Quran is free of errors

[Alla Prima]

Response: The spreading of islam would be done in the same manner in which I am embracing you; through conversation and courtesy.

The spreading Of Islam is done with fear and intimidation. Here is but one example of many.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ledmdCpQEY8

 

[darkendless]

You should reply to what the Qur'an says first,only by saying "NOT A TEXTBOOK ON SCIENCE" will not support your claims.

If the Quran could be more specific rather than being so open i could take 1000 different meanings for each passage, then perhaps i'd give it some credit. However, none is due.

Present some geology facts from the quran and ill have a look at them.

A side note though, if it some stupid Islamic site based on science for 13 year olds, please don't bother.

 

[riverfox]

If the Quran could be more specific rather than being so open i could take 1000 different meanings for each passage, then perhaps i'd give it some credit. However, none is due.

Present some geology facts from the quran and ill have a look at them.

A side note though, if it some stupid Islamic site based on science for 13 year olds, please don't bother.

Try to support your claims from the Glorious Qur'an,not your mind.

 

[themadhair]

Try to support your claims from the Glorious Qur'an,not your mind.

So you oppose critical thought? Makes sense I suppose.

 

[darkendless]

Try to support your claims from the Glorious Qur'an,not your mind.

The Quran can't support anything. Its you meant to be using the Quran not me. To me the Quran is a religious book, certainly not a scientific book.

Where is your evidence that the Quran is scientific?

 

[riverfox]

They number in the hundreds.Esleam,Zhakir and others have been showing you this evidence.
Do you want me to repeat them?
Let's start,but please reply to what the Qur'an said ,don't repeate claims that you can't prove
Quran says:
Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”
41-Elucidated, 11
From this website http://quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=21

“Dukhan” is the word used in Arabic for smoke, vapor and gaseous matter. It appears that the universe was a gaseous mass before it reached the state - by the will of God - from which the universe and the earth came to be.

We know that our world, the sun and the stars did not come about immediately after the primeval explosion. For the universe was in a gaseous state before the formation of the stars. This gaseous state was initially made of hydrogen and helium. Condensation and compression shaped the planets, the earth, the sun and the stars that were but products of the gaseous state. The discovery of these phenomena has been rendered possible thanks to successive findings as a result of observations and theoretical developments. The knowledge of all contemporary communities during the time of the Prophet would not suffice for the assertion that the universe had once been in a gaseous state. The Prophet himself did not claim to be the author of the statements in the Quran as it often reminded, declaring that he is simply a messenger of God.

49- This is news of the unseen which we reveal to you, which neither you nor your people knew before. So, be patient. Surely the end is for the dutiful.
11-Hud, 49

Who would have come to know this in the 7th century?

 

[YmirGF]

They number in the hundreds.Esleam,Zhakir and others have been showing you this evidence.
Do you want me to repeat them?

And their so-called "evidence" has been soundly defeated. Do you really want to repeat this process and further convey the impression that some Muslims are unable to think clearly.

 

[Zhakir]

And their so-called "evidence" has been soundly defeated. Do you really want to repeat this process and further convey the impression that some Muslims are unable to think clearly.

No, you couldn't reply to single sign of the Quran,yet rejected them it's your choice but you can't lie to others.

 

[Alla Prima]

They number in the hundreds.Esleam,Zhakir and others have been showing you this evidence.
Do you want me to repeat them?
Let's start,but please reply to what the Qur'an said ,don't repeate claims that you can't prove
Quran says:
Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”
41-Elucidated, 11
From this website http://quranmiracles.com/articles.asp?id=21


Who would have come to know this in the 7th century?

041.011
YUSUFALI: Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
PICKTHAL: Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.
SHAKIR: Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so He said to it and to the earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.

I imagine they had clouds in the 7th century.

 

[YmirGF]

No, you couldn't reply to single sign of the Quran,yet rejected them it's your choice but you can't lie to others.

Welcome back, Zhak. It is difficult for me to understand how Muslims can continue to cling to the feeble, desperate thinking outlined in this (and other) threads. Neither you, or any other Muslim in this (and other) threads has actually made very much scientific sense even though, from a Muslim perspective, you do think it makes sense. That last part is worrisome.

It is my opinion that Muslims such as yourself are talking about matters that are way above your actual knowledge level and so the amusing Muslim perspective on scientific miracles makes sense to you - but only because you do not understand the actual science behind these supposed miracles.

 

[riverfox]

041.011
YUSUFALI: Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."
PICKTHAL: Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.
SHAKIR: Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so He said to it and to the earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.

I imagine they had clouds in the 7th century.

Did you really read this:

“Dukhan” is the word used in Arabic for smoke, vapor and gaseous matter. It appears that the universe was a gaseous mass before it reached the state - by the will of God - from which the universe and the earth came to be.

The verse didn't say that this smoke is water vapor or clouds.They had clouds but this can't let them know any thing about unviverse gaseous state.
Again who would have come to know this?

 

[YmirGF]

Let's start,but please reply to what the Qur'an said ,don't repeate claims that you can't prove.

OK.

Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”

So, let's get this straight. Allah spoke to the gas and the earth saying, “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” For Allah to have spoken to both they would have had to already existed otherwise he is merely talking to himself. Likewise, the earth was not created at the same time that the original universe was created but happened some 9 billion years later. The statement in and of itself is virtually meaningless because of this. What makes this passage absolutely meaningless is the preposterous idea that the gas and the earth answered, “We come willingly.” By this statement we are led to believe that the earth and a gaseous state can speak in human words? Tell me, riverfox, when was the last time you ran into a chatty cloud of smoke?

Who would have come to know this in the 7th century?

I think this passage is all we need to acknowledge that this is solely the writing of a very primitive human being with no actual knowledge of science as the entire verse is almost complete rubbish. Given that Muhammad was not likely to have understood what a gaseous state was, we can pretty well rule that meaning out. Likewise vapour is not applicable either and so we are left with smoke, which in all likelihood is precisely what Muhammad meant when he wrote this decidedly unimpressive verse.

 

[Alla Prima]

The verse didn't say that this smoke is water vapor or clouds.They had clouds but this can't let them know any thing about unviverse gaseous state.
Again who would have come to know this?

You're clinging to the thinnest thread possible. 'Gaseous' is well known too all as well. Maybe everyone was standing arond farting and Muhammad looks up and says: "Holy Moly!! Is the Universe a gaseous state or what!!?!!

 

[Don Penguinoini]

You are still clinging to this thread? Wow. Even Zhak abandoned it.

 

[darkendless]

They number in the hundreds.Esleam,Zhakir and others have been showing you this evidence.
Do you want me to repeat them?
Let's start,but please reply to what the Qur'an said ,don't repeate claims that you can't prove
Quran says:
Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”
41-Elucidated, 11
From this website Quran Miracles | THE UNIVERSE IN GASEOUS STATE


Who would have come to know this in the 7th century?

Right so you rely on other people to find "such miracles," you're just a sheep who believes everything he hears. I'd take claims more seriously if you didn't find them off a website. This just demonstrates even more so that you don't know what you're talking about.

11- Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”
41-Elucidated, 11

I highlighted in red, is this actual quranic scripture? If i got my hands on a Quran would i find these exact words? Problems i've had with these discussions, is Muslim scholars changing a single word making it look so much different.

 

[YmirGF]

Right so you rely on other people to find "such miracles," you're just a sheep who believes everything he hears. I'd take claims more seriously if you didn't find them off a website. This just demonstrates even more so that you don't know what you're talking about.

11- Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”
41-Elucidated, 11

I highlighted in red, is this actual quranic scripture? If i got my hands on a Quran would i find these exact words? Problems i've had with these discussions, is Muslim scholars changing a single word making it look so much different.

Here is 16 translations of the text.

‏41:11 ثم استوى الى السماء وهي دخان فقال لها وللارض ائتيا طوعا او كرها قالتا اتينا طائعين ​

Transliteration:
Thumma istawa ila alssama-i wahiya dukhanun faqala laha walil-ardi i/tiya tawAAan aw karhan qalata atayna ta-iAAeena

Literally:
Then He aimed/tended to the sky/space and it is smoke/fumes, so He said to it and to the earth/Planet Earth: "You (B) come voluntarily or forcefully/involuntarily ." They (B) said: "We came obedient."


Yusuf Ali: Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."

Pickthal: Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.

Arberry: Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly."

Shakir: Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so He said to it and to the earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.

Sarwar: He established His dominance over the sky, which (for that time) was like smoke. Then He told the heavens and the earth, "Take your shape either willingly or by force" They said, "We willingly obey".

Khalifa: Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

Hilali/Khan: Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come, willingly."

H/K/Saheeh: Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."

Malik: Then He turned towards the sky, which was but smoke, He said to it and to the earth: ‘Come forward both of you, willingly or unwillingly,’ and they submitted: ‘We shall come willingly.’

QXP: Likewise, He it is Who designed well the Sky when it was Smoke (Nebulae of gas). And He said to it and the earth, "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We do come, obedient." ('Thumm' = Afterward, then, so, likewise, similarly, in the like manner. The Cosmic bodies coming into their orbits willingly or unwillingly indicates their having been made subservient to the Divine Laws, without free will (3:82), (13:15)).

Maulana Ali: Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it was a vapour, so He said to it and to the earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.

Free Minds: Then He settled to the heaven, while it was still smoke, and He said to it, and to the Earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We come willingly."

Qaribullah: Then He willed to the heaven when it was smoke, and to it and the earth He said: 'Come willingly, or unwillingly. ' 'We come willingly, ' they answered.

George Sale: Then He set his mind to the creation of heaven; and it was smoke: And He said unto it, and to the earth, come, either obediently, or against your will. They answered, we come, obedient to thy command.

JM Rodwell: Then He applied himself to the Heaven, which then was but smoke: and to it and to the Earth He said, "Come ye, whether in obedience or against your will?" and they both said, "We come obedient."

Asad: And [Whenever the particle thumma is used, as in the above instance, to link parallel statements - i.e., statements not necessarily indicating a sequence in time - it has the function of a simple conjunction, and may be rendered as "and".] He [it is who] applied His design to the skies, which were [yet but] smoke; [I.e., a gas - evidently hydrogen gas, which physicists regard as the primal element from which all material particles of the universe have evolved and still evolve. For the meaning of the term sama ("sky" or "skies" or "heaven") in its cosmic connotation, see note on 2:29.] and He [it is who] said to them and to the earth, "Come [into being], both of you, willingly or unwillingly!" - to which both responded, "We do come in obedience." [Explaining this passage, Zamakhshari observes: "The meaning of God's command to the skies and the earth to `come', and their submission [to His command] is this: He willed their coming into being, and so they came to be as He willed them to be and this is the kind of metaphor (majaz) which is called `allegory' (tamthil). Thus, the purport [of this passage] is but an illustration (taswir) of the effect of His almighty power on all that is willed [by Him], and nothing else." (It is obvious that Zamakhshari's reasoning is based on the oft-repeated Quranic statement, "When God wills a thing to be, He but says unto it, `Be' - and it is.") Concluding his interpretation of the above passage, Zamakhshari adds: "If I am asked about the meaning of [the words] `willingly or unwillingly', I say that it is a figurative expression (mathal) indicating that His almighty will must inevitably take effect."]


It seems to be a case of pick your English translation and run with the ball, Darklessness.

 

[riverfox]

http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/caa.html#Yusuf_Ali

Yusuf Ali: Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: "Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience."

Pickthal: Then turned He to the heaven when it was smoke, and said unto it and unto the earth: Come both of you, willingly or loth. They said: We come, obedient.

Arberry: Then He lifted Himself to heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth, "Come willingly, or unwillingly!" They said, "We come willingly."

Shakir: Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it is a vapor, so He said to it and to the earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.

Sarwar: He established His dominance over the sky, which (for that time) was like smoke. Then He told the heavens and the earth, "Take your shape either willingly or by force" They said, "We willingly obey".

Khalifa: Then He turned to the sky, when it was still gas, and said to it, and to the earth, "Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We come willingly."

Hilali/Khan: Then He Istawa (rose over) towards the heaven when it was smoke, and said to it and to the earth: "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They both said: "We come, willingly."

H/K/Saheeh: Then He directed Himself to the heaven while it was smoke and said to it and to the earth, "Come [into being], willingly or by compulsion." They said, "We have come willingly."

Malik: Then He turned towards the sky, which was but smoke, He said to it and to the earth: ‘Come forward both of you, willingly or unwillingly,’ and they submitted: ‘We shall come willingly.’

QXP: Likewise, He it is Who designed well the Sky when it was Smoke (Nebulae of gas). And He said to it and the earth, "Come both of you willingly or unwillingly." They said, "We do come, obedient." ('Thumm' = Afterward, then, so, likewise, similarly, in the like manner. The Cosmic bodies coming into their orbits willingly or unwillingly indicates their having been made subservient to the Divine Laws, without free will (3:82), (13:15)).

Maulana Ali: Then He directed Himself to the heaven and it was a vapour, so He said to it and to the earth: Come both, willingly or unwillingly. They both said: We come willingly.

Free Minds: Then He settled to the heaven, while it was still smoke, and He said to it, and to the Earth: "Come willingly or unwillingly." They said: "We come willingly."

Qaribullah: Then He willed to the heaven when it was smoke, and to it and the earth He said: 'Come willingly, or unwillingly. ' 'We come willingly, ' they answered.

George Sale: Then He set his mind to the creation of heaven; and it was smoke: And He said unto it, and to the earth, come, either obediently, or against your will. They answered, we come, obedient to thy command.

JM Rodwell: Then He applied himself to the Heaven, which then was but smoke: and to it and to the Earth He said, "Come ye, whether in obedience or against your will?" and they both said, "We come obedient."
http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/caa.html#Yusuf_Alihttp://www.islamawakened.com/quran/caa.html#Yusuf_Ali

http://www.islamawakened.com/quran/caa.html#Yusuf_Alihttp://www.islamawakened.com/quran/caa.html#Yusuf_Alihttp://www.islamawakened.com/quran/caa.html#Yusuf_Ali

These mean the same
​

What i don't undertand is,why do you blame the Qur'an?! there is only one original 41:11 in its original text and language.

‏41:11 ثم استوى الى السماء وهي دخان فقال لها وللارض ائتيا طوعا او كرها قالتا اتينا طائعين​

 

[riverfox]

Muhammad looks up and says: "Holy Moly!! Is the Universe a gaseous state or what!!?!!

Said it used to be, before the existence of the current
11- Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”

Right so you rely on other people to find "such miracles," you're just a sheep who believes everything he hears. I'd take claims more seriously if you didn't find them off a website. This just demonstrates even more so that you don't know what you're talking about.

11- Then He turned to the heavens, and it was in a gaseous state. And said to it, and the earth; “Come into existence, willingly or unwillingly.” They said, “We come willingly.”
41-Elucidated, 11

I highlighted in red, is this actual quranic scripture? If i got my hands on a Quran would i find these exact words? Problems i've had with these discussions, is Muslim scholars changing a single word making it look so much different.

How did you begin to study in school? of course you relied on books you have'nt written and teachers you haven't teached .
I open the Qur'an and see that it's one of hundreds of miracles ,if you got your hands on a Qur'an you would find these words or at least the meaning.
As for me and another 400000000 we find the exact words i read the Qura'n it's in original language only one text exactly the same.

 

[darkendless]

How did you begin to study in school? of course you relied on books you have'nt written and teachers you haven't teached .
I open the Qur'an and see that it's one of hundreds of miracles ,if you got your hands on a Qur'an you would find these words or at least the meaning.
As for me and another 400000000 we find the exact words i read the Qura'n it's in original language only one text exactly the same.

The funny thing about that is I grew up. I learnt (and am still learning) from a book. But then i go and put things into practice. Standing in a hole for 8 hours a day isn't fun, but the learning experience is invaluable.

This is a problem with a Quran. I can prove what i learn, what can you prove?

 

[riverfox]

The funny thing about that is I grew up. I learnt (and am still learning) from a book. But then i go and put things into practice. Standing in a hole for 8 hours a day isn't fun, but the learning experience is invaluable.

This is a problem with a Quran. I can prove what i learn, what can you prove?

Prove what i learn,and that what i learn is good and from God.