"Reformed" Islam

[icehorse]

While in some nations Muslim women are under severe penalties that is not true for all. Very few American Muslim Women have any fear and in much of the world they don't. They still hold fast to Islam and Women seem to accept Islam faster than men do.

Look at where the majority of the world's Muslims live - extremely few live in the US.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Or have for the most part learned to repress their objections, at the very least.

Strangely most of my personal contacts with Muslims was while I was a Christian. During that era I often lived in the Mideast and North Africa. Most of the women I met drove cars, worked outside the home, A good many were college students etc.

I accepted Islam about 9 years ago. since then the few Muslims I now come in contact with are mostly rural farm owners that have family roots in ND dating back over 100 years. Indistinguishable from their non-Muslim neighbors

Can't honestly say I ever met any Muslim women that seemed to be repressed. Many if not all predominately Muslim nations have or have had female leaders, presidents, heads of State etc. All Muslim Women I met have been actually very domineering. When a Muslim Woman asks her husband to Jump he will ask how high and not come back down until she says to.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Look at where the majority of the world's Muslims live - extremely few live in the US.

True but I have lived quite a few years outside the US. Looking back probably more years outside the states than in them.

 

[icehorse]

Well Ayaan Hirsi Ali, victims of honor crimes, women forced to wear Burkas, and this woman would beg to differ with your personal experiences:

An open letter to Ben Affleck | Pakistan Today

 

[MD]

Islam is fracturing and splitting apart now. The war in the Middle East is basically a war between the different forms of Islam: ISIS (Sunni extremists) vs Iran/Iraq (Shi'a extremists) vs Kurds (secularists). Turkey and KSA fall in the Sunni camp, Assad fall in the Shi'a camp, etc. The victor of this war will steer the Islamic world, and I think the Sunni extremists have huge numbers so they will win through attrition. The majority of Pakistan are fundamentalists, and the population of Pakistan is 200 million. Egypt and most of North Africa is becoming more fundamentalist.

I think eventually the Shi'as will become secular over time, this is apparent in the growing secularization of urban Iran.

The more Islamic a society, the more repressive it is. This is a fact. Secularism and rejection of many Islamic principles is the only real solution, there can never be a true reformation.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Well Ayaan Hirsi Ali, victims of honor crimes, women forced to wear Burkas, and this woman would beg to differ with your personal experiences:

An open letter to Ben Affleck | Pakistan Today

I won't even visit Pakistan and I have a Grand Daughter living there. Been begging her to come to the States (She was born in Texas) but she says she loves Pakistan and refuses to leave.

 

[Estro Felino]

Nearly 2 billion people find it to be quite satisfactory.

That is one of the reasons why my country would never apply any civil law but the state law.
because my country can't approve of a law that discriminates women and men. It is against our constitution and our secular values system.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

This Muslim woman wrote a book: Allah, Liberty and Love

She says that:
- Her God is a loving, forgiving and clement God
- God wants people to love and people have the duty to love
- The violence in the Qur'an must be rejected

The thing is that many many Muslims are against this woman and her vision. But of course lots of Muslims support her.

This Muslim woman wrote a book: Allah, Liberty and Love

She says that:
- Her God is a loving, forgiving and clement God
- God wants people to love and people have the duty to love
- The violence in the Qur'an must be rejected

The thing is that many many Muslims are against this woman and her vision. But of course lots of Muslims support her.

Okay??
Theysaythat Islam is a religion of love??!?
Iask herto give mealoveofQuran
And to prove to us that the Quran teach a love of humanity
This sent her my words
And tell her
Lying::::::::

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Woodrow LI IB Ambassador
MuslimwomeninIslamiccountries that are notprotected by thelaw of that State
Her husband does not have the legal authority
If it wants torevolt
And you are here talking about particular cases
We are talking about the original teachings of the Koran
The teachings offamiliar
You don't knowanything about thetruth of Islam
Youhave usedwith youencouragement
Usedwiththe pious
Have you heard aboutreligionin the worldbelieveintaqiyya
Readanypious
How Muslims are recognized
In the West,Muslimsusetaqiyya

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

to--woodrol--this pious in islam --i thenk they used it with you ????
But they were the greatest people true to the faith, the religion of piety is not pious, God said: ((not the believers take disbelievers of believers and of doing so fattening in nothing but enjoined them best)) [Al-Imran: 28] but the unbelievers, not prevention with hypocrisy and lies
2-.
And the pious in Islam often is with the infidels, he said: {the enjoined them best} [Al-Imran, verse 28.]. Ibn jareer al-Tabari: "taqiyya mentioned by God in this verse is a pious Muslim and not others" [the interpretation of al-Tabari: 6/316 (achieving Shaker).].
Therefore some advances that pious after dearest God of Islam, said Mu'adh bin Jabal and mujahid: the pious in Islam by Muslims today, dearest God Muslims a fear of them learned about [see: tafseer Al-qurtubi: 4/57, Fath Al-Qadeer llshokani: 1/331.].
3-{However, enjoined them best} no: only in some countries and the fears of their wickedness they must beware of them not invisible phenomenon and intention [tafseer Ibn katheer, 1/371, and see in this sense books of interpretation when ETI: Imran, verse 28, and bees, no: 106.].
4-The pious when Sunnis temporary exception of all General, special circumstance the individual Muslim or Muslim, a category with that license Award (*)

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

to---Hay85 Believer in Freewill
The pious when Sunnis end with just the demise of reason of coercion and the like, and then it becomes to continue – proof – they weren't pious and fearful but his response and hypocritical at times above the word Islam and the State, shall terminate the pious – often – and become a rare individual case
Watch out-thisis very important
This methodfollowed byMuslims today
Usethe piousevenobtainjudgment
As thestage of theconstruction ofthe Islamic State
This is notmy wordthis is theQur'ancommentators
The spread of knowledge in these teachings
but his response and hypocritical at times above the word Islam and the State, shall terminate the pious – often – and become a rare individual case

 

[Shad]

As long as you are not Muslim you would be able to do so. It is only the use of Islamic Civil law that is specifically forbidden in some States ( about 10-20 states)

Civil laws are not actually codified by state law it is what the individual contract covers.


Until ISIS Jizyah has not been collected in over 100 years. Since ISIS is not a recognized state they have no authority to collect any taxes.

In most nations the Zakat paid by Muslims was higher than the Jizyah paid by non-Muslims. The Jizyah was only to be collected from the able bodied males of military age and they had the option of serving in the military instead. In today's "fair" world were the Non-Muslims get the same tax rates as Muslims, they all have to pay and can be drafted for military duty.

Out side of Saudi and Iran non-Muslims do build churches and at times the government helps fund them.

For example HERE

Empty claim. In fact during the Umayyad dynasty the Jizya was much higher and led to revolts in Khorāsān. The rate varied from community, place, time. demands of the state and ruler. Polytheists did not pay Jizya at points in time, rather they were converted or killed. There are also views that it should be paid by any non-Muslim be they polytheist or not. There is not enough proof to claim the rate was higher or lower in general since Jizya is specific in time, place and people.
Islam and Dhimmitude: Where Civilization Collide By Bat Yeʼor
Scriptural Polemics: The Qur'an and other religions By Mun'im Sirry
jizya (Islamic tax) -- Encyclopedia Britannica
Kharāj and Jizya

 

[Pastek]

But it is like I moved to the US, and I became an American citizen.
and I expected American judges to apply the civil law of my country about an inheritance of an American uncle of mine.
I could never demand something like that. This would be against the international law.

Most of time people can conciliate both. Muslims are living in europe since now 1 century.
They respect most of time the law of the country without big problems like other religious groups try to do so.

 

[Estro Felino]

Most of time people can conciliate both. Muslims are living in europe since now 1 century.
They respect most of time the law of the country without big problems like other religious groups try to do so.

most of the time?
well...In my country they respect it all the time.
and that doesn't prevent them from being Muslims

 

[Pastek]

Egypt and most of North Africa is becoming more fundamentalist.

I disagree concerning North africa.
First, Algeria lived troubling moments during the years of terrors in the 90' because of extremism so they don't want to see it back.
That's why they elected again Bouteflika even though he is very ill and old now (of course he is also a puppet of the regime) but algerians don't want to live again a trouble period and they are aware of the danger of terrorism as they were among the first victims of it.

Tunisia have not elected the Islamist party (Ennahda) but another party (Nida Tounes) :

Nidaa Tounes usually translated as "Call of Tunisia" is a secularist political party in Tunisia founded by the former prime minister Beji Caid el Sebsi after the post-revolution 2011 elections. It describes itself as a "modernist" party. The party won a plurality of seats in the October 2014 parliamentary election.

Nidaa Tounes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for Morroco they have made many progress those last years concerning many issues like the right of women, children etc even tough they need to do more.

 

[Pastek]

most of the time?
well...In my country they respect it all the time.
and that doesn't prevent them from being Muslims

I said most of them time because it's true that now there's a law against the burqa and some women wore it.
Also i know that in Uk some muslims are a little extremists and asked for sharia and things like that, so i can't make a generality concerning the respect of the Law as i don't know how it is going on in other countries

 

[Ultimatum]

We must remember that true Islam teaches that Muslims aren't to be ruled by non-Muslims: the Quran is very clear about this. We must also remember that Islam is a a political system as well as religious system. Therefore, not pushing for or living under Sharia Law is just as bad as adding Biblical verses to the Quran. They cannot coexist under the same nation.
And Shari Law is certainly not humane. (Depending on the view of course)

So what is the topic of Reformed Islam? Surely that defeats the point of true Islam..

 

[MD]

I disagree concerning North africa.
First, Algeria lived troubling moments during the years of terrors in the 90' because of extremism so they don't want to see it back.
That's why they elected again Bouteflika even though he is very ill and old now (of course he is also a puppet of the regime) but algerians don't want to live again a trouble period and they are aware of the danger of terrorism as they were among the first victims of it.

Tunisia have not elected the Islamist party (Ennahda) but another party (Nida Tounes) :

Nidaa Tounes usually translated as "Call of Tunisia" is a secularist political party in Tunisia founded by the former prime minister Beji Caid el Sebsi after the post-revolution 2011 elections. It describes itself as a "modernist" party. The party won a plurality of seats in the October 2014 parliamentary election.

Nidaa Tounes - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As for Morroco they have made many progress those last years concerning many issues like the right of women, children etc even tough they need to do more.

Libyan cities have declared allegiance to ISIS. The country is becoming more and more run by Islamic militants. Sinai declared allegiance to ISIS and the Brotherhood in Egypt has called for massive salafi demonstrations this Friday.

Granted the roots of these problems are political, it is still undeniable that fundamentalism is on the rise there.

 

[Pastek]

Libyan cities have declared allegiance to ISIS. The country is becoming more and more run by Islamic militants. Sinai declared allegiance to ISIS and the Brotherhood in Egypt has called for massive salafi demonstrations this Friday.

Granted the roots of these problems are political, it is still undeniable that fundamentalism is on the rise there.

I think that in Libya it's more complicated than that. This is not the point of view of all the libyan people.
That's why there's still many conflicts until now.

Concerning Egypt don't know what to think of all those things yet.

 

[Estro Felino]

We must remember that true Islam teaches that Muslims aren't to be ruled by non-Muslims: the Quran is very clear about this. We must also remember that Islam is a a political system as well as religious system. Therefore, not pushing for or living under Sharia Law is just as bad as adding Biblical verses to the Quran. They cannot coexist under the same nation.
And Shari Law is certainly not humane. (Depending on the view of course)

So what is the topic of Reformed Islam? Surely that defeats the point of true Islam..

Well...lots of Muslims admit that Islam is both a religion and a political ideology.
Honestly, I don't care. They are free to think whatever they want and to do whatever their religion tells them to do.
If they want to become European citizens, they must obey our laws, and they must accept the separation between religion and state.

because we are all equal before the law., Their religious beliefs are absolutely irrelevant, because all religions are equally insignificant before the law.
The ecclesiastical law of the Vatican (to give you an example), its trials and its court decisions, are worth less than zero before the law of Catholic countries.

so I don't understand why Islamic sharia should deserve a special treatment; if our laws forbid them to do what the sharia allows them to do, it is absolutely irrelevant.
It's not an excuse not to respect the law