Rape Victims: Do They Have a Responsibility in Getting Themselve Raped?

[Sultan Of Swing]

You chose a male pronoun in dealing with my gender neutral scenario.
Would you say the same for a female who is raped?

Caution:
Sneakiness again.

Yes, I think anyone who gets drunk and wanders around alone in public is stupid, or made a stupid decision, if that's better.

Responsibility still lies with the aggressor.

 

[Sultan Of Swing]

Isn't he responsible for being drunk at first place, regardless of whom did the assault?

You are responsible for being drunk, you are not responsible for being assaulted.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Yes, that's unfortunate. It might have provided some little insight into the psychology of folks who think the victim can be held responsible.

Well, at least we can get an honest vote

 

[FearGod]

A shocking news over there, the man is kind of an animal but i think the woman was
responsible for giving them the chance by being intoxicated.


Pervert is jailed after admitting raping an 'extremely drunk' woman who he found lying unconscious in the street

• Peter Nicholson woke his victim while he was having sex with her on road
• Had taken one leg out of her trousers to rape her before stealing her phone
• Admitted carrying out attack on woman who was 'paralytically intoxicated'
• The 27-year-old was today jailed for six years at Grimbsy Crown Court

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-lying-unconscious-street.html#ixzz40QhgNCWU
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[FearGod]

You are responsible for being drunk, you are not responsible for being assaulted.

That is kind of sharing responsibility.

 

[LuisDantas]

"Asked for it" as in the eloquent "you deserved it because of your actions" or do you mean the literal meaning of the words?

Either.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Guys, responsibility here does not mean sharing it with the offender. The offender is 100% responsible, at least in rape cases. Responsibility here means having a part in the scenario that could be controlled.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Either.

But if it is the latter, it wouldn't be rape. Asking for something means wanting it, and here rape wouldn't be rape then

 

[Revoltingest]

Rape is not something we have serious problems with.....

Oh, your country does have serious problems with it.
It just might not be as well known as it should be.

But... I agree with 1&2 above! This is not fair!

It's always fair when you agree with me.

 

[Sunstone]

...but i think the woman was
responsible for giving them the chance by being intoxicated.

Precisely why, and in what sense, is she responsible, FearGod? It can be said that anyone who is the victim of any crime "gave someone a chance of victimizing them". After all, no perpetrator of a crime could commit his or her crime unless someone gave them a chance to do so. But does that mean all victims are also in some sense responsible for becoming victims? Or are only some victims responsible in some sense for becoming victims?

 

[LuisDantas]

Guys, responsibility here does not mean sharing it with the offender. The offender is 100% responsible, at least in rape cases. Responsibility here means having a part in the scenario that could be controlled.

I don't think I can accept or use such a definition of responsibility. Certainly not for rape.

 

[LuisDantas]

But if it is the latter, it wouldn't be rape. Asking for something means wanting it, and here rape wouldn't be rape then

That makes no sense for me. There is rough, consensual sex, and there is rape. There is no blurry line, no middle ground.

 

[Smart_Guy]

Oh, your country does have serious problems with it.
It just might not be as well known as it should be.

Sorry, I mean my community, not country. I can't judge the whole country really. It's big. I also say it according to my real life experience.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes, I think anyone who gets drunk and wanders around alone in public is stupid, or made a stupid decision, if that's better.
Responsibility still lies with the aggressor.

I agree, except that I'd avoid the word "stupid" in favor of the kinder & gentler "unfortunate".

 

[Smart_Guy]

That makes no sense for me. There is rough, consensual sex, and there is rape. There is no blurry line, no middle ground.

This is confusing... but thanks for the feedback

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry, I mean my community, not country. I can't judge the whole country really. It's big. I also say it according to my real life experience.

I notice a funny thing about gauging the frequency of rape.
Whether a victim will tell one depends so much upon their relationship.
Some people might never have a victim open up to them.
Others do hear of it.
I know victims, but what I don't know is how many other acquaintances are, but just haven't told me.
And statistics must be viewed with a jaundiced (skeptical) eye because definitions vary with time & political perspective.

 

[HonestJoe]

Precisely how "don't we ignore the actions of the victim"? By giving the killers lesser sentences? What exactly do you mean in concrete terms?

Why does it have to be anything concrete? In this context it’s really just being able to say “If you get involved in illegal drug dealing, you’re putting yourself at greater risk of violence or even murder” without someone responding that we shouldn’t say that because it’s blaming the victim. In the wider context, it’s striking a balance between preventing actual victim blaming and promoting reasonable safety messages.

 

[Sunstone]

Why does it have to be anything concrete? In this context it’s really just being able to say “If you get involved in illegal drug dealing, you’re putting yourself at greater risk of violence or even murder” without someone responding that we shouldn’t say that because it’s blaming the victim. In the wider context, it’s striking a balance between preventing actual victim blaming and promoting reasonable safety messages.

Do you think it's possible you might be equivocating on the word, "responsibility"?

 

[HonestJoe]

Do you think it's possible you might be equivocating on the word, "responsibility"?

No, I think I’m actually countering equivocation on the word “responsibility” (which is why I’m trying to avoid using it). The “responsibility” of an attacker for their crime is an entirely different concept from the “responsibility” of a victim who chose to put themselves in a position where the crime was significantly more likely and it is using the same word to refer to both concepts that leads to this issue in the first place.

There is no logical reason why the two aspects shouldn’t be addressed entirely differently. We should be able to address rape, assault or theft as threats that exist just like environmental threats that don’t involve the actions of other people and address how we can take reasonable steps to reduce our risk of suffering from them. We’d obviously also want to address how we can prevent rape, assault and thefts happening at all but that’s really an entirely different conversation, largely with an entirely different group of people.

 

[Sunstone]

No, I think I’m actually countering equivocation on the word “responsibility” (which is why I’m trying to avoid using it). The “responsibility” of an attacker for their crime is an entirely different concept from the “responsibility” of a victim who chose to put themselves in a position where the crime was significantly more likely and it is using the same word to refer to both concepts that leads to this issue in the first place.

There is no logical reason why the two aspects shouldn’t be addressed entirely differently. We should be able to address rape, assault or theft as threats that exist just like environmental threats that don’t involve the actions of other people and address how we can take reasonable steps to reduce our risk of suffering from them. We’d obviously also want to address how we can prevent rape, assault and thefts happening at all but that’s really an entirely different conversation, largely with an entirely different group of people.

Thanks for your response. We seem to be in substantial agreement here.