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Regarding Islamic terrorism, what does 'radicalized' mean?

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The west continues it's colonialist ways. In the past, it was under garb of "bringing civilization" and now it's under garb of human rights. They think they have the right to impose their view on others.

They also establish international rules then break it themselves. Israel is allowed to break international law all the time with no consequences.

If US and Israel go to war with Iran, who says Iran has to take the bombs on their people but can't blow up buildings in US through "terrorism". This is a wrong understanding.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Who is keeping track?
Anyone who kills an innocent and try to justify it via religion is a terrorist.

But you will face more havoc in the land and more innocents killed and not a place of Worship of the Abrahamic God will be allowed on earth, if there is no resistance:


وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا بَعْضُهُمْ أَوْلِيَاءُ بَعْضٍ ۚ إِلَّا تَفْعَلُوهُ تَكُنْ فِتْنَةٌ فِي الْأَرْضِ وَفَسَادٌ كَبِيرٌ Al-Anfaal : 73

And (as for) those who disbelieve, some of them are the guardians of others; if you will not do it, there will be in the land persecution and great mischief.

فَهَزَمُوهُمْ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ وَقَتَلَ دَاوُودُ جَالُوتَ وَآتَاهُ اللَّهُ الْمُلْكَ وَالْحِكْمَةَ وَعَلَّمَهُ مِمَّا يَشَاءُ ۗ وَلَوْلَا دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْضٍ لَفَسَدَتِ الْأَرْضُ وَلَٰكِنَّ اللَّهَ ذُو فَضْلٍ عَلَى الْعَالَمِينَ | Thus they routed them with Allah’s will, and David killed Goliath, and Allah gave him kingdom and wisdom and taught him whatever He liked. Were it not for Allah’s repelling the people by means of one another, the earth would surely have been corrupted/in state of disorder/in havoc but Allah is gracious to the world’s people. | Al-Baqara : 251

الَّذِينَ أُخْرِجُوا مِنْ دِيَارِهِمْ بِغَيْرِ حَقٍّ إِلَّا أَنْ يَقُولُوا رَبُّنَا اللَّهُ ۗ وَلَوْلَا دَفْعُ اللَّهِ النَّاسَ بَعْضَهُمْ بِبَعْضٍ لَهُدِّمَتْ صَوَامِعُ وَبِيَعٌ وَصَلَوَاتٌ وَمَسَاجِدُ يُذْكَرُ فِيهَا اسْمُ اللَّهِ كَثِيرًا ۗ وَلَيَنْصُرَنَّ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَنْصُرُهُ ۗ إِنَّ اللَّهَ لَقَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ | —those who were expelled from their homes unjustly, only because they said, ‘Allah is our Lord.’ Had not Allah repulsed the people from one another, ruin would have befallen the monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques in which Allah’s Name is much invoked. Allah will surely help those who help Him. Indeed Allah is all-strong, all-mighty. | Al-Hajj : 40

لَقَدْ أَرْسَلْنَا رُسُلَنَا بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَأَنْزَلْنَا مَعَهُمُ الْكِتَابَ وَالْمِيزَانَ لِيَقُومَ النَّاسُ بِالْقِسْطِ ۖ وَأَنْزَلْنَا الْحَدِيدَ فِيهِ بَأْسٌ شَدِيدٌ وَمَنَافِعُ لِلنَّاسِ وَلِيَعْلَمَ اللَّهُ مَنْ يَنْصُرُهُ وَرُسُلَهُ بِالْغَيْبِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ قَوِيٌّ عَزِيزٌ | Certainly We sent Our apostles with manifest proofs, and We sent down with them the Book and the Balance, so that mankind may maintain justice; and We sent down iron, in which there is great might and uses for mankind, and so that Allah may know those who help Him and His apostles [with faith] in the Unseen. Indeed Allah is all-strong, all-mighty. | Al-Hadid : 25


Don't forget the freemasons which are majority of Bani-Israel:

And they followed what the Shaitans chanted of sorcery in the reign of Sulaiman, and Sulaiman was not an unbeliever, but the Shaitans disbelieved, they taught men sorcery and that was sent down to the two Kings at Babel, Harut and Marut, yet these two taught no man until they had said, "Surely we are only a trial, therefore do not be a disbeliever." Even then men learned from these two, magic by which they might cause a separation between a man and his wife; and they cannot hurt with it any one except with Allah's permission, and they learned what harmed them and did not profit them, and certainly they know that he who bought it should have no share of good in the hereafter and evil was the price for which they sold their souls; had they but known this.


Go read up on key of Solomon. There is a hadith that Iblis attributed a book to Sulaiman (a) after he died, and I believe this "the key of Solomon" which is the basis of Tarot and freemasonry.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I've seen many stories about acts of Islamic terrorism in which the perpetrator is said to have been 'radicalized'. Okay, but what does that even mean?

To me, there are only two choices:

1). They have been enticed to commit murder by lies of what Islam demands of them, or
2). They have been enticed to commit murder by the truth of what Islam demands of them.

What do you think it means?

I've been reading the Qur'an for over two decades, so I know that the answer is number 2. I've quoted the murder-inducing verses many times, and will probably do so many more times.
Salam.
Allah "God" never order to harm innocents.

In Islam killing an innocent or suicide, both unforgivable sins.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Who is keeping track?
Anyone who kills an innocent and try to justify it via religion is a terrorist.
There are those who do actual research rather than make conjecture based on the TV.

Also, your definition of terrorism seems to link religion. Not as a whole, but it seems to.

Anyway, you could read Robert A Pape. The title of the book is something like "dying to win" and if I am mistaken do forgive. Don't worry. It's not some religious book so you don't have to dismiss it off the cover. So some do "keep track". Don't assume things, and try not to spread hatred with half or no information. Do the research.

Cheers.
 

BrightShadow

Active Member
There are those who do actual research rather than make conjecture based on the TV.

Just make you point in plain English.
What are you really saying:question:

Are you saying nobody is killing innocents and justifying it with their religion?
Are you saying my conclusion that - some folks use religion to justify their evil deeds - is based on guesswork and what I see on TV?
Are you saying killing innocent is okay?

Please clarify!

It seems you believe no one is doing it!

Also, your definition of terrorism seems to link religion. Not as a whole, but it seems to.
Where did I define terrorism? All I said is - anyone who randomly attacks and kills any innocent person and justify it via his religion is - one kind of terrorist! There are many kinds of terrorists. What makes you think I tried to define "terrorism" there?
I cannot call people who create terror by blowing up innocents - terrorists?

Listen to your own advice and don't try to assume things!


Anyway, you could read Robert A Pape. The title of the book is something like "dying to win" and if I am mistaken do forgive. Don't worry. It's not some religious book so you don't have to dismiss it off the cover. So some do "keep track". Don't assume things, and try not to spread hatred with half or no information. Do the research.
How am I spreading hate?
Are you in denial that some people are killing innocents and justifying it with their religion and thinking God is on their side?

Trust me when I say this - God is on neither side! ;)
No one going to heaven by killing innocents.
If you kill one innocent - it is like killing the entire humanity!
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Wrong!

And by you!
Shake off the commonalities!;)

What?

By quoting verses such as 9:29, I'm explaining where Islamic terrorism comes from. This mythiical 'allah' character is telling people to fight, kill, and die so that he'll let them into heaven, and GUESS WHAT???? Some actually believe that, and therefore try to obey. There is exactly zero mystery to it.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
True.

The trouble is that the definition of "guilty" is very wide ranging and includes disbelief in Allah/God.
Disbelief in Allah is not commun guilty , it's free choice ,it's probably consider personal guilty,because it's cause disbelievers hell eternity, No one should force anyone to believe in Allah,That's mentionned in Quran.

And say: “The truth is from your Lord, so anyone who wants (to believe) let him believe and anyone who wants (to disbelieve) let him disbelieve.” Indeed, We have prepared a fire for the wrongdoers that its canopy surrounds them.

Surah Al-Kahf - 29

 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
Disbelief in Allah is not commun guilty , it's free choice ,it's probably consider personal guilty,because it's cause disbelievers hell eternity, No one should force anyone to believe in Allah,That's mentionned in Quran.

No, it doesn't. That's not what 2:256 means.

Verse 9:29 says people must be forced to live under Islam, whether they convert or not.


And say: “The truth is from your Lord, so anyone who wants (to believe) let him believe and anyone who wants (to disbelieve) let him disbelieve.” Indeed, We have prepared a fire for the wrongdoers that its canopy surrounds them.

Surah Al-Kahf - 29


Disbelief comes under the definition of 'fasad', and 5:33 says those guilty of fasad should be killed.
 

BrightShadow

Active Member
his mythiical 'allah' character is telling people to fight, kill, and die so that he'll let them into heaven


You lied 3 times in one sentence! Smoke coming out of the the Lie detector machine.
1) You called Allah mythical,
2) You said Allah told people to fight, kill and die
3) You said Allah will let them in heaven for killing!
All of them are lies!

After two decades of reading and after countless times - it has been explained to you that you are taking verses out of context - you continue to beat the same drums!

Read the whole verse:
[Quran 9:29] “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

Fight only those non-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax and make them pay.
We all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. If you are not living in an Islamic state - no one can make you pay Jizya (state Tax). No one will be fighting you!
Are you living in an Islamic state and not paying your Taxes but enjoying all the benefits and protections from the Muslims? If not then why are you pointing this verse out?:rolleyes:

No one is using this verse to fight and kill. Only you think that way because of not knowing how to read in context.
 

stevecanuck

Well-Known Member
You lied 3 times in one sentence! Smoke coming out of the the Lie detector machine.
1) You called Allah mythical,
2) You said Allah told people to fight, kill and die
3) You said Allah will let them in heaven for killing!
All of them are lies!

Nope. Allah is pure myth.

As to the rest, it's all stated VERY clearly in 9:111.

After two decades of reading and after countless times - it has been explained to you that you are taking verses out of context - you continue to beat the same drums!

Read the whole verse:
[Quran 9:29] “Fight those who believe not in God nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by God and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth , (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.”

Fight only those non-Muslims who do not pay jizya – the state tax and make them pay.
We all know that jizya is applicable only in an Islamic state. If you are not living in an Islamic state - no one can make you pay Jizya (state Tax). No one will be fighting you!
Are you living in an Islamic state and not paying your Taxes but enjoying all the benefits and protections from the Muslims? If not then why are you pointing this verse out?:rolleyes:

No one is using this verse to fight and kill. Only you think that way because of not knowing how to read in context.

Again, nope. It's telling Muslims to fight and to subjugate. That process will create a Muslim state where none previously existed. For example, Muslim armies conquered there way across north Africa and into the Iberian peninsula within only 100 years of Mohamed's death - all the while creating new Muslim states.

Your lies can be swatted away like an annoying fruit fly.
 

firedragon

Veteran Member
Just make you point in plain English.
It is plain English. That's why you read it.

Are you saying nobody is killing innocents and justifying it with their religion?
Nope. That's a strawman.

Please clarify!
Well, I will give you statistics. Directly.

Calculating all wars in recorded in history, only 7% were motivated by religion. Reference: Encyclopedia of wars - Charles and Alan

Where did I define terrorism? All I said is - anyone who randomly attacks and kills any innocent person and justify it via his religion is - one kind of terrorist!
This is what you said - "Anyone who kills an innocent and try to justify it via religion is a terrorist."

And I did not accuse you of making a generalization. What I said was "Also, your definition of terrorism seems to link religion. Not as a whole, but it seems to. ". So you are doing another strawman.

How am I spreading hate?
By linking religion to violence. With no data. No research. Just conjecture.

Are you in denial that some people are killing innocents
Another strawman. What do you hope to gain by misrepresenting others? Zilch. This is only an Internet forum. Everyone is anonymous.

Yes. "Some" do a lot of bad things.

Trust me when I say this - God is on neither side! ;)
No one going to heaven by killing innocents.
If you kill one innocent - it is like killing the entire humanity!
So why tell me this? Are you giving me advice? Not to kill innocents?

Go read Robert A Pape. And the Encyclopedia of wars.

My whole response was in response to your main statement. Vis a vis, "who is keeping track". I just showed you that people do keep track. Just that you have not done the reading. Well, that's fine I suppose but I gave you a fantastic book based on the exact topic, written by an American expert, and you completely ignored it and got into attack mode. You should be focused on gaining knowledge that you didn't have. So read it. That's epistemic responsibility.

Cheers.
 
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Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
No, it doesn't. That's not what 2:256 means.

Verse 9:29 says people must be forced to live under Islam, whether they convert or not.




Disbelief comes under the definition of 'fasad', and 5:33 says those guilty of fasad should be killed.
Both out of context of Surah.
You have to understand before these verses, not just quote and paste.

 

BrightShadow

Active Member
It is plain English. That's why you read it.
Your first inquiry was and I quote - "How many people did this?"
Now you bring numbers from entire recorded history and point out 7%.
Ooh la la!
What point are you trying to make? The number is insignificant and should not be pointed out?
Talk about derailing the entire conversation. That is Red Herring and you are expert at it!;)

Even if one individual (in today's world is killing innocents and justifying it via religion then I will call him a "TeRrErIsT". I did not say that is the ONLY kind of terrorist out there!
When people say - God please forgive me and do something... it shows they know what they are doing is wrong but they are doing it anyway.
If they say - "God is Great" and then do it - then it is clear they think God is on their side.
My point was - they are wrong! God is not on their side!


This is what you said - "Anyone who kills an innocent and try to justify it via religion is a terrorist."

So, if I say - cow is a four legged animal - your understanding would be - all four legged animals are cows or cow is the only four legged animal!
That is ludicrous!


I gave you a fantastic book based on the exact topic, written by an American expert, and you completely ignored it
I wasn't talking about Suicide bombers. That book you mentioned earlier - is about those.
I merely said the people who use drones, rockets without realizing where it falls. They kill innocents and it is doubtful they feel bad about it. They think God is on their side. They say God is great before doing it.
They are Wrong!

Your interjection took place when I told the OP that he interprets similar to those folks - the west calls "terrorists".
Instead of correcting me (on topic) if I was wrong - you bring the history of motives behind all warfare and started throwing statistics and numbers and books.
Perfect definition of Red Herring!
 

BrightShadow

Active Member
Nope. Allah is pure myth.

As to the rest, it's all stated VERY clearly in 9:111.



Again, nope. It's telling Muslims to fight and to subjugate. That process will create a Muslim state where none previously existed. For example, Muslim armies conquered there way across north Africa and into the Iberian peninsula within only 100 years of Mohamed's death - all the while creating new Muslim states.

Your lies can be swatted away like an annoying fruit fly.

Read what others are posting and stop moving your goal post. Accept defeat when you are wrong!
Explanations are at your fingertips.
Learn the truth - it will set you free!
 
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