Quran Vs Bible in light of science

[Bismillah]

Islam424, no offense but you are wasting time. Your responses will never satisfy them, believe me. To understand Islam is to hold faith in something much greater than ourselves or our pathetic attempts to understand our surroundings. These gentlemen are the opposite of us, spiritually at least.

 

[Islam432]

Neptune and Pluto cross paths.

no,Pluto is an asteroid in the Kuiper belt and that it was pulled by gravity into a planetary orbit. The fact that it's orbit is highly eccentric and different than the other planets...so it's a exception

The Sun does not have a 'resting place'; it is in constant orbit around the galactic centre. The euphemism 'resting place' only makes sense in light of the Sun 'setting' on a particular point on the Earth.

Here the verse means that the sun will continue its motion and provide us energy till an appointed time(and even scientists have calculated the half life of sun) after which it will die

 

[Islam432]

Islam424, no offense but you are wasting time. Your responses will never satisfy them, believe me. To understand Islam is to hold faith in something much greater than ourselves or our pathetic attempts to understand our surroundings. These gentlemen are the opposite of us, spiritually at least.

I guess , you are right

also iam happy to see some muslims here ,otherwise it was more like 50 vs 1 but i like that odds

 

[Bismillah]

lol! Ya I did the same thing for a long time some time back and realized it was for no good reason. Now I just avoid trying to convert hard headed atheists/scientists and stick with matters in the physical realm that concern Islam.

Salam, abibi

 

[DeitySlayer]

no,Pluto is an asteroid in the Kuiper belt and that it was pulled by gravity into a planetary orbit. The fact that it's orbit is highly eccentric and different than the other planets...so it's a exception

Perfection does not have exceptions.

 

[Islam432]

lol! Ya I did the same thing for a long time some time back and realized it was for no good reason. Now I just avoid trying to convert hard headed atheists/scientists and stick with matters in the physical realm that concern Islam.

Salam, abibi

Yeah , totally agreed:yes:

 

[Islam432]

Geology -Continuation

3)THE EARTH DISGORGES ITS CHARGES

When the earth is convulsed with its quaking and the earth then disgorges its charges and man asks, "What is wrong with it?", on that Day it will impart all its news. (Qur'an, 99:1-4)

The word "zilzal" in Arabic means earthquake, or tremors, and the word "athqalaha" means "charges, heavy burdens." When one considers the above verses in the light of the first meaning, it can be seen that reference is being made to an important scientific fact about earthquakes.

Surat az-Zilzal 2 mentions the earth disgorging its charges. Indeed, as a result of research in recent years, it has been realised that there are heavy metals at the centre of the Earth, and that these appear as a result of movements on the Earth's surface. According to geologists' calculations, as the Earth cooled, heavy and dense substances sank to its centre, while lighter ones rose to the surface. For that reason, the Earth's crust consists of the least heaviest substances (basalt and granite rocks), while heavy metals (nickel and iron) are found in the core. As a result, the subsurface, which consists of molten metals, is made of a material that is much heavier and denser than the surface.

During earthquakes, the heavy substances below the surface have an opportunity to rise, and the Earth thus disgorges its charges, as revealed in the Qur'an. Moreover, those regions where metal reserves are most concentrated are also those with the greatest volcanic activity. These scientific findings, which emerged only recently, and as a result of wide-ranging research, are just some of the scientific facts indicated by Allah in the Qur'an.

4)THE MOVEMENT OF MOUNTAINS

In one verse, we are informed that mountains are not motionless as they seem, but are in constant motion.

And you see the mountains, you think they are solid, while they are passing by like the clouds. The making of God who perfected everything. He is Expert over what you do. (Qur'an, 27:88)

This motion of mountains is caused by the movement of the Earth's crust that they are located on. The Earth's crust "floats" over the mantle layer, which is denser. It was at the beginning of the 20th century when, for the first time in history, a German scientist by the name of Alfred Wegener proposed that the continents of the Earth had been attached together when it first formed, but then drifted in different directions, and thus separated as they moved away from each other.

Geologists understood that Wegener was right only in the 1980s, 50 years after his death. As Wegener pointed out in an article published in 1915, the land masses on the Earth were joined together about 500 million years ago, and this large mass, called Pangaea, was located in the South Pole.

Approximately 180 million years ago, Pangaea divided into two parts, which drifted in different directions. One of these giant continents was Gondwana, which included Africa, Australia, Antarctica and India. The second one was Laurasia, which included Europe, North America and Asia, except for India. Over the next 150 million years following this separation, Gondwana and Laurasia divided into smaller parts.

These continents, that emerged after the split of Pangaea, have been constantly moving on the Earth's surface at a rate of several centimetres per year, and in the meantime changing the sea to land ratios of the Earth.

Discovered as a result of the geological research carried out at the beginning of the 20th century, this movement of the Earth's crust is explained by scientists as follows:

The crust and the uppermost part of the mantle, with a thickness of about 100 kms., are divided into segments called plates. There are six major plates, and several small ones. According to the theory called plate tectonics, these plates move about on Earth, carrying continents and ocean floor with them. Continental motion has been measured at from 1-5 cm per year. As the plates continue to move about, this will produce a slow change in Earth's geography. Each year, for instance, the Atlantic Ocean becomes slightly wider.29

There is an important point that needs to be stated here: Allah referred to the motion of mountains as drifting in a verse of the Qur'an. Today, modern scientists also use the term "continental drift" for this motion.30

Continental drift is something that could not have been observed at the time of the revelation of the Qur'an, though Allah clearly indicated how it was to be understood: "You see the mountains you reckoned to be solid" in the verse. Though, He further described this action in the following verse, stating that the mountains were going past like clouds. As has been indicated, attention is clearly drawn to the movement of the layer in which the mountains are fixed.

its only recently discovered by science, should have been revealed in the 7th century, when conceptions of the nature of the universe were based on superstition and myth. This is another very important proof that the Qur'an is the word of Allah.

5)THE MIRACLE OF IRON Iron is one of the elements highlighted in the Qur'an. In Surat al-Hadid, meaning Iron, we are informed:

And We also sent down iron in which there lies great force and which has many uses for mankind… (Qur'an, 57:25)
​

The word "anzalna," translated as "sent down" and used for iron in the verse, could be thought of having a metaphorical meaning to explain that iron has been given to benefit people. But, when we take into consideration the literal meaning of the word, which is, "being physically sent down from the sky," as in the case of rain and Sun rays, we realize that this verse implies a very significant scientific miracle. Because, modern astronomical findings have disclosed that the iron found in our world has come from giant stars in outer space.38 Not only the iron on earth, but also the iron in the entire Solar System, comes from outer space, since the temperature in the Sun is inadequate for the formation of iron. The sun has a surface temperature of 6,000 degrees Celsius, and a core temperature of approximately 20 million degrees. Iron can only be produced in much larger stars than the Sun, where the temperature reaches a few hundred million degrees. When the amount of iron exceeds a certain level in a star, the star can no longer accommodate it, and it eventually explodes in what is called a "nova" or a "supernova." These explosions make it possible for iron to be given off into space.39
One scientific source provides the following information on this subject:

There is also evidence for older supernova events: Enhanced levels of iron-60 in deep-sea sediments have been interpreted as indications that a supernova explosion occurred within 90 light-years of the sun about 5 million years ago. Iron-60 is a radioactive isotope of iron, formed in supernova explosions, which decays with a half life of 1.5 million years. An enhanced presence of this isotope in a geologic layer indicates the recent nucleosynthesis of elements nearby in space and their subsequent transport to the earth (perhaps as part of dust grains)

6)THE SPLITTING EARTH

[I swear] by Heaven which returns and the earth which splits. (Qur'an, 86:11-12)
​

The Arabic word "sadA" in the above verse means "cracking, splitting apart." Allah's swearing by the splitting of the Earth points to an important phenomenon, as do the other scientific miracles in the Qur'an. Scientists first descended to the depths of the seas and oceans in order to study mineral resources in 1945-1946. One of the most important facts to emerge from that research was the fissured structure of the Earth. The rock layer on the external surface of the Earth was split by large numbers of cracks (faults), tens of thousands of kilometres long, running from north to south and east to west. Scientists also realised that there was molten magma under the sea, at depths of 100-150 km.

​

 

[DeitySlayer]

Let's do a quick run-over why the iron miracle is very short of miraculous.

The Qur'an was written in the 7th century AD. In the 20th century, explorations in the Valley of Kings and other Egyptian sites uncovered numerous iron-wrought artefacts, such as knives and spearheads in the tombs of Egyptian kings. From carbon dating and inscriptions/paintings on the walls of the tombs, researchers were able to demonstrate that these iron tools dated back to roughly 3,000 BC. This is nearly 4 millenia, 40 centuries, 4 THOUSAND YEARS before the Qur'an was written.

The technology to smelt iron from hametite, the iron ore found in the ground, was not around until nearly two millenia later. The explanation; the Egyptians had forged the weaponry out of meteorite iron. This assumption was confirmed by chemical testing of the weapons, which demostrated a high nickel content consistent with meteoric, rather than smelted, iron.

The Egyptian heiroglyphs for iron are 'baa en pet'; meaning 'metal from (the) sky'.

So. Nearly 4,000 years before Allah 'revealed' this miracle in the Qur'an, it was known by the Egyptians that meteorites contained iron. This was also referenced by the Greeks, the Romans, the Sumerians, the Hittites and the Chinese.

Hardly miraculous information.

 

[Islam432]

Let's do a quick run-over why the iron miracle is very short of miraculous.

The Qur'an was written in the 7th century AD. In the 20th century, explorations in the Valley of Kings and other Egyptian sites uncovered numerous iron-wrought artefacts, such as knives and spearheads in the tombs of Egyptian kings. From carbon dating and inscriptions/paintings on the walls of the tombs, researchers were able to demonstrate that these iron tools dated back to roughly 3,000 BC. This is nearly 4 millenia, 40 centuries, 4 THOUSAND YEARS before the Qur'an was written.

The technology to smelt iron from hametite, the iron ore found in the ground, was not around until nearly two millenia later. The explanation; the Egyptians had forged the weaponry out of meteorite iron. This assumption was confirmed by chemical testing of the weapons, which demostrated a high nickel content consistent with meteoric, rather than smelted, iron.

The Egyptian heiroglyphs for iron are 'baa en pet'; meaning 'metal from (the) sky'.

So. Nearly 4,000 years before Allah 'revealed' this miracle in the Qur'an, it was known by the Egyptians that meteorites contained iron. This was also referenced by the Greeks, the Romans, the Sumerians, the Hittites and the Chinese.

Hardly miraculous information.

wtf..."it was known by the Egyptians that meteorites contained iron" show me the source

 

[Revoltingest]

I just avoid trying to convert hard headed atheists/scientists and stick with matters in the physical realm that concern Islam.

And we "hard headed atheists" appreciate you lack of effort.
In turn, I will not try to convert you to my faith....or lack thereof.

 

[Bismillah]

And we "hard headed atheists" appreciate you lack of effort.
In turn, I will not try to convert you to my faith....or lack thereof.

You keep to your side and i'll keep to mine

 

[DeitySlayer]

R. F. Tylecote, A History of Metallurgy (2nd edn, 1992), 3

Look around the Internet; there are many examples of spear tips, beads, etc. forged with meteoric iron way before 0 BCE. A quick search of 'Egpytian Meteoric Iron' will throw up multiple examples of this.

 

[Islam432]

R. F. Tylecote, A History of Metallurgy (2nd edn, 1992), 3

Look around the Internet; there are many examples of spear tips, beads, etc. forged with meteoric iron way before 0 BCE. A quick search of 'Egpytian Meteoric Iron' will throw up multiple examples of this.

Can you do me the favor by posting the link because nowhere on internet i could find
"it was known by the Egyptians that meteorites contained iron"

 

[Islam432]

Creation Of Man

1)Embryology and the Qur'an

He makes you in the wombs of your mothers in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness." (Quran 36:6) This statement is from Sura 39:6. We do not know when it was realized that human beings underwent development in the uterus (womb), but the first known illustration of a fetus in the uterus was drawn by Leonardo da Vinci in the 15th century. In the 2nd century A.D., Galen described the placenta and fetal membranes in his book "On The Formation of the Foetus." Consequently, doctors in the 7th century A.D. likely knew that the human embryo developed in the uterus. It is unlikely that they knew that it developed in stages, even though Aristotle had described the stages of development of the chick embryo in the 4th century B.C. The realization that the human embryo develops in stages was not discussed and illustrated until the 15th century.
After the microscope was discovered in the 17th century by Leeuwenhoek descriptions were made of the early stages of the chick embryo. The staging of human embryos was not described until the 20th century. Streeter (1941) developed the first system of staging which has now been replaced by a more accurate system proposed by O'Rahilly (1972).
"The three veils of darkness" may refer to: (1) the anterior abdominal wall; (2) the uterine wall; and (3) the amniochorionic membrane

Drawing of a sagittal section of a female's abdomen and pelvis showing a fetus in utero. The "veils of darkness" are: (1) the anterior abdominal wall; (2) the uterine wall, and (3) the amniochorionic membrane.

"Then We placed him as a drop in a place of rest." (Quran 23:13)
This statement is from Sura 23:13. The drop or nutfah has been interpreted as the sperm or spermatozoon, but a more meaningful interpretation would be the zygote which divides to form a blastocyst which is implanted in the uterus ("a place of rest"). This interpretation is supported by another verse in the Qur'an which states that "a human being is created from a mixed drop." The zygote forms by the union of a mixture of the sperm and the ovum ("The mixed drop").


"Then We made the drop into a leech-like structure." (Quran 23:14)
This statement is from Sura 23:14. The word "alaqah" refers to a leech or bloodsucker. This is an appropriate description of the human embryo from days 7-24 when it clings to the endometrium of the uterus, in the same way that a leech clings to the skin. Just as the leech derives blood from the host, the human embryo derives blood from the decidua or pregnant endometrium. It is remarkable how much the embryo of 23-24 days resembles a leech (Fig. 2). As there were no microscopes or lenses available in the 7th century, doctors would not have known that the human embryo had this leech-like appearance. In the early part of the fourth week, the embryo is just visible to the unaided eye because it is smaller than a kernel of wheat.




Top, a drawing of a 24 day-old human embryo. Note the leech-like appearance of the human embryo at this stage. Below, a drawing of a leech or bloodsucker

"Then of that leech-like structure, We made a chewed lump." (Quran 23:14)
This statement is also from Sura 23:14. The Arabic word "mudghah" means "chewed substance or chewed lump." Toward the end of the fourth week, the human embryo looks somewhat like a chewed lump of flesh (Fig. 3). The chewed appearance results from the somites which resemble teeth marks. The somites represent the beginnings or primordia of the vertebrae.

Top, a drawing of a 28 day-old human embryo showing several bead-like somites which resemble the teeth marks in the model shown to the left.
"Then We made out of the chewed lump, bones, and clothed the bones in flesh." (Quran 23:14)
This continuation of Sura 23:14 indicates that out of the chewed lump stage, bones and muscles form. This is in accordance with embryological development. First the bones form as cartilage models and then the muscles (flesh) develop around them from the somatic mesoderm.
"Then We developed out of it another creature." (Quran 23:14)
This next part of Sura 23:14 implies that the bones and muscles result in the formation of another creature. This may refer to the human-like embryo that forms by the end of the eighth week. At this stage it has distinctive human characteristics and possesses the primordia of all the internal and external organs and parts. After the eighth week, the human embryo is called a fetus. This may be the new creature to which the verse refers.

"And He gave you hearing and sight and feeling and understanding." (Quran 32:9)
This part of Sura 32:9 indicates that the special senses of hearing, seeing, and feeling develop in this order, which is true. The primordia of the internal ears appear before the beginning of the eyes, and the brain (the site of understanding) differentiates last.
"Then out of a piece of chewed flesh, partly formed and partly unformed." (Quran 22:5)
This part of Sura 22:5 seems to indicate that the embryo is composed of both differentiated and undifferentiated tissues. For example, when the cartilage bones are differentiated, the embryonic connective tissue or mesenchyme around them is undifferentiated. It later differentiates into the muscles and ligaments attached to the bones.

"And We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term." (Quran 22:5)
This next part of Sura 22:5 seems to imply that God determines which embryos will remain in the uterus until full term. It is well known that many embryos abort during the first month of development, and that only about 30% of zygotes that form, develop into fetuses that survive until birth. This verse has also been interpreted to mean that God determines whether the embryo will develop into a boy or girl.
The interpretation of the verses in the Qur'an referring to human development would not have been possible in the 7th century A.D., or even a hundred years ago. We can interpret them now because the science of modern Embryology affords us new understanding.

 

[DeitySlayer]

Can you do me the favor by posting the link because nowhere on internet i could find
"it was known by the Egyptians that meteorites contained iron"

History of ferrous metallurgy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Metal in Egypt
Wapedia - Wiki: History of ferrous metallurgy
Ancient Egyptian materials and ... - Google Books
JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

 

[tumbleweed41]

18 items of meteoritic iron were found in Tutankhamen's tomb.
(the Aztecs also used meteoritic iron.)

 

[YmirGF]

lol...and you claim you have read quran
i will repeat the verse again

Shape of earth
[079:030] He made the earth egg-shaped.

Why is it, do you think, that out of 33 English translations only 4 use the term egg-shaped? My guess is because the term doesn't really mean what you are saying it does. It is also of interest that the 4 that use the term egg-shaped are also all written since 1973, with 3 of them being in the last seven years. Curiously, no one prior to this thought to mention "egg shaped" which would seem to be a very serious omission.

Rashad Khalifa - Miracle of the Quran: Significance of the mysterious alphabets - Out of Print--Limited Availability. (1973)
Syed Vickar Ahamed - English Translation of the Message of The Quran (2005)
Shabbir Ahmed -The Qur'an As It Explains Itself (2003)
Ali Unal -The Qur-an with Annotated Interpretation in Modern English (2005)

In all honesty, I find it very difficult to accept that fully 29 other translators missed this little nugget. It seems more likely that the more recent variants are simply inserting the description to make it sound more meaningful than it really is. In my view that is the willful act of desperation by revisionists. Further to this, when you look at the rendering of the 29 they are saying almost the same thing, in slightly different ways. That leads me to believe that theirs IS the correct rendering and that the 4 rogues translations are translations with agendas.

 

[AxisMundi]

I don't remember the verse, but I recall that Qur'an the sun, moon and stars were in one of Earth's lower layer of atmosphere. Exactly, which layers that celestial bodies reside in, I don't remember; all I remember is that it was lower layer.

Not to mention that they revolved around the Earth according to the Quran.

 

[AxisMundi]

Creation Of Man

1)Embryology and the Qur'an

He makes you in the wombs of your mothers in stages, one after another, in three veils of darkness." (Quran 36:6) This statement is from Sura 39:6. We do not know when it was realized that human beings underwent development in the uterus (womb), but the first known illustration of a fetus in the uterus was drawn by Leonardo da Vinci in the 15th century. In the 2nd century A.D., Galen described the placenta and fetal membranes in his book "On The Formation of the Foetus." Consequently, doctors in the 7th century A.D. likely knew that the human embryo developed in the uterus. It is unlikely that they knew that it developed in stages, even though Aristotle had described the stages of development of the chick embryo in the 4th century B.C. The realization that the human embryo develops in stages was not discussed and illustrated until the 15th century.
After the microscope was discovered in the 17th century by Leeuwenhoek descriptions were made of the early stages of the chick embryo. The staging of human embryos was not described until the 20th century. Streeter (1941) developed the first system of staging which has now been replaced by a more accurate system proposed by O'Rahilly (1972).
"The three veils of darkness" may refer to: (1) the anterior abdominal wall; (2) the uterine wall; and (3) the amniochorionic membrane

Drawing of a sagittal section of a female's abdomen and pelvis showing a fetus in utero. The "veils of darkness" are: (1) the anterior abdominal wall; (2) the uterine wall, and (3) the amniochorionic membrane.

"Then We placed him as a drop in a place of rest." (Quran 23:13)
This statement is from Sura 23:13. The drop or nutfah has been interpreted as the sperm or spermatozoon, but a more meaningful interpretation would be the zygote which divides to form a blastocyst which is implanted in the uterus ("a place of rest"). This interpretation is supported by another verse in the Qur'an which states that "a human being is created from a mixed drop." The zygote forms by the union of a mixture of the sperm and the ovum ("The mixed drop").


"Then We made the drop into a leech-like structure." (Quran 23:14)
This statement is from Sura 23:14. The word "alaqah" refers to a leech or bloodsucker. This is an appropriate description of the human embryo from days 7-24 when it clings to the endometrium of the uterus, in the same way that a leech clings to the skin. Just as the leech derives blood from the host, the human embryo derives blood from the decidua or pregnant endometrium. It is remarkable how much the embryo of 23-24 days resembles a leech (Fig. 2). As there were no microscopes or lenses available in the 7th century, doctors would not have known that the human embryo had this leech-like appearance. In the early part of the fourth week, the embryo is just visible to the unaided eye because it is smaller than a kernel of wheat.




Top, a drawing of a 24 day-old human embryo. Note the leech-like appearance of the human embryo at this stage. Below, a drawing of a leech or bloodsucker

"Then of that leech-like structure, We made a chewed lump." (Quran 23:14)
This statement is also from Sura 23:14. The Arabic word "mudghah" means "chewed substance or chewed lump." Toward the end of the fourth week, the human embryo looks somewhat like a chewed lump of flesh (Fig. 3). The chewed appearance results from the somites which resemble teeth marks. The somites represent the beginnings or primordia of the vertebrae.

Top, a drawing of a 28 day-old human embryo showing several bead-like somites which resemble the teeth marks in the model shown to the left.
"Then We made out of the chewed lump, bones, and clothed the bones in flesh." (Quran 23:14)
This continuation of Sura 23:14 indicates that out of the chewed lump stage, bones and muscles form. This is in accordance with embryological development. First the bones form as cartilage models and then the muscles (flesh) develop around them from the somatic mesoderm.
"Then We developed out of it another creature." (Quran 23:14)
This next part of Sura 23:14 implies that the bones and muscles result in the formation of another creature. This may refer to the human-like embryo that forms by the end of the eighth week. At this stage it has distinctive human characteristics and possesses the primordia of all the internal and external organs and parts. After the eighth week, the human embryo is called a fetus. This may be the new creature to which the verse refers.

"And He gave you hearing and sight and feeling and understanding." (Quran 32:9)
This part of Sura 32:9 indicates that the special senses of hearing, seeing, and feeling develop in this order, which is true. The primordia of the internal ears appear before the beginning of the eyes, and the brain (the site of understanding) differentiates last.
"Then out of a piece of chewed flesh, partly formed and partly unformed." (Quran 22:5)
This part of Sura 22:5 seems to indicate that the embryo is composed of both differentiated and undifferentiated tissues. For example, when the cartilage bones are differentiated, the embryonic connective tissue or mesenchyme around them is undifferentiated. It later differentiates into the muscles and ligaments attached to the bones.

"And We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term." (Quran 22:5)
This next part of Sura 22:5 seems to imply that God determines which embryos will remain in the uterus until full term. It is well known that many embryos abort during the first month of development, and that only about 30% of zygotes that form, develop into fetuses that survive until birth. This verse has also been interpreted to mean that God determines whether the embryo will develop into a boy or girl.
The interpretation of the verses in the Qur'an referring to human development would not have been possible in the 7th century A.D., or even a hundred years ago. We can interpret them now because the science of modern Embryology affords us new understanding.

Again, common knowledge of the day does not equate to some "scientific miracle".

Not only did they have the simple examples of mothers giving birth, animal husbandry was quite common and quite advanced.

 

[YmirGF]

Not to mention that they revolved around the Earth according to the Quran.

That reminds of an renowned scholar at Al-Azhar fairly recently used the Qur'an to prove that the Earth was flat. Apparently he is getting a bit old... I couldn't find a reference to it off hand, but I did stumble over this gem.

http://www.youtube.com/v/wppjYDj9JUc

A great example of "superior" Islamic thinking, no doubt.