Rape Victims: Do They Have a Responsibility in Getting Themselve Raped?

[A Vestigial Mote]

This is really just objecting to the premises.
Becoming inebriated is inherently dangerous because one loses control.

One can always arrange premises so that crimes against some people (men) are different
from crimes against other people (women), & that they should be dealt with differently.
But this is requires special pleading

I never said female rapists should be treated any differently than male rapists. Or are you referring to female drunks vs. male drunks?

In the end I agree that people should be warned about the potential dangers that behaviors they partake in could lead to. I warn my kids about strangers, for instance. But in the end, when things go south and someone has committed a crime, the crime stands on them, obviously. Admonishing the victim for "allowing it to happen" in some way or "egging it on" is mostly just fruitless and insensitive at that point. If they truly are a victim of such a crime, then they will likely avoid any situation that led to the crime - regardless how "dangerous" that situation is to be deemed by anyone else's standards.

 

[Revoltingest]

I never said female rapists should be treated any differently than male rapists. Or are you referring to female drunks vs. male drunks?

Please excuse me for being unclear about a digression into generalities.
I drifted off into criticizing the common perception that rape of women
fundamentally differs from other crimes.

In the end I agree that people should be warned about the potential dangers that behaviors they partake in could lead to. I warn my kids about strangers, for instance. But in the end, when things go south and someone has committed a crime, the crime stands on them, obviously.

Obviously.

Admonishing the victim for "allowing it to happen" in some way or "egging it on" is mostly just fruitless and insensitive at that point.

Is anyone here doing that?

If they truly are a victim of such a crime, then they will likely avoid any situation that led to the crime - regardless how "dangerous" that situation is to be deemed by anyone else's standards.

"Likely" is the key word, & addresses why fewer crimes happen than are possible.
But all of us who have been victims of crimes can sometimes see in retrospect that
we can improve how we conduct our affairs to minimize future risks.
I don't blame myself, or even find discomfort in seeing room for improvement.

 

[Buttercup]

but the responsibility of the woman that she was intoxicated and hence
giving a chance for the rapist to take an advantage of it(the situation).

Just want to point at a teeny tiny discrepancy we have here. I understand what you're trying to say in that the woman may have avoided the rape if she was sober. That's highly speculative, however. There are many women who are raped stone cold sober. There is never a circumstance a woman finds herself in that's bad enough to warrant rape.

 

[Revoltingest]

Just want to point at a teeny tiny discrepancy we have here. I understand what you're trying to say in that the woman may have avoided the rape if she was sober. That's highly speculative, however. There are many women who are raped stone cold sober. There is never a circumstance a woman finds herself in that's bad enough to warrant rape.

Given our full agreement on the last 2 sentences,
do you disbelieve that inebriation is a risk factor
for being assaulted, sexually & otherwise?

 

[Buttercup]

Given our full agreement on the last 2 sentences,
do you disbelieve that inebriation is a risk factor
for being assaulted, sexually & otherwise?

Not really.

 

[Revoltingest]

Not really.

Good...we'll both advise young'ns about the advantages of remaining sober.

 

[Buttercup]

Good...we'll both advise young'ns about the advantages of remaining sober.

I'm generally MUCH more concerned about the ride home being safe.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm generally MUCH more concerned about the ride home being safe.

Safety is indeed a multi-faceted thing.
And kids don't always take advice.
I still can't get #1 daughter to carry a weapon.

 

[FearGod]

Just want to point at a teeny tiny discrepancy we have here. I understand what you're trying to say in that the woman may have avoided the rape if she was sober. That's highly speculative, however. There are many women who are raped stone cold sober. There is never a circumstance a woman finds herself in that's bad enough to warrant rape.

I never said that all raped women were drunk, but some were.
Of course some women have been raped while sleeping or working and my point
wasn't about such situations.

It's true that the thief will try to enter your house but it's a good idea to lock your doors and windows
before sleeping.

 

[Buttercup]

I never said that all raped women were drunk, but some were.
Of course some women have been raped while sleeping or working and my point
wasn't about such situations.

It's true that the thief will try to enter your house but it's a good idea to lock your doors and windows
before sleeping.

We agree on all this.

 

[FearGod]

We agree on all this.

Thank you for your sincerity and honesty.

 

[Buttercup]

Safety is indeed a multi-faceted thing.
And kids don't always take advice.
I still can't get #1 daughter to carry a weapon.

I meant because of drinking. I was very strict and naggy about who was driving them home and still interrogate them today.

 

[Revoltingest]

I meant because of drinking. I was very strict and naggy about who was driving them home and still interrogate them today.

Good.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

The victim never deserves to get raped. The responsibility for rape taking place lies entirely with the person choosing to commit the rape.

 

[Ingledsva]

Why does it have to be anything concrete? In this context it’s really just being able to say “If you get involved in illegal drug dealing, you’re putting yourself at greater risk of violence or even murder” without someone responding that we shouldn’t say that because it’s blaming the victim. In the wider context, it’s striking a balance between preventing actual victim blaming and promoting reasonable safety messages.

Does this view cross over to males? Women always get hit with a "responsible by actions" clause.

Males also get fall down pass-out drunk. They also dress sexy. They also strip off their clothing. Thousands of men do these things on a daily bases.

If they start getting raped, - are you going to blame their use of alcohol (for the rape,) - which has been there all along for those males, - or the rapist?

As has already been said,

Female, or male, getting stupid and walking down an alley inebriated and nude, still gives no rights to a rapist.

*

 

[Revoltingest]

I saw this in the news.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/02/16/man-robbed-of-cash-pants-on-uic-campus/

UIC police said, shortly after 10 p.m. Monday, the victim was attacked by four men near 12th and Morgan streets. The men, dressed in all black, beat the victim and stole his money and his pants.
:
UIC students said it’s just another reminder about the importance of being vigilant.
“I think this could kind of happen anywhere in the city, so I think just to have good habits, and travel in groups, and not go out too late, I think that would be the best,” freshman Nina Tang said.

Does anyone think they just blamed the victim by giving out this advice?
Is the advice good or bad?

 

[Ingledsva]

Case 1, a woman went out drunk from her house and she drove her car and killed a child.
Case 2, a woman went out while drunk at midnight wearing a sexy short and while walking alone
a drunk man saw her and said, wow you're so beautiful, then she smiled at him like crazy because
of the intoxication, he tries then to kiss her while she isn't aware of what's going on and then ended
in raping her.

So in case 1 she's responsible for killing a child, in case 2 both were drunk and are responsible
for being intoxicated.

Faulty reasoning.

In case 1 she commits a crime by driving drunk - and this crime also resulted in a second crime of killing a child.

In case 2 she commits no crime. Only the rapist commits a crime.

*

 

[fantome profane]

I saw this in the news.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/02/16/man-robbed-of-cash-pants-on-uic-campus/

Does anyone think they just blamed the victim by giving out this advice?
Is the advice good or bad?

No, there is nothing wrong with giving safety advice. But the people who stole his pants are guilty. They are not 50% guilty because the man was out alone. They are not 80% guilty because the man decided to wear nice pants. They are guilty.

And there is nothing wrong with providing practical advice on how women can reduce the risk of being assaulted. But that does not shift the responsibility to the women making them responsible for being assaulted.

It should be noted that in the case of rape, sometimes judgement, condemnation, and victim blaming is delivered in the guise of "advice to women". But none of this makes the woman guilty (even partially guilty) of her own rape.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If there is no consent, there is no consent. Period. The rapist must make the decision to rape. Be it for sexual purposes or exerting power, the attacker has far more of a choice and decision that what the victim does.has, and it can't happen if the would-be-rapist doesn't rape.

 

[psychoslice]

In my mind, the surrounding circumstances never matter.

No person has the right to ever enter your body without you consciously allowing it to happen, even if you decide at the last second you don't want to have sex.

It's your body, you own it.

I want to hug you, I hope you don't mind.

Thank you your so sweet, I had a bad experience with a girl friend, she left me for a lesbian, I was very upset about the whole thing, I then never trusted women. I then started to experiment with the gay life, which also didn't turn out great, I have always been confused about sexual relationships, these day I stay away from the whole thing, I am much happier on my own.