The same is the case concerning man in relation with clay."
themadhair
Well-Known Member
@ .lava
That the koran was written in the 7th century and contains an idea commonly believed in the 7th century, namely humans are made from clay, isn’t remarkable. What is remarkable is that because the koran contains this claim there are people who still believe that claim despite the 14 centuries of information discovered since.
It is a joke. And people like Fatihah are a joke who are an embarrassment to Islam. I mentioned this on another forum and I will do so again here – why are there no Muslims telling people like Fatihah that they are portraying Islam as a farce by defending such idiotic claims? I can point to examples on this forum where Christians have chided fellow Christians for such ravenous idiocy – why no examples from Muslims?
That the koran was written in the 7th century and contains an idea commonly believed in the 7th century, namely humans are made from clay, isn’t remarkable. What is remarkable is that because the koran contains this claim there are people who still believe that claim despite the 14 centuries of information discovered since.
It is a joke. And people like Fatihah are a joke who are an embarrassment to Islam. I mentioned this on another forum and I will do so again here – why are there no Muslims telling people like Fatihah that they are portraying Islam as a farce by defending such idiotic claims? I can point to examples on this forum where Christians have chided fellow Christians for such ravenous idiocy – why no examples from Muslims?
themadhair
Well-Known Member
Fatihah claiming that the human body cannot freeze solid. It’s like Fatihah has lived in a box and never been outside to experience the natural world. So Fatihah created a fantasy world to live in. One inspired by the koran. A world where men are made from clay and frostbite doesn’t exist.
[QUOTE:gnostic]Our body don't have silicate minerals, which is what the clay is made out of, mainly. The silicate mineral is worn down into fine grains.
If I remember geology lesson correctly, when I was doing a civil engineering course, silicate is made out of most silicon and oxygen atoms (I don't remember how many oxygen atoms). Correct me if i am wrong, because that was over 12 years ago.(End quote)
Response: You are correct. And both silicon and oxygen make up the human body.
Quote: gnostic
We do have many elements in our body makeup, but silicon atoms only make less 0.006 percentage; that would be roughly 0.002 percent of the silicon mass. That's not even enough to make a single silicate mineral, let alone clay.
The majority of the elements are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen (probably not in that order).
Of course, fatihah, I can guess that you won't admit that being evidence or proof, so look up some biology or anatomy books that contained the chemical element or makeup of human body.[/QUOTE]
Response: Actually, not this time. You are correct. And all of these elements can be found in the human body. The difference is that Allah has made them work independently of one another so our clay like structure or resemblence is no more. But the minerals found in clay still exists in us.
If I remember geology lesson correctly, when I was doing a civil engineering course, silicate is made out of most silicon and oxygen atoms (I don't remember how many oxygen atoms). Correct me if i am wrong, because that was over 12 years ago.(End quote)
Response: You are correct. And both silicon and oxygen make up the human body.
Quote: gnostic
We do have many elements in our body makeup, but silicon atoms only make less 0.006 percentage; that would be roughly 0.002 percent of the silicon mass. That's not even enough to make a single silicate mineral, let alone clay.
The majority of the elements are oxygen, carbon, hydrogen (probably not in that order).
Of course, fatihah, I can guess that you won't admit that being evidence or proof, so look up some biology or anatomy books that contained the chemical element or makeup of human body.[/QUOTE]
Response: Actually, not this time. You are correct. And all of these elements can be found in the human body. The difference is that Allah has made them work independently of one another so our clay like structure or resemblence is no more. But the minerals found in clay still exists in us.