Regarding Islamic terrorism, what does 'radicalized' mean?

[BrightShadow]

Very good. Finally you put a bit of effort. Progress.

There is an arrogant tone in the way you speak via your posts as if you think you know a lot.
My suggestion: Shake it off!

Maybe you read a lot but it seems it gave you a false sense of confidence!
The methodology you use to pass your thoughts is weird IMO.
Just say what is on you mind rather than asking a question here and a question there - to make your point. You are not really looking for answers! What you do is - you want people think and figure out what you are trying to say.
It is annoying!

 

[firedragon]

There is an arrogant tone in the way you speak via your posts as if you think you know a lot.
My suggestion: Shake it off!

Maybe you read a lot but it seems it gave you a false sense of confidence!
The methodology you use to pass your thoughts is weird IMO.
Just say what is on you mind rather than asking a question here and a question there - to make your point. You are not really looking for answers! What you do is - you want people think and figure out what you are trying to say.
It is annoying!

Nice. Thanks.

 

[BrightShadow]

If you try really hard, I'll bet you could be more vague.

Do what this kid did and learn learn learn or don't and remain blind.

 

[stevecanuck]

Do what this kid did and learn learn learn or don't and remain blind.

Use your own words or I won't respond again.

 

[Godobeyer]

I'm not watching that. Use your own words.

No problem .
the verse is talking about in condition of war .

Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

There is no single verse in Quran said ,it's ok to kill innocent because they non-Muslim or refuse accept Islam.

 

[Link]

The verse saying to fight people of the book put's the condition of Jaziya. This while the polytheists were not given this condition. The reason was because it didn't want to give them the opportunity to surrender and regroup and break the treaty again. If this condition was given to them, they probably would've taken it to regroup against the Muslims. The only polytheists to be spared would be those who submit. As for the people who were not at war with Muslims nor broke their treaties, it said to be true to them.

Of course, this gave the appearance that Mohammad (s) would kill all of them if he is victorious over Mecca. But the Sunnah and history says otherwise. At the point, he forgave them when they surrendered and accepted their apology in same way Yusuf (a) did with his brothers.

However, it's clear by the tone of the Surah, it's concern those fighting the Muslims. That is the people of the book fighting the Nabi (a) but it says they don't have the condition that must accept Islam to be spared. If they pay the Jaziya and acknowledge the government power of Mohammad (s), they need not be killed.

 

[stevecanuck]

No problem .
the verse is talking about in condition of war .

Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

That was pure avoidance. I was talking about the "strive upon earth [to cause] corruption" bit, and you know it. I'm talking about killing people in your religion of peace for the crime of committing 'fasad', which includes simply disbelieving in your religion of peace.

There is no single verse in Quran said ,it's ok to kill innocent because they non-Muslim or refuse accept Islam.

And that was a strawman. I never said Islam says to kill "innocent" people. It says to kill those who are NOT innocent, and that not being innocent can be defined as simply not believing in Islam.

 

[Godobeyer]

That was pure avoidance. I was talking about the "strive upon earth [to cause] corruption" bit, and you know it. I'm talking about killing people in your religion of peace for the crime of committing 'fasad', which includes simply disbelieving in your religion of peace.




And that was a strawman. I never said Islam says to kill "innocent" people. It says to kill those who are NOT innocent, and that not being innocent can be defined as simply not believing in Islam.

In war, in any war the result are victims and corruption,
Corruption not just moral, it's refer to destruction of homes and buildings, continue of verse. They kill, corruption.. Etc.

Corruption refer to Destroy buildings, farms, goods, in war.

Disbelief is not equal to corruption, not cause death.

 

[stevecanuck]

In war, in any war the result are victims and corruption,
Corruption not just moral, it's refer to destruction of homes and buildings, continue of verse. They kill, corruption.. Etc.

Corruption refer to Destroy buildings, farms, goods, in war.

Disbelief is not equal to corruption, not cause death.

You lie.

10:40 - There are those who believe in it [the Qur'an], and those who do not believe in it. And your Lord is most knowing of the corruptors. [This clearly states that disbelief alone suffices to label a person a corruptor.]

16:88 - Those that disbelieve and bar from the way of God -- they We shall give increase of chastisement upon chastisement, for that they were doing corruption.

 

[stevecanuck]

In war, in any war the result are victims and corruption,
Corruption not just moral, it's refer to destruction of homes and buildings, continue of verse. They kill, corruption.. Etc.

Corruption refer to Destroy buildings, farms, goods, in war.

Disbelief is not equal to corruption, not cause death.

Then there's this one:

7:142 - ... Moses said to his brother Aaron, "Take my place among my people, do right [by them], and do not follow the way of the corruptors."

The 'corruptors' in this verse refer to worshippers of the golden calf. No physical harm to anyone occured. Your lies are obvious.

 

[Godobeyer]

Then there's this one:

7:142 - ... Moses said to his brother Aaron, "Take my place among my people, do right [by them], and do not follow the way of the corruptors."

The 'corruptors' in this verse refer to worshippers of the golden calf. No physical harm to anyone occured. Your lies are obvious.

Don't following corruptors in normal situation.

When a war the enemy is enemy, enemy will corruption , so for example, what happening now, from terrorists IDF doing to Gaza people and building, they killing and destroy everything

 

[stevecanuck]

Don't following corruptors in normal situation.

When a war the enemy is enemy, enemy will corruption , so for example, what happening now, from terrorists IDF doing to Gaza people and building, they killing and destroy everything

You know, completely ignoring the points I make is NOT how you're supposed to debate and/or converse. Why should I go to the trouble of answering you if you just blow off my response and instead go off on another one of your avoidance tangents?

Goodbye until you learn that.

 

[Godobeyer]

You know, completely ignoring the points I make is NOT how you're supposed to debate and/or converse. Why should I go to the trouble of answering you if you just blow off my response and instead go off on another one of your avoidance tangents?

Goodbye until you learn that.

I tried my hard to explain, not debate,because it's about language Arabic meaning of word fasad/corruption.

Whatever since you believe that Islam don't permit to kill innocents, you are in the right way.

Good bye too

 

[Link]

I tried my hard to explain, not debate,because it's about language Arabic meaning of word fasad/corruption.

Whatever since you believe that Islam don't permit to kill innocents, you are in the right way.

Good bye too

He does not understand the contextual way of Arabic. For example, in Quran, it says you can fight those who Baqhi bey khayri haq, yet another verse shows disbelievers do that but in a more spiritual way. He mixes it all. The former context is not talking about the latter context. He does it with the word musfid which can be about corruption or can about causing real havoc on earth and disturbing the peace and security of the land. You have to identify it through context. There is a whole thread I tried to help in that regard.

 

[Godobeyer]

He does not understand the contextual way of Arabic. For example, in Quran, it says you can fight those who Baqhi bey khayri haq, yet another verse shows disbelievers do that but in a more spiritual way. He mixes it all. The former context is not talking about the latter context. He does it with the word musfid which can be about corruption or can about causing real havoc on earth and disturbing the peace and security of the land. You have to identify it through context. There is a whole thread I tried to help in that regard.

The enenmy in war doing corruption by killing and destruction of home..etc, fasad, that's verse meaning.
Not mean the disbelievers are corruptors so ,it's ok to kill them.

 

[stevecanuck]

The enenmy in war doing corruption by killing and destruction of home..etc, fasad, that's verse meaning.
Not mean the disbelievers are corruptors so ,it's ok to kill them.

I showed you three verses in which 'fasad' is tied directly to disbelief, and you don't have the courage to address them directly.

 

[Link]

The enenmy in war doing corruption by killing and destruction of home..etc, fasad, that's verse meaning.
Not mean the disbelievers are corruptors so ,it's ok to kill them.

Salam

It maybe "but rather" type meaning like you said but it can be "or" and include things like rape and human trafficking. Things that disturb the peace and security on earth.

 

[Godobeyer]

I showed you three verses in which 'fasad' is tied directly to disbelief, and you don't have the courage to address them directly.

I get it bro,sorry for that, despite these verse in concept of war, I misdunderstood you.

Anyway because we consider the Islam is pure and correct religion,so the other religions are corrupted .
So the missionaries of that religion, are corruptors.

There are misunderstood here bro, I thought you meant which that all disbelievers are corruptors so we should kill them all.

 

[Link]

I get it bro,sorry for that, despite these verse in concept of war, I misdunderstood you.

Anyway because we consider the Islam is pure and correct religion,so the other religions are corrupted .
So the missionaries of that religion, are corruptors.

There are misunderstood here bro, I thought you meant which that all disbelievers are corruptors so we should kill them all.

He says disbelief is a type of corruption. He does not know how to see words in their proper place. For example, "baghyakum ala unfsukum" "Your rebellion is only upon yourselves", that is a different type of rebellion without truth that Surah 42 allows to fight such people. It's the same with corruption. There is three types:

(1) Spiritual
(2) Direct havoc causing with regards to security on earth
(3) Indirect havoc causing with regards to security on earth.

I argued that killing is only for 2. While 1 and 3, are condemned, but it's not permissible to kill for those reasons.

Anyways, even if we take that 1 and 3 can be included, the Quran still put's conditions such as "if they incline to peace, you incline to it". So it would be understood that the corrupting in earth is still given context of other commands.

 

[Godobeyer]

He says disbelief is a type of corruption. He does not know how to see words in their proper place. For example, "baghyakum ala unfsukum" "Your rebellion is only upon yourselves", that is a different type of rebellion without truth that Surah 42 allows to fight such people. It's the same with corruption. There is three types:

(1) Spiritual
(2) Direct havoc causing with regards to security on earth
(3) Indirect havoc causing with regards to security on earth.

I argued that killing is only for 2. While 1 and 3, are condemned, but it's not permissible to kill for those reasons.

Anyways, even if we take that 1 and 3 can be included, the Quran still put's conditions such as "if they incline to peace, you incline to it". So it would be understood that the corrupting in earth is still given context of other commands.

Yes brother.
I know some misundeerstood about corruption , both morals and material word in Arabic.
disbelief is type of corruption,because Islam is only pure and correct, that's imply on others , too .
for exampe ,The christians also consider Islam and other religions are corruption and false,only christainity is true.so go on others religions too.