themadhair
Well-Known Member
The irony is that it is you Fatihah who most often demanded those links….
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Quran is free of errors
- Thread starter Zhakir
- Start date
Alla Prima
Well-Known Member
Learn respect for what others write. Don't alter my comments. Period.
themadhair
Well-Known Member
Alla Prima
Well-Known Member
fify........
Alla Prima
Well-Known Member
If you have something to say about my comments get off your lazy butt and write it in your own space where it belongs.
gnostic
The Lost One
fatihah said:
Of course, it's relevant.
The Qur'an make man was made out of clay or earth. So the only way to prove or disprove this claim is to look at the human body, today.
According to science, the modern human body has not change that much in the last 12,000 years. The modern human, also known as Homo sapiens sapiens is actually a subspecies of Homo sapiens. The oldest Homo s. s. skulls were nicknamed the Hetro skulls, has been dated to 160,000 years old, found in Eithiopia, 1997. That's older than the skull found in South Africa, about 100,000 years old and in Israel, about 90,000 years old.
The reason I mentioned "12,000 years" because it was the very last stage of the glacial period. By 10,000 years, the glacial stage have receded, the weather warmer, and people learned to adapt to the new climate, through agriculture and domestication of animals, as well as the invention of pottery to store food about 7000 years ago.
According to the Hebrew scriptures, and if we were to take the number of years from generation to generation, literally, then man was created between 5700 and 5900 years ago.
Humans (and I am referring to modern humans) have been around a lot longer than the supposed appearance of Adam and Eve in the Abrahamic religion. None of which suggest that man are made out of clay, and none of them lived 930 years or more.
The Qur'anic (and biblical) claims that man were made from clay or the earth is based on older primitive myths from Sumer and Egypt.
Given that Moses had supposedly composed the Torah (Law), which contained 4 to 5 books, in the 19th or 20th dynasty in Egypt, that would mean about 3300 years ago (or c. 1300 BCE). However, there are no proof that the Torah were written before 1000 BCE. The Qur'an is a mere 1400 years old. The oldest Flood myth is found in the Sumerian clay tablets, named by modern scholars as Eridu Genesis, is about 4200 years old (or c. 2200 BCE), where the hero is named Ziusudra. It is quite clear that Noah's Flood were adapted indirectly from the Sumerian original, via from the Old Babylonian version.
It simply not possible for the world and Adam to be created about 5700 years ago, because the oldest settlement is Jericho, which has been occupied as far back as 9000 BCE, and became a town as far back as 8000 BCE.
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themadhair
Well-Known Member
I made the point I wanted to. Have you got over your butthurt yet?
Alla Prima
Well-Known Member
You 'fixed' a comment that didn't need fixing. FIFY is not for bullies to go around putting words in other people's mouths. Comment all you like about my posts but stay out of my quotes otherwise I will consider it trolling and bullying - a violation of the rules of this forum.
Alla Prima
Well-Known Member
Muslims consider the Koran the infallible word of 'God' so they are stuck having to defend ridiculous 1400 year old concepts. How sad is that.
Response: Poor themadhair. You can't even get along with those who agree with you. Even they are forced to point out the devilish ways of your character. How sad it is.
themadhair
Well-Known Member
Learn2Internet and get over yourself. If what I did was such a problem then report it to the mods.
You can consider FIFY whatever you want. I’ve used the concept on many forums and seen many other people use it. I’ve never seen someone cry and whinge about it before though and scream “trolling and bullying”. To repeat – learn2Internet and get over yourself.
You have no idea how much me and Alla Prima disagree Fatihah when it comes to Islam.
McBell
Unbound
I see words, but no proof
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Response: Not sad at all. What's sad is when a person like yourself make allegations against the qur'an, yet can not provide proof of your own assertions.
Alla Prima
Well-Known Member
Then please list for us any or all erroneous passages in the Koran.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
It appears to me that no matter what we say (and its a lot of information), you would not recognise it as proof because you have upmost faith in the Quran. As a result you believe all attempts to provide "evidence" are futile. I can't say i blame you, but it does not reflect well upon your critical analysis skills. Have you ever asked yourself "how" or "why" sir?
It is my opinion that if you were to question your beliefs, you may see the world in a different and brighter light without destroying your religious beliefs.
If you must maintain that man was made out of clay (man wasn't, but ok) have you ever asked yourself why?
Alla Prima
Well-Known Member
My take on that is if he starts to seriously doubt or question the teachings of Islam, the entire religion will fold like a house of cards. Any ideology that forbids criticism of itself is faulty at root otherwise it wouldn't forbid criticism.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Agreed. However, i do not doubt the intillectual abilities of other muslim members here who have shown a great aptitude for just about everything and are a pleasure to discuss with. Tashan and .Lava are both great, reasonable people to debate with
Keep in mind, intillectual dishonesty is not limited to Islam.
[QUOTE:darkendless]It appears to me that no matter what we say (and its a lot of information), you would not recognise it as proof because you have upmost faith in the Quran. As a result you believe all attempts to provide "evidence" are futile. I can't say i blame you, but it does not reflect well upon your critical analysis skills. Have you ever asked yourself "how" or "why" sir?(End quote)
Response: To the contrary, it appears that it is you who is fixed on maintaining your own beliefs and no matter what clear evidence is provided to you, you will simply deny it.
I've asked myself "how" and "why" all the time and the qur'an has revealed those answers for me. You may think that I hold to the qur'an based on belief, but in all actuality, it is you holding on to yours which is why you have difficulty in acknowledging the truth of the qur'an.
Quote: darkendless
It is my opinion that if you were to question your beliefs, you may see the world in a different and brighter light without destroying your religious beliefs.
If you must maintain that man was made out of clay (man wasn't, but ok) have you ever asked yourself why?(End quote)
Response: Man was created from clay. Why? Because Allah chose to. He did so as proof of his existence. You see, it would take knowledge of science to determine the creation of man and yet we have this knowledge revealed in a book written 1400 years ago. The only way a person could have known this knowledge in that time is through Allah because technology was not advanced enough back then to know this.
Response: To the contrary, it appears that it is you who is fixed on maintaining your own beliefs and no matter what clear evidence is provided to you, you will simply deny it.
I've asked myself "how" and "why" all the time and the qur'an has revealed those answers for me. You may think that I hold to the qur'an based on belief, but in all actuality, it is you holding on to yours which is why you have difficulty in acknowledging the truth of the qur'an.
Quote: darkendless
It is my opinion that if you were to question your beliefs, you may see the world in a different and brighter light without destroying your religious beliefs.
If you must maintain that man was made out of clay (man wasn't, but ok) have you ever asked yourself why?(End quote)
Response: Man was created from clay. Why? Because Allah chose to. He did so as proof of his existence. You see, it would take knowledge of science to determine the creation of man and yet we have this knowledge revealed in a book written 1400 years ago. The only way a person could have known this knowledge in that time is through Allah because technology was not advanced enough back then to know this.
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[QUOTE:Alla Prima]My take on that is if he starts to seriously doubt or question the teachings of Islam, the entire religion will fold like a house of cards. Any ideology that forbids criticism of itself is faulty at root otherwise it wouldn't forbid criticism.[/QUOTE]
Response: Any ideology that forbids criticism of itself is an ideology not worth acknowledging. However, that is not the case in islam. Allah wants us to challenge the qur'an and examine it to see if it's true and not follow it blindly. And once you are open minded and sincere enough to approach the qur'an with the same attitude, you will learn that the qur'an is indeed free from error as well. Insha'Allah.
Response: Any ideology that forbids criticism of itself is an ideology not worth acknowledging. However, that is not the case in islam. Allah wants us to challenge the qur'an and examine it to see if it's true and not follow it blindly. And once you are open minded and sincere enough to approach the qur'an with the same attitude, you will learn that the qur'an is indeed free from error as well. Insha'Allah.
darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
You just proved exactly what i was saying. You're so caught up in the Quran that your ability to reason with yourself is severely lacking. We can prove we're not made of clay because nothing within our body acts as clay, or as a clay composite.
I would like you to, if you can, to prove to me, through evidence (so that means without the Quran), that we are made of clay. I've proven using materials science we're not made of clay. Gnostic and other have proven through biology we're not made of clay. All you've done is reject it. The Quran is evidence only for the fool. Why? Because it has no credibility.
If Allah proved it to you how come you cannot prove it to me?