Regarding Islamic terrorism, what does 'radicalized' mean?

[Link]

What? I was referring to the so-called blockade.

Quran shows "if they incline to peace, you incline to it". We don't know how the polytheists cancelled the peace, and didn't want it from Quran alone. History and hadiths fill those details.

Quran doesn't contain the details of Salah despite how much it emphasizes on it.

 

[stevecanuck]

... the people they killed are oppressors ...

Screw that.

 

[Link]

Screw that.

They are probably the worse people on earth. The only people worse is the freemasons who masterminded and pushed them to do all this way back and continue to manipulate them.

 

[stevecanuck]

They are probably the worse people on earth. The only people worse is the freemasons who masterminded and pushed them to do all this way back and continue to manipulate them.

We are done. I will never reply to you again.

There is a cancer on earth, and it has nothing to do with the Jews.

 

[Link]

We are done. I will never reply to you again.

There is a cancer on earth, and it has nothing to do with the Jews.

Keep up with the bidding of your freemason masters dude, I don't care. Atheists live with their heads in the ground like ostriches while the freemasons wreak havoc on the world. It's like these people have nothing to do with history and politics, when with a little research the opposite is clearly seen.

 

[firedragon]

I am surprised to see no real Muslim came forward to respond to your inquiry.

This person is blocked by many.

 

[stevecanuck]

This person is blocked by many.

That’s probably true. There are a lot of people who don’t want to hear the truth about what the Qur’an says.

 

[BrightShadow]

Murdering a fellow Muslim is a grave sin. As to the rest of us, just read 9:29 and 9:111 and get back to me.

Btw, the order to kill is given dozens of times in the Qur'an, but I'm sure you know that.

I may not respond to each of your inquiry but only the ones I feel I should.
You interpret and think similar to the way the lost souls do. The lost souls - the ones the west calls the "terrorists"! All out of context, out of historical context, out of socio-cultural context!

Quran can be divided into two parts...
A) A book or rules
B) A historical document

If you are reading a part that is narrating a historical event - then you have to understand the historical context. You cannot inexpertly take out a verse from the historical narration and randomly try to apply to all future settings and scenarios. That is a no no!

It is better for you to concentrate on the verses that apply to all times and easy to understand. There are countless verses in the Quran that shows you the path to perfection, the path to glory, path to peace and harmony. Concentrate on those parts first!

The parts that you are concerned about - seek and find proper scholars who are learnt both historically and linguistically.

Apparently not. Most of the Qur'an that deals with what was happening on the ground in the time of Mohamed is given without historical context. The verses appear to be revealed as general truisms, applicable for all time, and independent of history.

Wrong!

Okay, let's try this: I think that verse 9:111 tells Muslims that in order to get into heaven, they must fight in the cause of Allah - kill and be killed.
How about if you read it and tell me what it 'really' means?

Apparently this verse was revealed during the initial recruitment period to preserve the teachings of the Quran. Try to understand the setting! It would be difficult for you sitting somewhere comfortably in this century, but try, I give you an example you may be able to relate to.....

Go to a biker's bar and declare drinking alcohol is a sin, riding a bike is a sin, wearing tattoo is a sin and see what happens to you.
Afraid to go alone? Try and find some recruits to go with you.
You will fail!

Being a prophet is not an easy job! Especially when you decide to not use miracles to convince people. Jesus used miracles. It kind of backfired! People started believing he was son of god!

That leaves you with two choices regarding the massacre of October 7:

1. The murderers of 1200 people weren't 'real Muslims', or
2. Those 1200 people weren't innocent.

Which is it?

There is a third choice! You could be a Muslim by faith and yet fooled into believing you are doing the right thing out of desparation or via misguidance.
Killing innocent is wrong but they could justify it within their head by misguidance by their leaders. Sometimes - peer pressure makes people do the wrong thing as well.
A couple of bad apples could be responsible to make the entire basket rot.

When you are looking for a solution to your everyday problem - you use whatever tool you find and worry about consequences later!
For us (me and you) sitting far away from all that - it is easy to say - they were wrong!
And of course they were wrong!

 

[BrightShadow]

This person is blocked by many.

I see!

 

[FredVB]

I read the Qur'an, I had been challenged to do so, and what I read impressed me as being quite repetitive, though sincerely urgent in compelling the reader to submit and follow Allah through what the Qur'an taught. There was one prophecy offered in it, which is taken as fulfilled. Having read all the Bible, for the sake of comparison, I perceived the Qur'an was left wanting. I can see how believers would follow it though.

 

[Link]

what I read impressed me as being quite repetitive

This is true. In fact, most of Quran is paraphrasing itself again, but it brings different points with those repeated paraphrased facts. This has multiple purpose:

(1) Understand the main emphasis which is to follow God through the guidance he established (not just Quran, but I get what you are saying).
(2) Interpret itself by the many paraphrases, leaving no way something can remain ambiguous. For example, the prayer of Musa (a) with regards to Haroun (a). Each one can be interpreted wrong, but together, the paraphrases of the same prayer, show the proper meaning.
(3) Since it's seeking to prove to it's reader concepts, that are multi-dimensional and holistic approach, it brings the same concepts again, with different arguments or parts of the argument for it and responding to different arguments against it.
(4) The impression it's suppose to cause, is to cause someone to fear God and hope in his mercy. The whole advice of Quran can be summarized in that respect to be that. But it does so poetically and it's repetition is not done in boring way, but in a very calculative way.
(5) Humans when they repeat over and over again, are going to sound boring, but God does it in a way that humans can't, in a way that is beautiful and majestic, and it's the core of the Quran and also with uniqueness in the Surahs it repeats the same things. They all have a proper place. Surah Tawhid/Ikhlas is beautiful put at the end, by how much Quran has repeated unity of God. Without that, it would not be as beautiful. It's beautiful in itself, but more so with the place it takes in the Quran. The small chapters at the end summarize things that were repeated and brought with different facts. This makes the final series of small chapters ultra eloquent. They also bring a unique impression in themselves.
(6) Just as songs repeat the same thing and incept, the Quran is the cure to the music and inceptions of Satan, and counters it, and it's musical. Music usually repeats things, and Quran is perfectly musically, that it does not need music and sounds better then songs with music.
(7) It breaks the dark magic and restores the human to dignity with these repetitions.
(8) It creates theme gate ways of one Surah to another. This is a very important feature it has to keep interpretation explained by itself.

 

[stevecanuck]

I may not respond to each of your inquiry but only the ones I feel I should.
You interpret and think similar to the way the lost souls do. The lost souls - the ones the west calls the "terrorists"! All out of context, out of historical context, out of socio-cultural context!

Quran can be divided into two parts...
A) A book or rules
B) A historical document

If you are reading a part that is narrating a historical event - then you have to understand the historical context. You cannot inexpertly take out a verse from the historical narration and randomly try to apply to all future settings and scenarios. That is a no no!

It is better for you to concentrate on the verses that apply to all times and easy to understand. There are countless verses in the Quran that shows you the path to perfection, the path to glory, path to peace and harmony. Concentrate on those parts first!

The parts that you are concerned about - seek and find proper scholars who are learnt both historically and linguistically.




Wrong!





Apparently this verse was revealed during the initial recruitment period to preserve the teachings of the Quran. Try to understand the setting! It would be difficult for you sitting somewhere comfortably in this century, but try, I give you an example you may be able to relate to.....

Go to a biker's bar and declare drinking alcohol is a sin, riding a bike is a sin, wearing tattoo is a sin and see what happens to you.
Afraid to go alone? Try and find some recruits to go with you.
You will fail!

Being a prophet is not an easy job! Especially when you decide to not use miracles to convince people. Jesus used miracles. It kind of backfired! People started believing he was son of god!




There is a third choice! You could be a Muslim by faith and yet fooled into believing you are doing the right thing out of desparation or via misguidance.
Killing innocent is wrong but they could justify it within their head by misguidance by their leaders. Sometimes - peer pressure makes people do the wrong thing as well.
A couple of bad apples could be responsible to make the entire basket rot.

When you are looking for a solution to your everyday problem - you use whatever tool you find and worry about consequences later!
For us (me and you) sitting far away from all that - it is easy to say - they were wrong!
And of course they were wrong!

Nice try.

Verse 9:29 was undoubtedly 'revealed' in a historical context, which most scholars agree was Mohamed's attempt to engage the Byzantines. But, the Qur'an (ie: Allah) doesn't say that, so clearly it doesn't matter. It reads as a command for all time, and that's how it's taken by those we call terrorists.

 

[BrightShadow]

It reads as a command for all time,

Wrong!

and that's how it's taken by those we call terrorists.

And by you!
Shake off the commonalities!

 

[Link]

Shake off the commonalities!

Which "terrorists" interpret it the way he does?

It's convenient to strawman position of militants.

 

[BrightShadow]

Which "terrorists" interpret it the way he does?

The ones who kill innocent people and try to justify it via religion.

It's convenient to strawman position of militants.

You need more words to explain what you mean here.

As soon as a so-called militant causes terror and kills innocent people - he transforms himself into a "terrorist"! IMO

We don't have honorable warfare these days to settle a dispute.
What we have is - one side pressing buttons and dropping bombs and the other side sending rockets and drones with explosives. As soon either side kills an innocent person - they are terrorists. Neither side will be forgiven regardless of their cause. IMO

It was different 1400 years ago, even if you attack first (whether it is meant to be a defensive move) - the other side had an option to put down their weapon and when they don't - you could justify the fight. But in todays world drones, rockets and bombs are used. You cannot justify the death of innocents because you did not give them the option to lay down their weapons. If you are killing fleeing people, if you are killing women and children then how do you justify it to God?

 

[Link]

The ones who kill innocent people and try to justify it via religion.

I think you are thinking of Hezbollah and Hamas. But none of them understand the verse like he does. They have a different working paradigm.

 

[Link]

You cannot justify the death of innocents because you did not give them the option to lay down their weapons.

Rasool's city was under embargo and began his operations on merchants coming from and towards Mecca. How does your theory go with that?

 

[Link]

Neither side will be forgiven regardless of their cause. IMO

I think this is unrealistic. Quran says to repel an evil by the like of it. That's how balance is kept. Without reaction, the tyrants will take full advantage as was the case with the west with the natives.

 

[firedragon]

The ones who kill innocent people and try to justify it via religion.

How many people did this?

 

[BrightShadow]

I think this is unrealistic. Quran says to repel an evil by the like of it. That's how balance is kept. Without reaction, the tyrants will take full advantage as was the case with the west with the natives.

Why did Moses lead the Israelites out of Egypt?
Staying and killing innocents is not the way. God can punish in God's own time!