Quran Vs Bible in light of science

[McBell]

Hey, my points about mountains not stopping earthquakes hasn't even been touched.

wa:do

I doubt if it will be.

There is no way it can touched without either agreeing with it or making them selves look even more foolish by disagreeing with it.

Though there are those who care not about how foolish they look.
So there may be some hope for you yet...

 

[Islam432]

i quite enjoy talking with you too. you and a few other members have opened my eyes on some topics, and for that i thank you.

i love a good dialogue (even about my own faith), and the sad part is that any valid point Islam432 may have is completely lost when the insults start.

i still don't refer to the Qur'an as a scientific reference, and he won't convince me to do so...but there's no harm in a good chat.

1. lol...Ive told many times , yes Quran is not the book of Science but the books of Signs ...And yes Quran is Definitely above science but for non-muslims i.e Atheist 'science is the ultimate criteria for him' and that's exactly what iam doing proving to non-muslims from quran that how superior Quran is to science

 

[Islam432]

I doubt if it will be.

There is no way it can touched without either agreeing with it or making them selves look even more foolish by disagreeing with it.

Though there are those who care not about how foolish they look.
So there may be some hope for you yet...

ok i will talk on that so-called misconception too if you are ready too listen

 

[Islam432]

Ignoring for the moment YECer types looking for substantiation for their flawed believes from outside sources...

There is nothing in the quran which offers science anything. Passages speaking only of man being made from clay, dust, and other soils, or water.

Considering that animal husbandry, not to mention watching births of human beings, were well under way during that period, the quran is, in fact, rather lacking in it's descriptions of procreation and the origin of men.

Most notably in the latter, the complete lack of anything mentioning Evolution, a scientifically proven fact.

i think you dont have the slightest clue about quran
and comparing Bible( not injeel) to Quran is like comparing a Ant to a mountain

 

[DeitySlayer]

1. lol...Ive told many times , yes Quran is not the book of Science but the books of Signs ...And yes Quran is Definitely above science but for non-muslims i.e Atheist 'science is the ultimate criteria for him' and that's exactly what iam doing proving to non-muslims from quran that how superior Quran is to science

Medicine came from non-Qur'anic science. So did computers, electricity, cars, central heating, GM crops.

The Qur'an is superior to all this?

 

[gnostic]

No he's calming that iam twisting things etc
so why doesn't he do the same for bible

Is AxisMundi a Christian or Jew, Islam432?

Is AxisMundi a literal creationist who tried to fit in ?

If AxisMundi is not either of, then why would AxisMundi even bother to twist the words of the bible?

AxisMundi already admitted that the Bible has no scientific values whatsoever, in nearly 50 years that he or she has read the bible. If this is true what he say, then it is damn pointless for AxisMundi to twist words around about the bible to meet the scientific requirement.

Do you understand what I am getting at?

If he doesn't believe in the bible has scientific values, then twisting the verses would not help him.

You are the one who tried to fit the Qur'an verses to modern science, not AxisMundi.

 

[Islam432]

Geology in Quran

1)Mountains
book entitled Earth is a basic reference textbook in many universities around the world. One of its two authors is Professor Emeritus Frank Press. He was the Science Advisor to former US President Jimmy Carter, and for 12 years was the President of the National Academy of Sciences, Washington, DC. His book says that mountains have underlying roots These roots are deeply embedded in the ground, thus, mountains have a shape like a peg (see pictures below).

Mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground. (Earth, Press and Siever, p. 413.)


Schematic section. The mountains, like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground. (Anatomy of the Earth, Cailleux, p. 220.)


Another illustration shows how the mountains are peg-like in shape, due to their deep roots. (Earth Science, Tarbuck and Lutgens, p. 158.)
This is how the Quran has described mountains.
"Have We not made the earth as a bed, and the mountains as pegs? " (Quran, 78:6-7)


Modern earth sciences have proven that mountains have deep roots under the surface of the ground \and that these roots can reach several times their elevations above the surface of the ground.
So the most suitable word to describe mountains on the basis of this information is the word ‘peg,’ since most of a properly set peg is hidden under the surface of the ground. The history of science tells us that the theory of mountains having deep roots was introduced only in the latter half of the nineteenth century

Mountains also play an important role in stabilizing the crust of the earth, They hinder the shaking of the earth.

"And He has set firm mountains in the earth so that it would not shake with you... " (Quran, 16:15)

Likewise, the modern theory of plate tectonics holds that mountains work as stabilizers for the earth. This knowledge about the role of mountains as stabilizers for the earth has just begun to be understood in the framework of plate tectonics since the late 1960’s
Plate tectonics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

For complete Answers and more versus relating to mountains and science read:
Geological Concept of Mountains in the Quran

 

[Islam432]

2)Atmosphere

"It is He who hath created for you all things that are on earth; moreover His design comprehended the heavens for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; (sab'a sama_wa_t(in)) and of all things he hath perfect knowledge"

Surah Al-Baqara Surah 2 Ayah 29​

Two words are used for heaven or sky in the Quran: "asma" and "taraiq". One can be translated as firmament (asma) and the other one as heaven (taraiq). Both have a distinguished scientific meaning and implication. The meaning of heaven (taraiq) will be dealt with in Astronomy 2, the meaning of firmament (asama) is being dealt in this chapter.
The seven firmaments are the seven layers of the Earth's atmosphere. According to modern geological definition these are defined as the following: Troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, exosphere, ionosphere and magnetosphere (Compton's Encyclopaedia), exactly seven in number:

THE SEVEN LAYERS OF THE ATMOSPHERE


Atmosphere - Role


By the Firmament (sama_wa_t(in)) which returns

Surah At-Tariq Surah 86 Ayah 11 ​

The seven layers themselves, being gaseous compounds, are returned to the Earth permanently and are kept back from evaporation by the gravity of the Earth:
So the firmament returns itself due to its mass in the gravitational field of the Earth. It also reflects back hazardous material and waves into the universe and other essential substances back to the Earth. Only a small percentage is let through, like the 2% UV from the sun, which is the vehicle of photosynthesis and necessary for us to be able to breathe in the first place. An oath worth swearing as in S 86: A11.
Only the very Creator of the Earth can have sworn this oath since it was written down 1350 years ago. Neither did methods for the measurement of atmospheric refraction exist in those times nor were there any satellites for taking infrared pictures of the layers of the atmosphere. Neither were there balloons with thermometers and signal transmission which are a basic necessity for measuring changes in the atmosphere. These were not invented for at least another 1000 years.


THE EARTH'S MAGNETFIELD IS THE HIGHEST LAYER OF THE ATMOSPHERE AND REACHES FAR INTO THE SOLAR SYSTEM, PERMANENTLY REFLECTING UNCOUNTABLE PARTICLES. IT IS CAUSED BY THE OPPOSITE ROTATION OF THE EARTH'S INTERIOR (G 2)

 

[painted wolf]

So why are there more earthquakes where there are mountains?
The bigger the mountains the bigger the earthquakes.

Mountains are formed by two massive landmasses pushing up, or grinding against each other... They are the direct result of earthquake causing activity.

you should actually read that Wiki article:

The location where two plates meet is called a plate boundary, and plate boundaries are commonly associated with geological events such as earthquakes and the creation of topographic features such as mountains, volcanoes, mid-ocean ridges, and oceanic trenches. The majority of the world's active volcanoes occur along plate boundaries, with the Pacific Plate's Ring of Fire being most active and most widely known. These boundaries are discussed in further detail below.

Here is an image from the article on Earthquakes... notice where there are major mountain chains you have earthquakes... where you have no mountains you have almost no earthquakes. Clearly mountains aren't doing a very good job are they?

Earthquake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, mountains are not like pegs... they are thicker than the surrounding mantle but they are not as exaggerated as the demonstration pictures show. So unless you use a peg shaped like a home made cookie I don't see the comparison.

wa:do

 

[AxisMundi]

1. lol...Ive told many times , yes Quran is not the book of Science but the books of Signs ...And yes Quran is Definitely above science but for non-muslims i.e Atheist 'science is the ultimate criteria for him' and that's exactly what iam doing proving to non-muslims from quran that how superior Quran is to science

The Quran supports a flat, geocentric earth.

Hardly "superior to science".

 

[AxisMundi]

i think you dont have the slightest clue about quran
and comparing Bible( not injeel) to Quran is like comparing a Ant to a mountain

Sorry Charlie, your scriptures are no better than anyone else's, and right out there for everyone to read as well.

 

[AxisMundi]

2)Atmosphere

"It is He who hath created for you all things that are on earth; moreover His design comprehended the heavens for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; (sab'a sama_wa_t(in)) and of all things he hath perfect knowledge"

Surah Al-Baqara Surah 2 Ayah 29​

Two words are used for heaven or sky in the Quran: "asma" and "taraiq". One can be translated as firmament (asma) and the other one as heaven (taraiq). Both have a distinguished scientific meaning and implication. The meaning of heaven (taraiq) will be dealt with in Astronomy 2, the meaning of firmament (asama) is being dealt in this chapter.
The seven firmaments are the seven layers of the Earth's atmosphere. According to modern geological definition these are defined as the following: Troposphere, stratosphere, mesosphere, thermosphere, exosphere, ionosphere and magnetosphere (Compton's Encyclopaedia), exactly seven in number:

THE SEVEN LAYERS OF THE ATMOSPHERE


Atmosphere - Role


By the Firmament (sama_wa_t(in)) which returns

Surah At-Tariq Surah 86 Ayah 11 ​

The seven layers themselves, being gaseous compounds, are returned to the Earth permanently and are kept back from evaporation by the gravity of the Earth:
So the firmament returns itself due to its mass in the gravitational field of the Earth. It also reflects back hazardous material and waves into the universe and other essential substances back to the Earth. Only a small percentage is let through, like the 2% UV from the sun, which is the vehicle of photosynthesis and necessary for us to be able to breathe in the first place. An oath worth swearing as in S 86: A11.
Only the very Creator of the Earth can have sworn this oath since it was written down 1350 years ago. Neither did methods for the measurement of atmospheric refraction exist in those times nor were there any satellites for taking infrared pictures of the layers of the atmosphere. Neither were there balloons with thermometers and signal transmission which are a basic necessity for measuring changes in the atmosphere. These were not invented for at least another 1000 years.


THE EARTH'S MAGNETFIELD IS THE HIGHEST LAYER OF THE ATMOSPHERE AND REACHES FAR INTO THE SOLAR SYSTEM, PERMANENTLY REFLECTING UNCOUNTABLE PARTICLES. IT IS CAUSED BY THE OPPOSITE ROTATION OF THE EARTH'S INTERIOR (G 2)

Thanks for showing how you are twisting the words to fit your agenda.

Firstly, there are not "seven layers of the atmosphere", nor is the magnetosphere considered a layer of atmosphere. It is a phenomina produced by the earth's magnetic field, not our atmosphere. Some basic research of scientific sources will show you the FIVE layers of the atmosphere, but wiki will suffice...

The basic four or five layers of the atmosphere, beginning with the closest to the surface :

• Troposphere
• Stratosphere
• Mesosphere
• Thermosphere (can include the ionosphere)
• Exosphere (the outermost layer, sometimes included as part of the thermosphere)

One mnemonic is : "Tropical Sugary Mangoes Taste Excellent".
(see related question)

WikiAnswers - What are the five layers of the atmosphere in order

Secondly, the Seven Firmaments/heavens refers to the seven observable celestial bodies we can see with the naked eyes, bodies thought to represent, depending on which system one believed in, to be either gods or "the seven heavens" as they revolved around the flat, geocentric earth.

They were, in order and using modern names, the moon, Mercury, Venus, the Sun (yes, the Sun), Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn respectfully.

Now, any other Apologetic nonsence you would like to have explained to you?

 

[gnostic]

I don't remember the verse, but I recall that Qur'an the sun, moon and stars were in one of Earth's lower layer of atmosphere. Exactly, which layers that celestial bodies reside in, I don't remember; all I remember is that it was lower layer.

 

[darkendless]

May i ask ,your a scientist in which field??

geology

 

[DeitySlayer]

Resorting to twisting science again, eh?

1) Mountains are not like pegs. Pegs are bodies which are staked through a separate body. Mountain 'roots' are part of the crust, not separate entities.

2) Earthquakes still occur and in fact have a higher prevalence near mountain ranges. So they're doing a pretty sh*te job.

3) The magnetosphere is not an atmospheric layer.

 

[Islam432]

The Quran supports a flat, geocentric earth.

Hardly "superior to science".

lol...and you claim you have read quran
i will repeat the verse again

Shape of earth
[079:030] He made the earth egg-shaped.

ORBITS DESCRIBED IN THE QUR'AN

Above, we have stated that the heavenly bodies are in motion in space. These movements are fully controlled and all bodies move in a computed orbit. In the Qur'an, certain verses referring to the sun and the moon run as follows:
"The sun and the moon follow courses (exactly) computed". (Surat ar-Rahman, 5) "It is not for the sun to catch up the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. Each (just) swims along in (its own) orbit." (Surah Yasin, 40) Another verse to the same effect declares:

It is He Who created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon. They swim along, each in an orbit. (Surat al-Anbiya, 33)

According to a currently acknowledged theory, massive and voluminous bodies in the universe exert a gravitational force on smaller bodies. For example, the moon makes an orbit around the earth, which has a bigger volume. The earth and other planets in the solar system move in an orbit around the sun. There exists a still bigger system around which the solar system makes an orbit. The most critical point in all these details is that none of the stars, planets and other bodies in space make an uncontrolled move, cut across each other's orbit, or hit one another.

The Qur'an signifies the harmonious movement of these bodies as follows:
By the sky full of paths and orbits. (Surat adh-Dhariyat, 7)

The sun, as one of the billions of stars in the universe, travels more than 17 million kilometers a day in space. This journey of the sun is referred to by Allah as follows:

And the sun runs on unto a resting-place for him. That is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing. (Surah Yasin, 38)


no where its mentioned that earth is geocentric, before making crazy claims atleast quote the verses from quran

 

[Islam432]

Resorting to twisting science again, eh?

1) Mountains are not like pegs. Pegs are bodies which are staked through a separate body. Mountain 'roots' are part of the crust, not separate entities.

2) Earthquakes still occur and in fact have a higher prevalence near mountain ranges. So they're doing a pretty sh*te job.

3) The magnetosphere is not an atmospheric layer.

In 1948, the Geologist Van Anglin stated in his book Geomorphology (on page no. 27) that it is quite well understood currently that there is a root for each mountain below the crust of the earth. The function of mountains on the earth is to fasten the crust of the earth. This fact was proven by the principle of hydrostatic balance of the earth as illustrated by the US Geologist Dutton, in 1889. He stated that the protrusions of the earth are immersed into the earth in a way that conforms to their height. Moreover, after the existence of the plates of the earth was proven in 1969, it became clear that the mountains are responsible for maintaining the equilibrium of all the plates. Further proof of this fact can be found in "Anatomy of the Earth (1968)" by French paleontologist and geologist. Page 220 of the book desribes mountains as "like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground". More proof can be found in "Understanding Earth" by Frank Press and Raymond Siever. On page 413 of their book it says that "mountains have roots deep under the surface of the ground".

 

[DeitySlayer]

The most critical point in all these details is that none of the stars, planets and other bodies in space make an uncontrolled move, cut across each other's orbit, or hit one another.

Neptune and Pluto cross paths.

The sun, as one of the billions of stars in the universe, travels more than 17 million kilometers a day in space. This journey of the sun is referred to by Allah as follows:

And the sun runs on unto a resting-place for him. That is the decree of (Him), the Exalted in Might, the All-Knowing. (Surah Yasin, 38)

The Sun does not have a 'resting place'; it is in constant orbit around the galactic centre. The euphemism 'resting place' only makes sense in light of the Sun 'setting' on a particular point on the Earth.

 

[Islam432]

Thanks for showing how you are twisting the words to fit your agenda.

Firstly, there are not "seven layers of the atmosphere", nor is the magnetosphere considered a layer of atmosphere. It is a phenomina produced by the earth's magnetic field, not our atmosphere. Some basic research of scientific sources will show you the FIVE layers of the atmosphere, but wiki will suffice...

The basic four or five layers of the atmosphere, beginning with the closest to the surface :

• Troposphere
• Stratosphere
• Mesosphere
• Thermosphere (can include the ionosphere)
• Exosphere (the outermost layer, sometimes included as part of the thermosphere)

One mnemonic is : "Tropical Sugary Mangoes Taste Excellent".
(see related question)

WikiAnswers - What are the five layers of the atmosphere in order

Secondly, the Seven Firmaments/heavens refers to the seven observable celestial bodies we can see with the naked eyes, bodies thought to represent, depending on which system one believed in, to be either gods or "the seven heavens" as they revolved around the flat, geocentric earth.

They were, in order and using modern names, the moon, Mercury, Venus, the Sun (yes, the Sun), Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn respectfully.

Now, any other Apologetic nonsence you would like to have explained to you?

I Didn't twist anything i quoted it from,(Compton's Encyclopaedia)
And at least you agreed there are six layer of earth's atmosphere , the seventh layer(magnetosphere) which i mentioned it acts as a shield for lower atmosphere , so technically it is part of atmosphere

The Earth is bombarded by proton, electron and alpha particles from the Sun. These solar winds are powerful enough to separate the atmosphere from the Earth. However, it will take about five times longer than the total life of the Sun at the Earth's present rate of matter loss (at most 3 kg per second.) for the atmosphere to be used up.31 That is because, thanks to the powerful magnetic field formed by the magnetosphere in the atmosphere, the Earth is to some extent protected from this powerful erosion. The loss of ions-oxygen, helium and hydrogen-dispersed over the Earth's ionosphere layer into the depths of space is of much smaller dimensions than the vast layer of air surrounding the Earth. Even so, the amount leaking into space is nevertheless of a significant size.32

 

[Islam432]

So why are there more earthquakes where there are mountains?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthquake

Also, mountains are not like pegs... they are thicker than the surrounding mantle but they are not as exaggerated as the demonstration pictures show. So unless you use a peg shaped like a home made cookie I don't see the comparison.

same Question , i will repeat the answer again

In 1948, the Geologist Van Anglin stated in his book Geomorphology (on page no. 27) that it is quite well understood currently that there is a root for each mountain below the crust of the earth. The function of mountains on the earth is to fasten the crust of the earth. This fact was proven by the principle of hydrostatic balance of the earth as illustrated by the US Geologist Dutton, in 1889. He stated that the protrusions of the earth are immersed into the earth in a way that conforms to their height. Moreover, after the existence of the plates of the earth was proven in 1969, it became clear that the mountains are responsible for maintaining the equilibrium of all the plates. Further proof of this fact can be found in "Anatomy of the Earth (1968)" by French paleontologist and geologist. Page 220 of the book desribes mountains as "like pegs, have deep roots embedded in the ground". More proof can be found in "Understanding Earth" by Frank Press and Raymond Siever. On page 413 of their book it says that "mountains have roots deep under the surface of the ground".