Religion and homosexuality

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I stand by my answer. While it's possible some tithing funds were used for things such as satellite time, that is hardly the same as donating money to prevent her from getting married. For one thing, I didn't prevent anything - she did get married. In fact, we celebrated it and used it as a teaching opportunity! For another, the principle way members donated resources was by giving money to Protect Marriage - an organization in existence before the LDS church became involved. I did not contribute. I also skipped church and/or walked out when the discussion turned to Prop 8. I also spoke to LDS friends about my POV. So, you see, I did not donate money that prevented her from getting married.

You moved the goalposts - Auto's question addressed intent, not efficacy.

AFAICT, the LDS Church has used its voice and its resources to fight same-sex marriage as long as the same-sex marriage issue has existed. Its stance on the issue is documented at least as far back as the late '90s. If you're going to voluntarily donate money to an organization knowing that at least a portion of it will go to fighting against same-sex marriage, then I think you're culpable for that to the extent that you enabled it.

I don't know whether you think that there are other benefits of donating to the Church that outweight this harm, but it is harm and it is part of the equation.

You guys have a funny way of showing support to those who are trying to help you. It's like asking whether you gave money that killed some child in Iraq.

Sure, it would be like that... if the LDS Church was in the habit of imprisoning people for not tithing.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I stand by my answer. While it's possible some tithing funds were used for things such as satellite time, that is hardly the same as donating money to prevent her from getting married. For one thing, I didn't prevent anything - she did get married. In fact, we celebrated it and used it as a teaching opportunity! For another, the principle way members donated resources was by giving money to Protect Marriage - an organization in existence before the LDS church became involved. I did not contribute. I also skipped church and/or walked out when the discussion turned to Prop 8. I also spoke to LDS friends about my POV. So, you see, I did not donate money that prevented her from getting married.

You guys have a funny way of showing support to those who are trying to help you. It's like asking whether you gave money that killed some child in Iraq.

You have to admit though
as a whole, the LDS church is homophobic.

 

[Apex]

You have to admit though
as a whole, the LDS church is homophobic.

And this contributes what to the discussion?

 

[Autodidact]

So people should not be allowed to move somewhere they find more accepting?

I take it you have no problem with millions of illegal Mexican immigrants moving here because they find it more accepting?

 

[Autodidact]

Homosexuals spend far too much time looking at outward appearences...

It would be nice if you would stop slandering us. After all, it is a sin.

And if this guy has a "husband, " then what is he.............?

Another husband. Duh.

 

[Autodidact]

What they said they were and what they were are entirely two different things. When I was a kid, we already heard the stories concerning Gestapo and the SS atrocities. They were sadistic to say the very least. And the hint that homosexuality was practised among at some of those in athority was not a surprise...

I'm not talking about what they said, but about what they did. They locked up millions of gay people and killed them. Fact. Trying to associate them with homosexuality is simple slander. As I said, the Nazis were on your side--the anti-gay side. Live with it.

I am not anti people. I am against the promotion of sin to the level of an ideal.

Then stop doing it. By spreading lies and hatred, you are sinning. You. That's whose sin you need to be worried about--your own. I am not bound by your ideas of sin, and you are not bound by mine. There is only one person in the world whose sin you need to worry about, and that is you. I will decide for myself what I think is sin, and then it's my problem to not practice it. And I will grant you the same right. Deal?

 

[Haddin]

The thing is what is the point of Homosexual marriages or relations? (No offence)

 

[Storm]

The thing is what is the point of Homosexual marriages or relations? (No offence)

The same as for hetero: love and commitment. And, in the case of marriage, rights and responsibilities.

 

[Kerr]

The thing is what is the point of Homosexual marriages or relations? (No offence)

Why does it matter? Even if you don´t see a point to it, there are those who do. Are you saying you have the right to dictate how they live their lives?

 

[Autodidact]

I stand by my answer. While it's possible some tithing funds were used for things such as satellite time, that is hardly the same as donating money to prevent her from getting married.

It's not possible, it's actual, as I'm sure you know. And it's not some funds, it's millions of dollars, as has been amply reported. And the purpose of the funds was to prevent her and all others in her situation from ever being able to get married.

For one thing, I didn't prevent anything - she did get married.

O.K., your financial efforts failed. That doesn't mean they didn't exist.

In fact, we celebrated it and used it as a teaching opportunity!

And you also donated money to try to prevent it from happening. If this is against your beliefs, you might want to do something about that.

For another, the principle way members donated resources was by giving money to Protect Marriage - an organization in existence before the LDS church became involved. I did not contribute. I also skipped church and/or walked out when the discussion turned to Prop 8. I also spoke to LDS friends about my POV. So, you see, I did not donate money that prevented her from getting married.

All great! Meanwhile, your church took your money and used it to act against your beliefs. Drag.

You guys have a funny way of showing support to those who are trying to help you. It's like asking whether you gave money that killed some child in Iraq.

But I did! I hate it, but the fact is that I personally gave money that was used for an unjustified, unjust, stupid, barbaric, counter-productive war. Of course, I tried hard to prevent that, but it wasn't possible. The difference of course, is that if I don't pay taxes, I go to jail. You can stop tithing any time you like.

 

[Autodidact]

The thing is what is the point of Homosexual marriages or relations? (No offence)

Are you familiar with the idea of love? Have you ever encountered it?

 

[Autodidact]

Some other political issues the LDS church has been on the wrong side of:
Equal rights for women.
Racial desegregation, especially inter-racial marriage.

Hmm...I begin to discern a theme.

 

[Mr Cheese]

And this contributes what to the discussion?

um, the topic is about religion and homosexuality

and the OP while not singling any particular religion out...
focuses a lot on the fact that the LDS church is homophobic.

:sarcastic As such then, I am merely continuing the OP

As such the side conversation was about the LDS chruch's support to not allow same sex couple marriage...the idea that tithing was a contribution was mentioned. As such it was flatly denied that the tither themselves actively contributed to monetary collections that ultimatly were used to help quash same sex marriage.

Which I accept, as I have no way of knowing.

Thus, I feel it is fair to conclude that, whther a persons tithes were used or NOT, their church, as a whole, the organisation itself.... ARE HOMOPHOBIC

It is my assertion that, individual LDS members may not be HOMOPHOBIC, but like Catholics, the LDS church as a whole IS ANTI SAME SEX COUPLES and as SUCH is HOMOPHOBIC for various reasons....

:sarcastic That help?

 

[Smoke]

What they said they were and what they were are entirely two different things. When I was a kid, we already heard the stories concerning Gestapo and the SS atrocities. They were sadistic to say the very least. And the hint that homosexuality was practised among at some of those in athority was not a surprise...

Yeah? Who hinted at that?

Eric Roehm was an early head of the SA, and he was gay. He was executed in 1934, after persecution of gay men had been stepped up. The Nazis imprisoned gay men, tortured them, and conducted "medical experiments" on them. But the self-proclaimed followers of Christ are not ashamed to spread such filth as you spread. Is that what your Jesus teaches you? That no lie is too shameful to pass your lips, as long as it serves to slander those you hate?

 

[Smoke]

The thing is what is the point of Homosexual marriages or relations? (No offence)

What is the point of any marriage or relationship?

 

[LittleNipper]

Sources?


He's happy...why can't you just leave it at that.

It is called math. He's happy. This thread isn't about anyone's happiness. It is about religion and homosexuality... It is hoped that he will remain happy, and that future aging will not damper his exuberation with the yoke he has placed around his neck.

 

[Autodidact]

It is called math. He's happy. This thread isn't about anyone's happiness. It is about religion and homosexuality... It is hoped that he will remain happy, and that future aging will not damper his exuberation with the yoke he has placed around his neck.

The yoke for me, an actual homosexual, would be to try to live a lie or conform to LittleNipper's odd purity taboos. Being true to myself and living in love is liberating.

 

[LittleNipper]

How many homosexuals have you killed? According to your bible you are to stone them to death. Unless of course you don't take that part literally.

That was a civic law established for the nation of the Hebrews. I reside in the United States and live in this present Age of Grace. I do not stone those who disregard the Bible. However, I will not keep quiet in the face of tyranny. I lift my light for all who desire the light of truth.

 

[Kerr]

It is called math.

Math is not everything. Everyone of those people will have to have a standard in order to be able to live, so to speak. They have to be able to eat, drink, sleep, and so on. Squeezing everyone together like that is therefor a very bad idea.

He's happy. This thread isn't about anyone's happiness. It is about religion and homosexuality... It is hoped that he will remain happy, and that future aging will not damper his exuberation with the yoke he has placed around his neck.

Errrr... he doesn´t have a yoke. The yoke for him would be to live with a woman.

 

[Kerr]

That was a civic law established for the nation of the Hebrews. I reside in the United States and live in this present Age of Grace. I do not stone those who disregard the Bible. However, I will not keep quiet in the face of tyranny. I lift my light for all who desire the light of truth.

No, we know you don´t keep quiet in the fact of tyranny. Your applauds sound far too much to get missed.