Religion and Socialism

[Sand Dancer]

So with the history of Germany, Italy, Russia, China, Cambodia etc. you feel inclined to trust that governments will always want what is best for their people?

No, but it depends on the situation and the political make up of the country. Why not learn from the best countries to live in the world? We certainly could stand to learn from them.

 

[Truth in love]

That doesn't change my point:

Why are we the only country where school shootings are so common? Is it right that school children die just so gun fetishists can compensate for their small peepees?

Your point is like a football stat.
The right to bare arms is a human right.

your projection issues are not relevant to the law or human rights

 

[Truth in love]

False equivalency and straw man. Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy were far right. And China and the Soviet Union were undemocratic and communist.

Nazi “National Socialist” quite accurate. Well at least for anyone who studied history.

 

[Truth in love]

No, but it depends on the situation and the political make up of the country. Why not learn from the best countries to live in the world? We certainly could stand to learn from them.

Im all for learning. I study people, history and political theory.


Socialism never ends well for the people. (See Venezuela for a recent example).


Freedom, hard work, strong ethics etc are vital.

 

[idea]

Im all for learning. I study people, history and political theory.


Socialism never ends well for the people. (See Venezuela for a recent example).


Freedom, hard work, strong ethics etc are vital.

Anarchy isn't the best either. "By the people for the people" - if religious organizations followed a democratic system, instead of self-proclaimed dictatorships, with leaders chosen based on their good deeds, rather than words....

 

[Father Heathen]

Your point is like a football stat.

In other words the lost lives of innocent victims is just a number to you?

The right to bare arms is a human right.

A nuclear warhead is an arm, but you wouldn't want your neighbor having one. That's an extreme example but it does illustrate that there is a limit. We can't have rocket propelled grenades or fully automatic machine guns. Is that restriction a human rights violation?

your projection issues are not relevant to the law or human rights

Children getting slaughtered in schools has nothing to do with our laws or human rights?

 

[Father Heathen]

Im all for learning. I study people, history and political theory.


Socialism never ends well for the people. (See Venezuela for a recent example).


Freedom, hard work, strong ethics etc are vital.

More false equivalency and straw men. Nobody is pointing to Venezuela's system as a desired model. How about taking a look at Scandinavian countries? Nobody is apposing freedom, hard work, and strong ethics. BTW, hard work and strong ethics aren't closing the growing gap between the rich and the poor. Some people work two jobs just to get by. The rungs on the economic ladder are broken.

Speaking of freedom, who has a history of opposing bodily autonomy, gay marriage, cannabis legalization, flag burning, etc.? Who's been trying to ban books lately?

 

[F1fan]

I think they work in conjunction. I believe there is a hybrid of capitalism and socialism... someone called it capitalism with a heart - which is compatible with what Jesus shared.

This is what America has. The degree of heart is what the political parties discuss. Oddly it is the Christian conservatives who express views with vastly less heart. They certainly ignore what jesus said on the mount.

 

[Father Heathen]

Nazi “National Socialist” quite accurate. Well at least for anyone who studied history.

Study harder: Nazism#Economics - Wikipedia

 

[F1fan]

So with the history of Germany, Italy, Russia, China, Cambodia etc. you feel inclined to trust that governments will always want what is best for their people?

Those governments prohibited personal freedoms and liberties to a degree that no one in the USA is suggesting, except the republicans with their anti-CRT, book bannings, anti-trans, anti-voting, anti-reproductive rights, etc. All democrats want is more advantages for citizens who are struggling to make ends meet. It's not socialism to help balance the financial burdens for the less advantaged to the highly advantaged, it is basic human decency.

 

[Truth in love]

Anarchy isn't the best either. "By the people for the people" - if religious organizations followed a democratic system, instead of self-proclaimed dictatorships, with leaders chosen based on their good deeds, rather than words....

1. There are options like a republic. It’s not socialism or anarchy.


2. Religions have different methods for leadership. Some are pretty democratic. Some get mega rich pastors. Some don’t.


3. With few exceptions religion can’t be forced on people if you don’t like pastor A you don’t have to follow him or give him money. You can take pastor B C or none at all. When it’s the government they jail you or shot you if you don’t comply.

 

[Truth in love]

In other words the lost lives of innocent victims is just a number to you?

A nuclear warhead is an arm, but you wouldn't want your neighbor having one. That's an extreme example but it does illustrate that there is a limit. We can't have rocket propelled grenades or fully automatic machine guns. Is that restriction a human rights violation?



Children getting slaughtered in schools has nothing to do with our laws or human rights?

Lives are never just a number to me. Given that most anti gunners are great with planned parenthood I typically ignore their claims of lives lost. The assumption that disarming good people will save lives is not based on fact.

WMDs cannot be used without massive loss of innocent lives. However the current restrictions are excessive. I should be able to buy full autos and be armed like a member of the military if I choose.

Children being killed in schools has everything to do with people being abused and related traumas; poor self control, broken families, glorifying violence in media etc.

 

[Truth in love]

More false equivalency and straw men. Nobody is pointing to Venezuela's system as a desired model. How about taking a look at Scandinavian countries? Nobody is apposing freedom, hard work, and strong ethics. BTW, hard work and strong ethics aren't closing the growing gap between the rich and the poor. Some people work two jobs just to get by. The rungs on the economic ladder are broken.

Speaking of freedom, who has a history of opposing bodily autonomy, gay marriage, cannabis legalization, flag burning, etc.? Who's been trying to ban books lately?

1. We have major limits on the free market. So let’s not pretend that the current system is that great it’s not.

2.I don’t oppose bodily autonomy, just the offing of other humans under that false flag.
My position on gay marriage for many years has been to have the government butt out so that everyone is treated equally. I’m great with cannabis for ropes etc. the THC brain frying substance should be banned as long as I can be force to pay for others bad choices.
I’ve never been into book banning. I don’t think we need laws on what you do with a flag.

(PS if you just want to have some canned argument with a run of the mill Republican. It’s not me. )

 

[Truth in love]

Study harder: Nazism#Economics - Wikipedia

Years. Do you have a problem with historical facts?

 

[Ella S.]

Grated many abuse religion to be greedy and harm others. But the core is beautiful.

socilism on the other hand at its core is rotten filled with greed, laziness etc.

Where is the evidence?
Which system murdered 100 million people in the 1900’s?
Which theory dominates the riots across the US?
which theory is happy to sacrifice the individual and reduced a person to being just a number?

How is the core of socialism greed when it's about providing enough for everyone's needs? Especially when contrasted to capitalism, which has given us megacorporations who view people themselves as merely means for accumulating greater capital, and has created our consumerist culture.

How many people have died from preventable disease, starvation, and exposure in capitalist countries? You think it's lazy and greedy to want to save those people?

I'm not a Marxist, and I certainly think the USSR and Maoist China were horrific, but I don't think that's the same as socialism being "rotten filled with greed, laziness, etc."

If you wanted to criticize socialism, maybe you could criticize it for often manifesting as severe collectivism, to the point of censoring free speech, torturing political dissidents, and committing democides, but definitely not for being "greedy." I'd also argue that these are more issues with Communism than socialism.

 

[Ella S.]

In Socialism a small group has total control over the economy. Those pushing for socialism often use tactics of division, covering, lying, hate, violence etc to push their agenda. Many of them profit greatly from the suffering of others. While a free market does not end all suffering puts people in charge of their lives, it allows many many people to be rich. Those greedy for power can gain it by being nice. No gun is out to my head to force me to comply with your whim.

A free market is a great economic system. It is not the best moral system. The paring of religious values common in most beliefs to care for the poor solves most of this.

Obeying the law “render unto Caesar “ does not mean it’s an endorsement of anything and everything Caesar may wish to do.

There is such a thing as "market socialism." Socialism and free markets aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[Father Heathen]

...the THC brain frying substance should be banned as long as I can be force to pay for others bad choices.

I assume you also believe that alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine should be banned as well? Or fastfood and sweets for that matter?

 

[Father Heathen]

Years. Do you have a problem with historical facts?

Were the Nazis Socialists?

 

[Aupmanyav]

is religion a socialist type organization and if so, why would a religious person be against socialism but utilizing social programs; such as....police, fire, military and education programs?

Hinduism is not against socialism. What is wrong if the government takes care of those who lack in means? Gandhi, Nehru were socialists. In Gandhi's view the rich were custodians of money for the poor. In a democracy, it is necessary to take care of the poor. Otherwise the political party will face defeat. The current Indian government has hugely helped the poor during the Covid outbreak. The poor are getting free ration since the beginning of the epidemic and it will continue till this November. During the current floods also governments (at Center or in States) will try to help those affected. Of course, corruption is a part of these things.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I assume you also believe that alcohol, tobacco, and caffeine should be banned as well? Or fastfood and sweets for that matter?

Well, these have nothing much to recommend, but many of these things cannot be banned instantly. Banning tobacco will be nice, though it has importance in our economy - agriculture, Indian 'beedi' manufacturing (hand-rolled leaf cigarettes, the cigarette of the poor) provides employment to millions of people, and tax for the government. It has to be done slowly providing alternatives to these people. Sweets can be taxed higher. For India, chocolate should not be welcome, will save foreign exchange. It only provides profits to a few MNCs. I have nothing against alcohol, tea, coffee and fastfood. People need some fun in life. Actually, I want government to tax alcohol lightly. Why make it costly and encourage spurious liquor? I am totally against banning of beef in India.