FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Like leaving the door of your house open for the thieves to come in.
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Rape Victims: Do They Have a Responsibility in Getting Themselve Raped?
- Thread starter Smart_Guy
- Start date
Like leaving the door of your house open for the thieves to come in.
Can you give some examples? What would amount to leaving an open door?
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
I don't feel a person should ever be blamed for the lack of restraint or tendency toward sociopathic behavior that someone else possesses.
That said, it is obviously possible to put yourself at greater risk of being attacked by people of all manner of mental/social instability.
For instance:
1. You simply carry a wallet. Danger of being mugged is just about as much as any other person carrying a wallet.
2. You are at the bar, buying rounds for everyone, flashing cash as you retrieve it from your wallet, and attracting all sorts of attention to yourself.
You are exposing yourself a lot more in case 2, and are putting yourself at much greater risk of being mugged than people who merely carry their wallet. However - it STILL DOES NOT excuse the person who ends up mugging you of the crime they committed in any way, shape or form. They should still be punished to the fullest extent that befits their crime.
A. The ideal is that people shouldn't have to worry about altering their behavior in order not to attract the attention of unsavory types.
B. The ideal is also that there simply wouldn't be horrible people who are willing to take on the role of those unsavory types.
We should not punish people for adhering to ideal "A", but most certainly should punish those not adhering to ideal "B".
That said, it is obviously possible to put yourself at greater risk of being attacked by people of all manner of mental/social instability.
For instance:
1. You simply carry a wallet. Danger of being mugged is just about as much as any other person carrying a wallet.
2. You are at the bar, buying rounds for everyone, flashing cash as you retrieve it from your wallet, and attracting all sorts of attention to yourself.
You are exposing yourself a lot more in case 2, and are putting yourself at much greater risk of being mugged than people who merely carry their wallet. However - it STILL DOES NOT excuse the person who ends up mugging you of the crime they committed in any way, shape or form. They should still be punished to the fullest extent that befits their crime.
A. The ideal is that people shouldn't have to worry about altering their behavior in order not to attract the attention of unsavory types.
B. The ideal is also that there simply wouldn't be horrible people who are willing to take on the role of those unsavory types.
We should not punish people for adhering to ideal "A", but most certainly should punish those not adhering to ideal "B".
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Case 1, a woman went out drunk from her house and she drove her car and killed a child.
Case 2, a woman went out while drunk at midnight wearing a sexy short and while walking alone
a drunk man saw her and said, wow you're so beautiful, then she smiled at him like crazy because
of the intoxication, he tries then to kiss her while she isn't aware of what's going on and then ended
in raping her.
So in case 1 she's responsible for killing a child, in case 2 both were drunk and are responsible
for being intoxicated.
Guys, for some reason I'm getting the impression that analyzing the rape from the victim's side or the advice given to the community as safety measurements for future reference and awareness, or any attempts of doing it for that matter, is viewed as blaming the victim and gets criticized harshly. This is really puzzling and doesn't make sense to me!
An enemy comes to kill you in the battle field while you're spacing out, you panic and shoot at them at random, they approach and give you serious injury, you manage to shoot again but with composure this time and manage to put them down. Advising you afterwards to stay focused, not panic and keep your composure would be considered blaming you according to that logic.
Analyzing things on the victim's side for any kind of crime is not blaming them. Giving awareness about it is not. It is not telling them they were at fault.
I'm oblivious by nature and I could be wrong, but I can't see the logic in that! Please explain it to me. Don't be an angry beaver and come at me with stupid bashing charges. Explain it to me like well mannered educated person so I can get what that logic is all about.
I don't think victims talking about it is a standard that decide whether rape is widely spread or a serious problem.
As for statistics, where I live, crimes and punishment of criminals were advertised on local TV the time I was growing up. I had been hearing about murder crimes all the time, but rape crimes was an extremely rare news to hear on TV, newspaper, older people in senior family gathering, but murder and armed robberies I hear of in more than a handful number of occasions. If rape was a serious problem in my community as you say, I'd know about it. At least for the times I grew up in.
That's my real life experience in it. What's yours?
An enemy comes to kill you in the battle field while you're spacing out, you panic and shoot at them at random, they approach and give you serious injury, you manage to shoot again but with composure this time and manage to put them down. Advising you afterwards to stay focused, not panic and keep your composure would be considered blaming you according to that logic.
Analyzing things on the victim's side for any kind of crime is not blaming them. Giving awareness about it is not. It is not telling them they were at fault.
I'm oblivious by nature and I could be wrong, but I can't see the logic in that! Please explain it to me. Don't be an angry beaver and come at me with stupid bashing charges. Explain it to me like well mannered educated person so I can get what that logic is all about.
I don't think victims talking about it is a standard that decide whether rape is widely spread or a serious problem.
As for statistics, where I live, crimes and punishment of criminals were advertised on local TV the time I was growing up. I had been hearing about murder crimes all the time, but rape crimes was an extremely rare news to hear on TV, newspaper, older people in senior family gathering, but murder and armed robberies I hear of in more than a handful number of occasions. If rape was a serious problem in my community as you say, I'd know about it. At least for the times I grew up in.
That's my real life experience in it. What's yours?
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Case 1: The fault was with the woman deciding to drive while intoxicated.
Case 2: The fault was with the man, who decided to force his sexual desires on someone who was unwilling. The fact that she was drunk changes nothing. She wasn't the one forcing herself on him. The one doing is the forcing is ALWAYS wrong.
Should women not be allowed to drink alcohol? Is that what you're implying?
Should women not be allowed to smile at men unless they are willing to have sex with them? Is that what you are implying?
Should women not be beautiful because it is too dangerous around men who can't control themselves? Is that what you are implying?
The person who took the step to FORCE THE OTHER PERSON to comply is always wrong. Period. Sex is not a necessity for personal survival. Sex with particularly beautiful/attractive women even less so. Learn to control yourself. The end.
I'm not talking about establishing a standard here.
Instead, I'm saying that we might have impressions which don't accurately reflect reality.
And crimes statistics can also mislead for various reasons.
It could be possible that marital rape is common, but not considered illegal.
I've no personal experience with rape.
I only know what I hear from others.
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
I don't believe that it is victim blaming to put the word out as to how women could be careful, given that rapists, of course, do exist. However, I will still support a woman who dressed how she wanted to, drank a little bit and happened to smile at a guy 100% over a mentally flawed imbecile of a man who decided in his tiny, inadequate brain that all of those factors indicated that he could force himself on her sexually, without consequences. Sort of a "sorry you got raped - but at least we know that guy doesn't play nice with others and so we'll now be removing him from society" kind of thing. The woman gets a free pass in my book - regardless how far it went. Again - self control. Get some.
Or even after "the last moment". It's happened before that the woman I was having sex with wanted to stop... so I stopped.
By the teeth of the gods! Do you mean to say you were not actually forced by her actions to rape her? Perhaps you can imagine my astonishment!
Understood. Sorry, I didn't mean to question your way of thinking.
Thank you for sharing this thought.
I see you say "drank a little bit". What do you think of drinking until getting drunk?
Just to be clear in something, the OP is about rape in general, not just female rape victims.
You may question my thinking all you wish, ya big silly!
It's because I'm VIP. No one is allowed to quote VIP.
Ah, I actually deleted the post then re-posted it because I edited it and didn't want it to be quoted before I finish the edit.
Hey, who are you calling big?
I thought I was prohibited from quoting it because the thread was being locked up or I was being banned.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
But he was drunk as well, IOW he wasn't aware that he was raping her and she wasn't aware that she has been
raped except after finishing with her.
I didn't say that she was a beautiful and i didn't say that he raped her because she smiled at him but
the point is that both were unaware of what they were doing because of the effect of alcohol.
Got it? or i have to repeat it multiple times.
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Buttercup
Veteran Member
Still rape. This isn't a complicated subject and I'm not sure why some people have such logistical problems with it.
Just because he was drunk doesn't mean his actions aren't still wrong.
If a drunk driver kills a person, they are guilty of a crime. Why would it be different in the case of rape?
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A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
Let's say they were drunk - this is generally accepted as being in a state of lower "inhibitions" - meaning that things that would inhibit you from undertaking certain behavior are either diminished or gone. So, whether it be a man forcing himself on a drunk woman, or a woman forcing herself on a drunk man - BOTH of those things are wrong, and only really point to an underlying problem with the behaviors that the person is willing to engage in regardless whether drunk or not. Simply put: if your inhibitions can't keep you from forcefully assaulting someone sexually when they are diminished, then that is probably an indication that those feelings or that desire or that behavior has been sitting dormant in you anyway, and was only awaiting an outlet or release. i.e. - you were a ticking time bomb.
And in all of this (pay attention here @FearGod) - YOU ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR OWN ACTIONS. Even if you were drunk. The woman who hits a child when driving while drunk is held accountable. So too would anyone who has raped. Afraid you'll rape someone while drunk? DON'T GET DRUNK. Afraid someone will accuse you of rape because you were both drunk? DON'T HAVE SEX WITH PEOPLE YOU DON'T TRUST WHILE DRUNK.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
Or perhaps just leaving the door open for the maid or driver or cat or the dog that are outside but would probably come inside but others are not welcome. Never. Not even an ant is welcome home. I decide what to invite not the circumstances.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
When you ask for it it is not raping but a sort of fantasy.
MARCELLO
Transitioning from male to female
I guess you have never ever been drunk. When you are drunk you never smile to the ones that you do not want to sleep with but curse,shout,spit ,bite and hit. And the drunk could be really violent.
I frankly advise you to comment on what you know. What you are saying is sth like me making suggestions about moon travel where I have never been.