Quran Vs Bible in light of science

[painted wolf]

In 1948, the Geologist Van Anglin stated in his book Geomorphology (on page no. 27) that it is quite well understood currently that there is a root for each mountain below the crust of the earth. The function of mountains on the earth is to fasten the crust of the earth. This fact was proven by the principle of hydrostatic balance of the earth as illustrated by the US Geologist Dutton, in 1889. He stated that the protrusions of the earth are immersed into the earth in a way that conforms to their height. Moreover, after the existence of the plates of the earth was proven in 1969, it became clear that the mountains are responsible for maintaining the equilibrium of all the plates. Further proof of this fact can be found in "Anatomy of the Earth (1968)" by French paleontologist and geologist. Page 220 of the book desribes mountains as "like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground". More proof can be found in "Understanding Earth" by Frank Press and Raymond Siever. On page 413 of their book it says that "mountains have roots deep under the surface of the ground".

I suggest you get some more up to date science than the 1960's.

Fault-Block mountains have no roots...

Nor to young Fold Mountains like the Himalayas have 'deep roots', they are still being propped up and have yet to settle downward.
Nor do most Volcanic Mountains.

Again, they certainly don't act as pegs to hold the land still and prevent it from shaking. Even here in New England our extremely old mountains still provide us with plenty of little earthquakes to talk about throughout the year.

wa:do

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

This line of reasoning is usually based on a very flimsy understanding of science exhibited by both "Dr." Naik

True ...but...

This is one of the least of his problems. I see Dr Naik as a person who has a very calm and nice presentation who is the whole time exasperating religious prejudice and extremism.

 

[YmirGF]

True ...but...

This is one of the least of his problems. I see Dr Naik as a person who has a very calm and nice presentation who is the whole time exasperating religious prejudice and extremism.

You left out "and playing on people's ignorance."

 

[darkendless]

To the muslim members:

Use your own head, stop copying stuff from other websites. We've all seen exactly the same articles before in similar threads.

 

[gnostic]

Not to mention that they revolved around the Earth according to the Quran.

Yes. :yes:

The Qur'an and the medieval Muslim scientists after Muhammad supported the better known Ptolemy's geocentric planetary model.

Claudius Ptolemeus, better known simply as Ptolemy, was a 2nd century Greek astronomer, living in Egypt. Ptolemy wrote several important treatises: The Almagest (astronomy and mathematics), the Geographia (geography, obviously), and the Tetrabiblos (astrology). All 3 treatises were known to Muhammad's time and that of the medieval Muslim scientists, just as they were influenced by the works of Aristotle and Archimedes.

Basically, the geocentric model is a system of planetary motions, where the earth is stationary, while the 7 known planets at that time, which include the sun and moon as planets, traverse our day and night skies. From our geo-perspective (us standing outside to view the sky) without the aid of the telescope, the ancient and medieval astronomers would naturally come to the conclusion that the sun and moon were moving in their courses.

The evidence that the Qur'an support the geocentric model is found in verse 21:33:

And He it is Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They float, each in an orbit.

It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: all (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.

He it is who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each floating in a sky.

The verse speaks of night and day, and how the sun and moon traverse the sky, each in its own orbit. This clearly demonstrated that the geocentric model were known even Muhammad's days. It assume that the sun is moving, causing day and night, when it is really not. It also assume that the Sun has an orbit around the Earth, instead of the other way around. So the Qur'an is also wrong about the day and night.

The heliocentric model is a system of planetary movements, which have their orbits around the Sun, including that of the Earth.

Galileo prove with telescope that the heliocentric model his precedessor, Nicholaus Copernicus, and his contemporary, Johannes Kepler were correct. (Copernicus was partially correct, he assumed that the planetary orbits were perfectly circular.)

The heliocentric model was older than Copernicus, and known centuries before Ptolemy's time.

Aristarchus of Samos, who flourished, was the first to put forward the heliocentric model, but without the aid of the telescope, it was not a popular theory. Aristarchus's writing on the heliocentric model was lost, but he was quoted by Archimedes. However, few scientists and philosophers of those days support the heliocentric system, and was completely quashed by Ptolemy's time.

The Sun is not moving at all, at least from the perspective of our solar system.

And before any Muslim say that the Sun do move, around its orbit of our galaxy's centre, yes, I know that. But we are dealing with our solar system, and with the quote from 21:33. Our Sun's galatical orbit doesn't affect our day and night.

We know now that the Earth have day and night because of the Earth's rotation on its axis (poles), and not simply because the Sun traverse our sky during the daytime. This was known by Greek scientists/philosophers, as early as Heraclides of Pontus, from the 4th century BCE.

 

[gnostic]

I don't remember the verse, but I recall that Qur'an the sun, moon and stars were in one of Earth's lower layer of atmosphere. Exactly, which layers that celestial bodies reside in, I don't remember; all I remember is that it was lower layer.

Ah!!! I found the quote.

Who created the seven heavens one above another; you see no incongruity in the creation of the Beneficent God; then look again, can you see any disorder?
Then turn back the eye again and again; your look shall '~ come back to you confused while it is fatigued.
And certainly We have adorned this lower heaven with lamps.

So He ordained them seven heavens in two periods, and revealed in every heaven its affair; and We adorned the lower heaven with brilliant stars and (made it) to guard; that is the decree of the Mighty, the Knowing.

If the 7 layers of heaven referred to the "7 layers of atmosphere", then why would the lower atmosphere have stars. This is clearly flawed.

If Allah is all-knowing when he supposedly wrote the Qur'an, then he should know the stars were not in any Earth's atmosphere, let alone at the lowest layer. The Sun and Moon is also not in the Earth's atmosphere.

As early as Aristarchus of Samos, whom I have already mention in my last post, Aristarchus believed that the stars were further away than the sun, moon and 5 known planets (Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn; Uranus wasn't discovered until the late 18th century) at that time.

The verses demonstrate again, that the Qur'an is scientifically and astronomically incorrect.

 

[gnostic]

This journey of the sun is referred to by Allah as follows:

And the sun runs on unto a resting-place for him. That is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing. (Surah Yasin, 38)

What does this supposed to mean? This "resting-place"?

This quote is completely meaningless. Care to explain?

And what does this have to do with this:

The sun, as one of the billions of stars in the universe, travels more than 17 million kilometers a day in space.

You speak of the sun traveling in space, but you speak of the sun going to a resting-place.

Do you mean resting-place like in "graveyard" or "tomb"?

Your interpretation doesn't match your quotation of the verse.

 

[Islam432]

History of ferrous metallurgy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Metal in Egypt
Wapedia - Wiki: History of ferrous metallurgy
Ancient Egyptian materials and ... - Google Books
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

All the webs say that iron was found by Egyptians ,and they made tools,weapons etc from it but nowhere it says that Egyptian found iron is present in a meteoroid's which had hit the earth

A "fall" means the meteorite was witnessed by someone as it fell from the sky. A "find" means the meteorite was not witnessed and the meteorite was found after the fact. About 33% of the meteorites are witnessed falls. The following table is from a book by Vagn F. Buchwald. Included are all known meteorites (4660 in all, weighing a total of 494625 kg) in the period
1740-1990 (excluding meteorites found in Antarctica).

Source: Meteorites, Meteorites and Impacts

 

[Islam432]

Why is it, do you think, that out of 33 English translations only 4 use the term egg-shaped? My guess is because the term doesn't really mean what you are saying it does. It is also of interest that the 4 that use the term egg-shaped are also all written since 1973, with 3 of them being in the last seven years. Curiously, no one prior to this thought to mention "egg shaped" which would seem to be a very serious omission.

Rashad Khalifa - Miracle of the Quran: Significance of the mysterious alphabets - Out of Print--Limited Availability. (1973)
Syed Vickar Ahamed - English Translation of the Message of The Quran (2005)
Shabbir Ahmed -The Qur'an As It Explains Itself (2003)
Ali Unal -The Qur-an with Annotated Interpretation in Modern English (2005)

In all honesty, I find it very difficult to accept that fully 29 other translators missed this little nugget. It seems more likely that the more recent variants are simply inserting the description to make it sound more meaningful than it really is. In my view that is the willful act of desperation by revisionists. Further to this, when you look at the rendering of the 29 they are saying almost the same thing, in slightly different ways. That leads me to believe that theirs IS the correct rendering and that the 4 rogues translations are translations with agendas.

This is a good question , you yourself said Arabic is very complicated one words has many meanings , and you said why doesn't God stated things in simple matter??

You see if a layman/uneducated will read Quran , he will see the same verse in another way , and the same verse if an educated man reads Quran he will clearly see the scientific part mentioned in Quran...this is the beauty of Quran

And why didnt Allah said in clear and straight and clear manner? i have replied to this before

The reason why Allah Almighty might not have said it as clear and straight forward is because it would've been impossible for people back then to have accepted Islam if the Noble Quran contained "crazy" claims in it. So, while Noble Verse 27:88 did not sound crazy to Muslims 1500 years ago, it is most definitely an accurate Scientific Statement to us today.

Allah Almighty purposely made the Noble Quran for all times and all places. And He purposely DID NOT make every Noble Verse be possible for interpretation 1500 years ago. Let's look at an example:

"Over it are Nineteen. And We have set none but angels as Guardians of the Fire; and We have fixed their number only as a trial for Unbelievers,- in order that the People of the Book may arrive at certainty, and the Believers may increase in Faith,- and that no doubts may be left for the People of the Book and the Believers, and that those in whose hearts is a disease and the Unbelievers may say, 'What symbol doth God intend by this?' Thus doth God leave to stray whom He pleaseth, and guide whom He pleaseth: and none can know the forces of thy Lord, except He and this is no other than a warning to mankind. (The Noble Quran, 74:30-31)"

So, while the number 19 was impossible to interpret 1500 years ago in Noble Verses 74:30-31, but by the Will of Allah Almighty, it became clear to us today. The number 19 was proven to be a fundamental and very important number in the Computer technology today, and adding to that, the Noble Quran's numerical codes are all based on the number 19, which only the computer machine was able to calculate and figure out!

 

[Islam432]

Again, common knowledge of the day does not equate to some "scientific miracle".

Not only did they have the simple examples of mothers giving birth, animal husbandry was quite common and quite advanced.

Buddy you need to get your scientific facts straight

Modern Embryology is developed just recently in last 50-100 years back

like i said , As there were no microscopes or lenses available in the 7th century, doctors would not have known that the human embryo had this leech-like appearance. In the early part of the fourth week, the embryo is just visible to the unaided eye because it is smaller than a kernel of wheat.

 

[Islam432]

A great example of "superior" Islamic thinking, no doubt.

1 out billions of muslims thats the best you could come with

almost 99% Muslim scholars agree that the verse says "egg shaped" and you bring the only one who says earth is flat

Also in same way many many Atheists have converted to islam they have agreed that this is the truth, dosent it prove it's you who has "inferior thinking"

 

[Islam432]

I suggest you get some more up to date science than the 1960's.

Fault-Block mountains have no roots...

Nor to young Fold Mountains like the Himalayas have 'deep roots', they are still being propped up and have yet to settle downward.
Nor do most Volcanic Mountains.

Again, they certainly don't act as pegs to hold the land still and prevent it from shaking. Even here in New England our extremely old mountains still provide us with plenty of little earthquakes to talk about throughout the year.

wa:do

First of all i gave both references from modern book aswell as old books, also those all the books are accepted by majority of geologist today

i think i already explained it

that the radius of the Earth is approximately 3750 miles, and the deeper layers, they are hot and fluid, and cannot sustain life. And the superficial part of the Earth's crust, which we live on, it is very thin - Hardly 1 to 30 miles. Some portions are thicker, but majority one to 30 miles. And there are high possibility that this superficial layer, the Earth's crust - it will shake. It is due to the Folding phenomena, which gives rise to mountain ranges, which gives stability to this Earth.

also i couldn't find the depth of Himalayan mounatin , could you give me the link

 

[Islam432]

True ...but...

This is one of the least of his problems. I see Dr Naik as a person who has a very calm and nice presentation who is the whole time exasperating religious prejudice and extremism.

yes , its not his fault many people around the world like him , this creates jealousy among those people who oppose his ideas and with time jealousy turns to hatred thats what i see here

 

[tumbleweed41]

yes , its not his fault many people around the world like him , this creates jealousy among those people who oppose his ideas and with time jealousy turns to hatred thats what i see here

There is a difference between hatred and exposing fraudulent and inflammatory claims.


BTW, have you yet found any current scientific knowledge whose origins can be traced to the Qu'ran?

 

[Islam432]

To the muslim members:

Use your own head, stop copying stuff from other websites. We've all seen exactly the same articles before in similar threads.

You mean to say the geology part , yeah copying things from site which has explained things with good interpretation and logic is not a problem , also iam only 1-2 hours per day , difficult to write all stuff in small time though iam planning on next summer to write a book on 'quran and modern science' with massive details

 

[Islam432]

There is a difference between hatred and exposing fraudulent and inflammatory claims.


BTW, have you yet found any current scientific knowledge whose origins can be traced to the Qu'ran?

bro , Quran is book of SIGNS not SCIENCE , it doesn't contain newton's law or Einstein's theory if you are searching for trying to search for things like that

for example "Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? (The Noble Quran, 21:30)"

its a verse is addressing to non-muslims referring to Big-Bang and and other part telling human body , which made up of water

and another place

"Soon We will show them our signs in the (farthest) regions (of the earth), and in their own souls, until it becomes manifest to them that this is the Truth. Is it not enough that thy Lord doth witness all things?"

[Al-Quran 41:53]

 

[Islam432]

What does this supposed to mean? This "resting-place"?

This quote is completely meaningless. Care to explain?

And what does this have to do with this:


You speak of the sun traveling in space, but you speak of the sun going to a resting-place.

Do you mean resting-place like in "graveyard" or "tomb"?

Your interpretation doesn't match your quotation of the verse.

ohh.geez...i have explained it before

the verse means that the sun will continue its motion as one of the billions of stars in the universe ,it travels more than 17 million kilometers a day in space and will provide us energy till an appointed time after which it will die (and even scientists have calculated the half life of sun)

 

[tumbleweed41]

bro , Quran is book of SIGNS not SCIENCE

And Signs can be interpreted and reinterpreted to fit many scenarios.
Thus the previously mentioned Forer Effect.

 

[Islam432]

And Signs can be interpreted and reinterpreted to fit many scenarios.
Thus the previously mentioned Forer Effect.

if don't wanna believe in it then don't , iam not the one who's telling you to stay here and listen to what i have to say

 

[tumbleweed41]

if don't believe in it then don't , iam not the one who's telling you to stay here and listen to what i have to say

Cop-out. If you are going to post extraordinary claims, be prepared to defend them.

Here is how your 'Signs' work.
If tomorrow, scientists found that the Big Bang was based on faulty science, and instead the Universe originated from a gradual gathering of preexisting elements from the aether, you would point to the same Suras and say, "Look, the Qu'ran backs up what has been discovered."