Quran Vs Bible in light of science

[DeitySlayer]

ohh.geez...i have explained it before

the verse means that the sun will continue its motion as one of the billions of stars in the universe ,it travels more than 17 million kilometers a day in space and will provide us energy till an appointed time after which it will die (and even scientists have calculated the half life of sun)

Just like to point out, the Norse Ragnarok mythology also states that the Sun will eventually 'end'. It also did this before the Qur'an said anything about the Sun ending.

 

[Meow Mix]

if don't wanna believe in it then don't , iam not the one who's telling you to stay here and listen to what i have to say

They're willing to listen to what you have to say because they're giving you a chance to make a rational case.

Why not make a case that couldn't possibly just be the Forer effect in action?

Or let me ask you another question: haven't you also seen other religions make claims that their holy book had secret science in them all along, and when you read their "proofs" thought to yourself how silly it was taking such vague passages out of context?

Why couldn't your god have bothered to make things a little more clear? Why instead of all these parables about eggs and stuff not just say "The earth is round, it is not the center of the solar system -- the sun is" and other perfectly clear things like that?

People make excuses "Oh, it's not that clear because it's not meant to be a science book, it's just about signs..." or "Oh, they wouldn't have understood that at the time." NONSENSE. If it's the word of God and people are supposed to believe it then even if they didn't understand it then it would only end up proving true wouldn't it?

Instead we get crappy, hazy, nebulous bits about "7 layers of atmosphere" with STARS in it which absolutely doesn't make sense...

Can you at least imagine where our skepticism is coming from here?

 

[Islam432]

Cop-out. If you are going to post extraordinary claims, be prepared to defend them.

Here is how your 'Signs' work.
If tomorrow, scientists found that the Big Bang was based on faulty science, and instead the Universe originated from a gradual gathering of preexisting elements from the aether, you would point to the same Suras and say, "Look, the Qu'ran backs up what has been discovered."

first of all scientific facts which have been established never change including the big-bang , again your wrong

and iam happy to defend if you give some logical explanation not some Forer Effect b.s

 

[DeitySlayer]

first of all scientific facts which have been established never change including the big-bang , again your wrong

and iam happy to defend if you give some logical explanation not some Forer Effect b.s

Evolution has been established. In fact, there is more scientific contention against the Big Bang theory than evolution.

The Forer Effect is documented and evidentially demonstrated.

 

[Islam432]

Yes. :yes:

The Qur'an and the medieval Muslim scientists after Muhammad supported the better known Ptolemy's geocentric planetary model.

Claudius Ptolemeus, better known simply as Ptolemy, was a 2nd century Greek astronomer, living in Egypt. Ptolemy wrote several important treatises: The Almagest (astronomy and mathematics), the Geographia (geography, obviously), and the Tetrabiblos (astrology). All 3 treatises were known to Muhammad's time and that of the medieval Muslim scientists, just as they were influenced by the works of Aristotle and Archimedes.

Basically, the geocentric model is a system of planetary motions, where the earth is stationary, while the 7 known planets at that time, which include the sun and moon as planets, traverse our day and night skies. From our geo-perspective (us standing outside to view the sky) without the aid of the telescope, the ancient and medieval astronomers would naturally come to the conclusion that the sun and moon were moving in their courses.

The evidence that the Qur'an support the geocentric model is found in verse 21:33:





The verse speaks of night and day, and how the sun and moon traverse the sky, each in its own orbit. This clearly demonstrated that the geocentric model were known even Muhammad's days. It assume that the sun is moving, causing day and night, when it is really not. It also assume that the Sun has an orbit around the Earth, instead of the other way around. So the Qur'an is also wrong about the day and night.

The heliocentric model is a system of planetary movements, which have their orbits around the Sun, including that of the Earth.

Galileo prove with telescope that the heliocentric model his precedessor, Nicholaus Copernicus, and his contemporary, Johannes Kepler were correct. (Copernicus was partially correct, he assumed that the planetary orbits were perfectly circular.)

The heliocentric model was older than Copernicus, and known centuries before Ptolemy's time.

Aristarchus of Samos, who flourished, was the first to put forward the heliocentric model, but without the aid of the telescope, it was not a popular theory. Aristarchus's writing on the heliocentric model was lost, but he was quoted by Archimedes. However, few scientists and philosophers of those days support the heliocentric system, and was completely quashed by Ptolemy's time.

The Sun is not moving at all, at least from the perspective of our solar system.

And before any Muslim say that the Sun do move, around its orbit of our galaxy's centre, yes, I know that. But we are dealing with our solar system, and with the quote from 21:33. Our Sun's galatical orbit doesn't affect our day and night.

We know now that the Earth have day and night because of the Earth's rotation on its axis (poles), and not simply because the Sun traverse our sky during the daytime. This was known by Greek scientists/philosophers, as early as Heraclides of Pontus, from the 4th century BCE.

again , one of mistakes in quran according to non-believers , and i didnt read the complete thing

so let start analyzing the surah

In the above verse the movement of the Earth is described by the word “yukawwiru,” which comes from root verb “takwir,” meaning “to cover up a spherical body,” in the way that the rotation of the Earth gives rise to night and day, like the winding of a turban. In addition to the spherical shape of the Earth the word is also the most accurate expression of its movement around the Sun. Because of the Earth’s spherical shape and its movement around the Sun, the Sun always illuminates one side of the Earth while the other is in darkness. The side in shadow is shrouded by the darkness of night, to be replaced by the brightness of day when the Sun rises.

its non-believers who mix up the verse and try to prove its wrong


also if we continue

37. And a sign for them is the night, We withdraw therefrom the day, and behold, they are in darkness.

38. And the sun runs on its fixed course for a term (appointed). That is the Decree of the All-Mighty, the All-Knowing.

39. And the moon, We have measured for it mansions (to traverse) till it returns like the old dried curved date stalk.

40. It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.

Compare verses 37, 38 and 39 with verse 40.

Okay ... In 37 it states clearly that if the Day is taken away the result is Night. Hence this provides context to the part of verse 40 which states that "nor does the night outstrip the day" ... in other words ... "taking away the night will not bring day, but taking away the day will bring night"

Next we see in the Verse 38 that the sun is on a course until a fixed term, can this mean that it is consuming itself? Can it mean that this Sun will not always be there? Can it mean that the sun is travelling very fast?

Now look at verse 39 and we see that the moon is RETURNING i.e. in a cycle of some sort after perishing it grows again from a thin sliver ... compared with a date leaf/stalk ... I would hazard a guess that this is the phase of the moon. However, the moon moves faster in the sky and it moves faster than the sun in actual fact. So in verse 39 it states that the moon is faster and more longer lasting than the Sun, so in verse 40 the opposite condition i.e. the sun will never overtake the moon at those things ...

 

[tumbleweed41]

first of all scientific facts which have been established never change including the big-bang , again your wrong

and iam happy to defend if you give some logical explanation not some Forer Effect b.s

All scientific theories are open to change and modification when new evidence is discovered. This is how science works.
The Big Bang is a Theory supported by existing evidence.
If you do not understand how the Scientific Method works, how are you going to defend your stand on science and the Qu'ran?

And if you do not like the Forer Effect, do not constantly fall prey to it.

 

[tumbleweed41]

In the above verse the movement of the Earth is described by the word “yukawwiru,” which comes from root verb “takwir,” meaning “to cover up a spherical body,” in the way that the rotation of the Earth gives rise to night and day, like the winding of a turban. In addition to the spherical shape of the Earth the word is also the most accurate expression of its movement around the Sun. Because of the Earth’s spherical shape and its movement around the Sun, the Sun always illuminates one side of the Earth while the other is in darkness. The side in shadow is shrouded by the darkness of night, to be replaced by the brightness of day when the Sun rises.

Miracles of the Qur'an - Modern Science Reveals New Miracles of the Qur'an

Please cite sources when copying and pasting. Plagiarism is discouraged by Forum Rules.

 

[Meow Mix]

first of all scientific facts which have been established never change including the big-bang , again your wrong

and iam happy to defend if you give some logical explanation not some Forer Effect b.s

Ok here's a site that shows the Hindu holy texts had modern scientific truths in them: Miracles of Veda and Purana

The scientific facts include the sphericity of the earth, sunspots, polar days and nights, movement of the earth through space, extrasolar planets, light refraction, star formation, universal expansion, plate tectonics, the earth's atmosphere composition (HAHA -- funnily enough it also says 7 layers), tidal influences by gravity, origin of the moon, composition of the solar system, interplanetary space, composition of terrestrial vs jovian planets.... etc.

So according to your reasoning, there's no way that ALL this stuff is simply one huge Forer Effect of someone looking at an old text of superstition and seeing within it modern knowledge by twisting the vagueness of the passages to be "scientifically meaningful?"

By your reasoning, this must PROVE Hinduism is correct since it's a miracle, right?

(Of course I'm being sarcastic, but do you see why your arguments from the Quran are just as bad as these Hindu arguments?)

 

[Sufi]

[youtube]qVQ1BWqjTjs[/youtube]
YouTube - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam in North America by Dr. Jeffrey Lang (Part 1/17)

 

[tumbleweed41]

Irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[tumbleweed41]

These are the points to be noted here: -

1. Nowhere does Allah say here that he made Earth first and then he made heaven. He merely says that he made all that is on earth and then he turned to heaven that was already created. .......

Again, please cite the sources of any copy and pastes.

Does Quran really say that Earth was created before the heavens? | Christ And Muhammad

Plagiarism is against forum rules.
(Unless you contend you are the original author?)

 

[DeitySlayer]

He Who created the seven heavens, one above the other ...
And We have adorned the lowest heaven with lamps ... (67:3,5)

And He completed them seven heavens in two days
and inspired in each heaven its command;
and We adorned the lower heaven with lamps,
and rendered it guarded... (41:12)

So does that mean the stars are in the troposphere?

 

[Islam432]

Just like to point out, the Norse Ragnarok mythology also states that the Sun will eventually 'end'. It also did this before the Qur'an said anything about the Sun ending.

it states

Thor*—will be killed. Loki and the monsters, giants, and other evil beings will also perish. The earth will be set on fire, the sun and moon will be destroyed, the sky will fall, and the world will finally sink beneath the sea and vanish.
source Ragnarok - Myth Encyclopedia - mythology, god, names, tree, norse, world, evil, fire

lol nowhere you find this in quran

 

[Islam432]

They're willing to listen to what you have to say because they're giving you a chance to make a rational case.

Why not make a case that couldn't possibly just be the Forer effect in action?

Or let me ask you another question: haven't you also seen other religions make claims that their holy book had secret science in them all along, and when you read their "proofs" thought to yourself how silly it was taking such vague passages out of context?

Why couldn't your god have bothered to make things a little more clear? Why instead of all these parables about eggs and stuff not just say "The earth is round, it is not the center of the solar system -- the sun is" and other perfectly clear things like that?

People make excuses "Oh, it's not that clear because it's not meant to be a science book, it's just about signs..." or "Oh, they wouldn't have understood that at the time." NONSENSE. If it's the word of God and people are supposed to believe it then even if they didn't understand it then it would only end up proving true wouldn't it?

Instead we get crappy, hazy, nebulous bits about "7 layers of atmosphere" with STARS in it which absolutely doesn't make sense...

Can you at least imagine where our skepticism is coming from here?

i have read all the world major religion books/scriptures and i came to the conclusion on my own that Quran without a doubt is the word of God , i didnt follow my parental religion blindly , i researched it
i will say it again i dont have not even 0.00000000000000000000001% doubt in my mind about my religion

and plz if iam quoting out of context , then you could quote the full context

also earth is spherical which is more accurately described as egg rather than circle

 

[Islam432]

Ok here's a site that shows the Hindu holy texts had modern scientific truths in them: Miracles of Veda and Purana

The scientific facts include the sphericity of the earth, sunspots, polar days and nights, movement of the earth through space, extrasolar planets, light refraction, star formation, universal expansion, plate tectonics, the earth's atmosphere composition (HAHA -- funnily enough it also says 7 layers), tidal influences by gravity, origin of the moon, composition of the solar system, interplanetary space, composition of terrestrial vs jovian planets.... etc.

So according to your reasoning, there's no way that ALL this stuff is simply one huge Forer Effect of someone looking at an old text of superstition and seeing within it modern knowledge by twisting the vagueness of the passages to be "scientifically meaningful?"

By your reasoning, this must PROVE Hinduism is correct since it's a miracle, right?

(Of course I'm being sarcastic, but do you see why your arguments from the Quran are just as bad as these Hindu arguments?)

ok , if you are a hindu , according to your scriptures you should follow Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)
. Muhammad (pbuh) prophesised in Bhavishya Purana

According to Bhavishya Purana in the Prati Sarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 5 to 8.
"A malecha (belonging to a foreign country and speaking a foreign language) spiritual teacher will appear with his companions. His name will be Mohammad. Raja (Bhoj) after giving this Maha Dev Arab (of angelic disposition) a bath in the Panchgavya and the Ganga water (i.e. purifying him of all sins) offered him the present of his sincere devotion and showing him all reverence said, "I make obeisance to thee. O ye! The pride of mankind, the dweller in Arabia, Ye have collected a great force to kill the Devil and you yourself have been protected from the malecha opponents."


The Prophecy clearly states:

The name of the Prophet as Mohammad.
He will belong to Arabia. The Sanskrit word Marusthal means a sandy track of land or a desert.
Special mention is made of the companions of the Prophet, i.e. the Sahabas. No other Prophet had as many companions as Prophet Muhammad (pbuh).
He is referred as the pride of mankind (Parbatis nath). The Glorious Qur’an reconfirms this
"And thou (standest) on an exalted standard of character"
[Al-Qur'an 68:4]|
"Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah, a beautiful pattern (of conduct)".
[Al-Qur'an 33:21]

He will kill the devil, i.e. abolish idol worship and all sorts of vices.
The Prophet will be given protection against his enemy.

Some people may argue that ‘Raja’ Bhoj mentioned in the prophecy lived in the 11th century C.E. 500 years after the advent of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) and was the descendant in the 10th generation of Raja Shalivahan. These people fail to realise that there was not only one Raja of the name Bhoj. The Egyptian Monarchs were called as Pharaoh and the Roman Kings were known as Caesar, similarly the Indian Rajas were given the title of Bhoj. There were several Raja Bhoj who came before the one in 11th Century C.E.

The Prophet did not physically take a bath in the Panchgavya and the water of Ganges. Since the water of Ganges is considered holy, taking bath in the Ganges is an idiom, which means washing away sins or immunity from all sorts of sins. Here the prophecy implies that Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) was sinless, i.e. Maasoom.

According to Bhavishya Purana in the Pratisarag Parv III Khand 3 Adhay 3 Shloka 10 to 27 Maharishi Vyas has prophesised:

"The Malecha have spoiled the well-known land of the Arabs. Arya Dharma is not to be found in the country. Before also there appeared a misguided fiend whom I had killed; he has now again appeared being sent by a powerful enemy. To show these enemies the right path and to give them guidance, the well-known Muhammad (pbuh), is busy in bringing the Pishachas to the right path. O Raja, You need not go to the land of the foolish Pishachas, you will be purified through my kindness even where you are. At night, he of the angelic disposition, the shrewd man, in the guise of Pishacha said to Raja Bhoj, "O Raja! Your Arya Dharma has been made to prevail over all religions, but according to the commandments of Ishwar Parmatma, I shall enforce the strong creed of the meat eaters. My followers will be men circumcised, without a tail (on his head), keeping beard, creating a revolution announcing the Aadhaan (the Muslim call for prayer) and will be eating all lawful things. He will eat all sorts of animals except swine. They will not seek purification from the holy shrubs, but will be purified through warfare. On account of their fighting the irreligious nations, they will be known as Musalmaans. I shall be the originator of this religion of the meat-eating nations."

The Prophecy states that:

The evil doers have corrupted the Arab land.
Arya Dharma is not found in that land.
The Indian Raja need not go the Arab land since his purification will take place in India after the musalmaan will arrive in India.
The coming Prophet will attest the truth of the Aryan faith, i.e. Monotheism and will reform the misguided people.
The Prophet’s followers will be circumcised. They will be without a tail on the head and bear a beard and will create a great revolution.
They will announce the Aadhaan, i.e. ‘the Muslim call for prayer’.
He will only eat lawful things and animals but will not eat pork. The Qur’an confirms this in no less than 4 different places:

In Surah Al-Baqarah chapter 2 verse 173
In Surah Al-Maidah chapter 5 verse 3
In Surah Al-Anam chapter 6 verse 145
In Surah Al-Nahl chapter 16 verse 115

"Forbidden to you for food are dead meat, blood, flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah".
They will not purify with grass like the Hindus but by means of sword they will fight their irreligious people.
They will be called musalmaan.
They will be a meat-eating nation.

The eating of herbivorous animals is confirmed by the Qur’an in Surah Maidah, chapter 5 verse 1 and in Surah Muminun chapter 23 verse 21

According to Bhavishya Purana, Parv - III Khand 1 Adhay 3 Shloka 21-23:

"Corruption and persecution are found in seven sacred cities of Kashi, etc. India is inhabited by Rakshas, Shabor, Bhil and other foolish people. In the land of Malechhas, the followers of the Malechha dharma (Islam) are wise and brave people. All good qualities are found in Musalmaans and all sorts of vices have accumulated in the land of the Aryas. Islam will rule in India and its islands. Having known these facts, O Muni, glorify the name of thy lord".

The Qur’an confirms this in Surah Taubah chapter 9 verse 33 and in Surah Al Saff chapter 61 verse 9:

"It is He who hath sent His Messenger with Guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it)".

A similar message is given in Surah Fatah chapter 48 verses 28 ending with, "and enough is Allah as a witness".


II. Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) Prophesised in Atharvaveda

In the 20th book of Atharvaveda Hymn 127 Some Suktas (chapters) are known as Kuntap Sukta. Kuntap means the consumer of misery and troubles. Thus meaning the message of peace and safety and if translated in Arabic means Islam.

Kuntap also means hidden glands in the abdomen. These mantras are called so probably because their true meaning was hidden and was to be revealed in future. Its hidden meaning is also connected with the navel or the middle point of this earth. Makkah is called the Ummul Qur’a the mother of the towns or the naval of the earth. In many revealed books it was the first house of Divine worship where God Almighty gave spiritual nourishment to the world. The Qur’an says in Surah Ali-Imran chapter 3, verse 96:

"The first house (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakkah (Makkah) full of blessings and of guidance and for all kinds of beings". Thus Kuntap stands for Makkah or Bakkah.

Several people have translated these Kuntap Suktas like M. Bloomfield, Prof. Ralph Griffith, Pandit Rajaram, Pandit Khem Karan, etc.

The main points mentioned in the Kuntap Suktas i.e. in Atharvaveda book 20 Hymn 127 verses 1-13 are:

Mantra 1
He is Narashansah or the praised one (Muhammad). He is Kaurama: the prince of peace or the emigrant, who is safe, even amongst a host of 60,090 enemies.

Mantra 2
He is a camel-riding Rishi, whose chariot touches the heaven.

Mantra 3
He is Mamah Rishi who is given a hundred gold coins, ten chaplets (necklaces), three hundred good steeds and ten thousand cows.

Mantra 4
Vachyesv rebh. ‘Oh! ye who glorifies’.

The Sanskrit word Narashansah means ‘the praised one’, which is the literal translation of the Arabic word Muhammad (pbuh).

The Sanskrit word Kaurama means ‘one who spreads and promotes peace’. The holy Prophet was the ‘Prince of Peace’ and he preached equality of human kind and universal brotherhood. Kaurama also means an emigrant. The Prophet migrated from Makkah to Madinah and was thus also an Emigrant.

 

[Islam432]

continuation

He will be protected from 60,090 enemies, which was the population of Makkah. The Prophet would ride a camel. This clearly indicates that it cannot be an Indian Rishi, since it is forbidden for a Brahman to ride a camel according to the Sacred Books of the East, volume 25, Laws of Manu pg. 472. According to Manu Smirti chapter 11 verse 202, "A Brahman is prohibited from riding a camel or an *** and to bathe naked. He should purify himself by suppressing his breath".

This mantra gave the Rishi's name as Mamah. No rishi in India or another Prophet had this name Mamah which is derived from Mah which means to esteem highly, or to revere, to exalt, etc. Some Sanskrit books give the Prophet’s name as ‘Mohammad’, but this word according to Sanskrit grammar can also be used in the bad sense. It is incorrect to apply grammar to an Arabic word. Actually shas the same meaning and somewhat similar pronunciation as the word Muhammad (pbuh).

He is given 100 gold coins, which refers to the believers and the earlier companions of the Prophet during his turbulent Makkan life. Later on due to persecution they migrated from Makkah to Abysinia. Later when Prophet migrated to Madinah all of them joined him in Madinah.

The 10 chaplets or necklaces were the 10 best companions of the Holy Prophet (pbuh) known as Ashra-Mubbashshira (10 bestowed with good news). These were foretold in this world of their salvation in the hereafter i.e. they were given the good news of entering paradise by the Prophet’s own lips and after naming each one he said "in Paradise". They were Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Talha, Zubair, Abdur Rahman Ibn Auf, Saad bin Abi Waqqas, Saad bin Zaid and Abu Ubaidah (May Allah be well-pleased with all of them).

The Sanskrit word Go is derived from Gaw which means ‘to go to war’. A cow is also called Go and is a symbol of war as well as peace. The 10,000 cows refer to the 10,000 companions who accompanied the Prophet (pbuh) when he entered Makkah during Fateh Makkah which was a unique victory in the history of mankind in which there was no blood shed. The 10,000 companions were pious and compassionate like cows and were at the same time strong and fierce and are described in the Holy Quran in Surah Fatah:
"Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah; and those who are with him are strong against unbelievers, (but) compassionate amongst each other."
[Al-Qur'an 48:29]

This mantra calls the Prophet as Rebh which means one who praises, which when translated into Arabic is Ahmed, which is another name for the Holy Prophet (pbuh).


Battle of the Allies described in the Vedas.

It is mentioned in Atharvaveda Book XX Hymn 21 verse 6, "Lord of the truthful! These liberators drink these feats of bravery and the inspiring songs gladdened thee in the field of battle. When thou renders vanquished without fight the ten thousand opponents of the praying one, the adoring one."


This Prophecy of the Veda describes the well-known battle of Ahzab or the battle of the Allies during the time of Prophet Muhammed. The Prophet was victorious without an actual conflict which is mentioned in the Qur’an in Surah Ahzab:

"When the believers saw the confederate forces they said, "This is what Allah and His Messenger had promised us and Allah and His Messenger told us what was true." And it only added to their faith and their zeal in obedience."
[Al-Qur'an 33:22]

The Sanskrit word karo in the Mantra means the ‘praying one’ which when translated into Arabic means ‘Ahmed’, the second name of Prophet Muhammed (pbuh).

The 10,000 opponents mentioned in the Mantra were the enemies of the Prophet and the Muslims were only 3000 in number.

The last words of the Mantra aprati ni bashayah means the defeat was given to the enemies without an actual fight.

The enemies’ defeat in the conquest of Makkah is mentioned in Atharvaveda book 20 Hymn 21 verse no 9:

"You have O Indra, overthrown 20 kings and 60,099 men with an outstripping Chariot wheel who came to fight the praised one or far famed (Muhammad) orphan."


The population of Makkah at the time of Prophet’s advent was nearly 60,000

There were several clans in Makkah each having its own chief. Totally there were about 20 chiefs to rule the population of Makkah.

An Abandhu meaning a helpless man who was far-famed and ‘praised one’. Muhammad (pbuh) overcame his enemies with the help of God.


III. Muhammad (pbuh) prophesised in the Rigveda

A similar prophecy is also found in Rigveda Book I, Hymn 53 verse 9:

The Sanskrit word used is Sushrama, which means praiseworthy or well praised which in Arabic means Muhammad (pbuh).

 

[Meow Mix]

[youtube]qVQ1BWqjTjs[/youtube]
YouTube - From Atheism to Belief: A Journey to Islam in North America by Dr. Jeffrey Lang (Part 1/17)

There are converts to every religion and converts away from every religion, what makes you think some Dr. Lang matters to this discussion?

 

[Meow Mix]

ok , if you are a hindu , according to your scriptures you should follow Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

I am not a Hindu, but I can see that you missed the entire point of my post altogether.

I think I'm just going to sit out on this thread from now on, seems to be a lost cause. :sleep:

 

[Islam432]

So does it's written in all world major religion that you should follow the messenger to come
including Buddhism,Zoroastrianism,Christianity,Judaism etc

i can quote all the scriptures and prove it to you

 

[Islam432]

There are converts to every religion and converts away from every religion, what makes you think some Dr. Lang matters to this discussion?

you need to check stats Islam is the fastest growing religion in world