darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
As i keep saying its not clay then is it, its a clay derivative which isn't clay.
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Quran is free of errors
- Thread starter Zhakir
- Start date
As i keep saying its not clay then is it, its a clay derivative which isn't clay.
MFaraz_Hayat
Active Member
Its an extract of clay. Basically, its not a contradiction between both verses. For example, I am making something from extract of clay. For an extract of clay, I require clay itself. So to say that I used clay is correct, and to say that I used an extract of clay is a description of the previous (more detail basically).
[QUOTE:gnostic]What you seem to not understand (as well as Fatihah) is that having the same elements in a human body and in clay, don't mean that there are clay in our body. The elements don't combine (atomically) to form clay molecule.(End quote)
Response: And what you consistantly try to do is say that Fatihah and brother MFaraz is saying that there is clay "in" the body but here is the sad part. Quote any post, and there are over 1,000, quote any post in which I say that clay is in the body, if you are truthful?
And when you can't, it leads to the question as to why you insist on doing it anyway? For the obvious reason. It's because you can't refute the argument so you must assert a false one to my name and try to redeem yourself by refuting that one.
Response: And what you consistantly try to do is say that Fatihah and brother MFaraz is saying that there is clay "in" the body but here is the sad part. Quote any post, and there are over 1,000, quote any post in which I say that clay is in the body, if you are truthful?
And when you can't, it leads to the question as to why you insist on doing it anyway? For the obvious reason. It's because you can't refute the argument so you must assert a false one to my name and try to redeem yourself by refuting that one.
gnostic
The Lost One
MFaraz_Hayat said:
You are doing what all Muslims are doing. You're twisting the words in the Qur'anic verse, to suit the so-called "scientific miracle". No where do the Qur'an say that "EXTRACT" of clay. Every single verse (3:49; 5:110; 6:2; 15:26, 28, 33; 17:61; 32:7; 37:11; 55:14), just say that he "shaped" or "created" "you out of clay", as if he was potter.
Water may be the other ingredient, but so what?
The human body is far more complex than clay and water.
And no where in the anatomy of human body do we consist of clay or even extract of clay, because clay is a molecule, not just simple element.
As I said before the sun has most of basic elements found on earth, but none of them mean that the sun is made out of clay or water. You still don't understand molecule, just like Fatihah, and you don't understand that carbon is essential to life.
[QUOTE:gnostic]You are doing what all Muslims are doing. You're twisting the words in the Qur'anic verse, to suit the so-called "scientific miracle". No where do the Qur'an say that "EXTRACT" of clay. Every single verse (3:49; 5:110; 6:2; 15:26, 28, 33; 17:61; 32:7; 37:11; 55:14), just say that he "shaped" or "created" "you out of clay", as if he was potter. (End quote)
Response: "Verily, We created man from an extract of clay". (Ch.23:12)
Tell us gnostic, if you are so right, then why do I have to catch you in another lie?
Response: "Verily, We created man from an extract of clay". (Ch.23:12)
Tell us gnostic, if you are so right, then why do I have to catch you in another lie?
MFaraz_Hayat
Active Member
You seem to have forgotten verse 23:12. Check it.
Further, clay contains many complex molecules which have aluminum, silicon, Magnesium etc. present.
All I am saying is, that these can be easily decomposed to give the corresponding simpler compounds or elements (provided you have sufficient energy, as in the case of God).
And is it some form of racism I am detecting in your post? Even if I am twisting words (though I am not), does that mean that all muslims are doing it? You have just shown that you are biased against muslims on the whole and hence intent on finding errors in Quran.
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Response: Furthermore, we have gnostic not only lying in post 1144 but post 1143 as well. On top of that, in post 996 of page 100 of the thread, gnostic says that clay is mainly made up of silicates. After my response in post 1001 on page 101 which says that both the elements that make up silicates (silicon and oxygen) are in fact in the human body, he confirms this in post 1021 of page 103 of the thread. So from his own mouth, what mainly makes up clay has been confirmed by him to be in the human body. Yet he still wishes to prove that man is not from clay despite this. Taking all of this into consideration, it is a clear proof of denial on his part. Indeed, from his own words, we see the truth of the qur'an.
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem
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darkendless
Guardian of Asgaard
Nitrogen is a dangerous chemical to us, as is phosphorus in certain forms. Hydrogen, nitrogen and carbon creates hydrogen cyanide which is lethal, yet all 3 of those chemicals are in our bodies. By your reasoning, why are we alive?
If anyone is lying its you muslims, lying to yourselves to fabricate your holy book. Its straight out dishonest.
MFaraz_Hayat
Active Member
There you have it. They are dangerous in certain forms. But how do you know that these forms were involved when human was being made. Might I remind you, not all of Phosphorous and Nitrogen compounds are harmful. Plus, as I said, its not necessary to break them down to element level. The compounds can be decomposed to simpler compounds. Plus, it is scientifically possible provided you have sufficiently large source of energy (as in the case of God).
themadhair
Well-Known Member
In this thread we are seeing first hand the reason for the dramatic decline in Islamic scientific dominance.
Response: Not according to post 1139 on page 114.
themadhair
Well-Known Member
I posted evidence to support my contention Fatihah. Notice the difference? Rather than claim ‘allahdidit’ I posted skull pictures to show the hominid evolution that led to modern humans. Notice the difference?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Agreed. I doubt very much that Muslims will be at the forefront of science ever again.
What a stupid post!!!
themadhair
Well-Known Member
Have read this stupid thread yet?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
Based on what I have read in this very thread, reality tends to support my assertion even if you don't like the truth. Can you, in all honesty, point at a single post by a Muslim in this whole sorry thread that is even particularly reasonable?
MFaraz_Hayat
Active Member
First of all, you seem to be judging an entire race by the action of few. For sake of argument, lets agree that whatever I have posted up till now is illogical. So is it justified to basically claim that the entire muslim nation won't ever progress because of what you have read over some forum? I call this illogical.
Anyways, if you read my responses to darkendless you'll find that he accepted that provided we have a sufficient source of energy, it is scientifically possible for many compounds in human body to come from an extract of clay (with other stuff).
themadhair
Well-Known Member
In my case I am judging on the inaction of a few. Say a Christian posted that ht bible was literally true on this forum. You would Christians stepping in to challenge that assertion. But when Muslims on this forum make a similar claim for the koran – absolutely no disagreement from the Muslim members. Why is that?
Erm….I’m pretty sure you don’t understand what darkendless means when he uses the phrase ‘scientifically possible’. And it would appear to me that your arguments with him on this do not make you look any less of scientific joke here.
MFaraz_Hayat
Active Member
No idea as to you previous part.
And I understand what darkendless meant, he was pretty clear. He said that under conventions this thing is impossible for it takes clay a very long time to decompose etc. It is true however, that provided you have enough energy, this is quite possible. And if you think I am wrong, why not just give an argument rather than using insults? All the time I keep hearing, that I am saying something implausiible etc. well, explain it to me, that where am I incorrect?
YmirGF
Bodhisattva in Recovery
More disinformation. Son, Muslim's are not a race, they are a religious group -- whose ranks are currently swollen with an unhealthy number of fanatics. To support my thinking on this, not a single Muslim (to my memory) has stated that the ideas expressed in this miserable thread by their fellow Muslims are patently ridiculous. That glaring reality does not bode well.
I do feel that this microcosm of Muslim sentiments could be substantiated over a far larger sampling that would bear out what I am saying. It is already a matter of public record that Muslim nation's have less scientists per capital than any other. I would suggest there is a significant reason for that and the sentiments expressed by Muslims in this thread are highly instructive as to why that is.
Yes, I read your tiresome, juvenile responses to Darkendless and would also state that if you supplied the requisite energy that indeed pigs could fly. So what? It proves nothing. Would have and could have, have no place in science. Muslims would do well to try to appreciate that small detail.