"Religion of Peace?"

[icehorse]

Polls told Americans Clinton would win. So much for polls.

Clinton did win the popular vote. So the polls were reasonably accurate. There have been recent polls of tens of thousands of Muslims across dozens of countries. I trust the results of those polls to be reasonably accurate much more than I trust your ad hoc reckoning.

 

[LuisDantas]

The op might suffer from cowardice.

If you don't strike first you won't be struck. Every person and nation has a right to fight oppression and invaders of their land, attacks against you or family.

That is neither all that true nor good recomendation for a supposed religion.

 

[icehorse]

That'll soon change.

In Europe sharia is taking hold. How do you think Muslims react when they can't get their way?

Dude, I'm quite concerned about the spread of Sharia. I share your concern.

 

[sun rise]

Oh! So Muslims are allowed to make up there own school of thought?

Yes

Allah says: "Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Nay, on the hearts there are locks." (47:24), and: "Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy." (04:82). We deduce from these two verses that people are obliged to read the Quran and it is their right to understand it, reflect on it, and study the denotations and connotations of the words that formed it.

(...)we believe that every educated person who is well-acquainted with the basic sources of the religious knowledge and who is well-versed in the Arabic language, as well as the entire aspects of the religious knowledge… has the right to interpret the Quran in accordance with his culture, whether he was a Muslim or a non-Muslim,..

Can any Muslim interpret the Qur'an accurately?

 

[hughwatt]

Please follow along. The OP poster is specifically asking about an isolated interpretation of the scripture.

Remind me again of the Islamic sources you've posted so far to support your views.

 

[LuisDantas]

Since there is no Islamic "Catholic church" saying who is a "real" Muslim and who is not, it's up to the individual to judge just like in the political sphere there are those who claim that others are not "real" Democrats or Republicans.

So when I read that someone believes that someone is not a real "whatever", I take that as a personal opinion backed up with a specific reasons.

I agree.

I also find that lacking regarding taking responsibility for the doctrine one sustains to be true.

 

[hughwatt]

Yes

Allah says: "Do they not then reflect on the Quran? Nay, on the hearts there are locks." (47:24), and: "Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy." (04:82). We deduce from these two verses that people are obliged to read the Quran and it is their right to understand it, reflect on it, and study the denotations and connotations of the words that formed it.

(...)we believe that every educated person who is well-acquainted with the basic sources of the religious knowledge and who is well-versed in the Arabic language, as well as the entire aspects of the religious knowledge… has the right to interpret the Quran in accordance with his culture, whether he was a Muslim or a non-Muslim,..

Can any Muslim interpret the Qur'an accurately?

So the Shia, Sufi, NoI, are all right?

 

[icehorse]

Remind me again of the Islamic sources you've posted so far to support your views.

Well an ambiguous OP has led us down several paths. That said, in terms of scriptural sources I'm using:

- several English translations of the Quran
- several English translations of the Hadith (which I've only sampled)
- several biographies of Muhammad
- the Bible

 

[hughwatt]

Clinton did win the popular vote. So the polls were reasonably accurate. There have been recent polls of tens of thousands of Muslims across dozens of countries. I trust the results of those polls to be reasonably accurate much more than I trust your ad hoc reckoning.

And there she sits proudly in the oval office.

 

[hughwatt]

Well an ambiguous OP has led us down several paths. That said, in terms of scriptural sources I'm using:

- several English translations of the Quran
- several English translations of the Hadith (which I've only sampled)
- several biographies of Muhammad
- the Bible

You've yet to give one single Islamic quote to back anything you've said so far.

 

[sun rise]

So the Shia, Sufi, NoI, are all right?

They are with me and with friends some of whom are Muslim. The whole area of sufism is too broad for one thread such as this, but in India Chisti sufism had Hindu members and Hazrat Inayat Khan who brought Chisti Sufism to the west had a prayer with this lines which of course the fanatics hate:

Allow us to recognize Thee In all Thy holy names and forms;
As Rama, as Krishna, as Shiva, as Buddha; Let us know Thee as Abraham, as Solomon, as Zarathustra, as Moses, as Jesus, as Mohammed,

Just to note that I'm against any religion seeking to impose religious doctrine on a country's laws whether it be Muslims or Christian's seeking to have Christian prayers in public schools.

 

[Aberamentho]

If you truly have you know it has rights for women, preaches religious tolerance, and even proper concuct in battle, doesn't declare only Muslims go to Heaven like certain other religious texts, Christian mainly.

You should know it is a very just book, if you don't you don't understand it, which is common.

I think you are more misinformed by bias than anything, Mohammed's biography is inspiring so I don't know what point you are trying to make.

Your information sounds scattered and poorly researched. It is definitely poorly presented, can you cite some reliable sources, I would love learn about this?

Turkey is no longer controlled by Islam, it is actually a Masonic-Zionist outpost, I imagine that's why.

Further, Icehouse, even Ghandi, upon reading the biography of Mohammed (saw) said he was convinced that the stories of Muslim violent conquest were myths, and was inspired by the life of the Prophet (saw) and sad that he could not read more about him.

I have to doubt you actually read it, since I know it myself, and a peaceful man like Ghandi even was inspired by his (saw) life, how anyone could be but inspired is baffling.

And regarding the Qur'an I also have my doubts, if you actually did read it it was likely done with no Tafsir which would leave anyone baffled what exactly is going on.

There is historical context that apllies to many quotes, they get taken out of context and are misunderstood. Once the explanation is provided a clearer picture emerges.

Personally I don't believe a word you say.

You talk about polls, never provided any information about them so it is as if they don't exist, which is almost certainly the case.

 

[hughwatt]

They are with me and with friends some of whom are Muslim. The whole area of sufism is too broad for one thread such as this, but in India Chisti sufism had Hindu members and Hazrat Inayat Khan who brought Chisti Sufism to the west had a prayer with this lines which of course the fanatics hate:

Allow us to recognize Thee In all Thy holy names and forms;
As Rama, as Krishna, as Shiva, as Buddha; Let us know Thee as Abraham, as Solomon, as Zarathustra, as Moses, as Jesus, as Mohammed,

Just to note that I'm against any religion seeking to impose religious doctrine on a country's laws whether it be Muslims or Christian's seeking to have Christian prayers in public schools.

Are you Baha'i?

 

[icehorse]

And regarding the Qur'an I also have my doubts, if you actually did read it it was likely done with no Tafsir which would leave anyone baffled what exactly is going on.

The translation I read cover to cover was done by two highly regarded Islamic scholars who spent thousands of hours to create the translation. That means more to me than your individual opinion. It also means more to me than some random Imam's opinion. Specifically, I read the translation done by (forgive the lack of special characters):

Dr. Muhammad Taqi-ud-Din Al-Hilali and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan

This translation has been printed over 250 million times. I believe that this translation is the mostly widely printed of all the English translations.

There is historical context that apllies to many quotes, they get taken out of context and are misunderstood. Once the explanation is provided a clearer picture emerges.

Personally I don't believe a word you say.

I have been told by many Muslims over the years that the Quran is perfect, final, unalterable and timeless. If this claim is true, then historical context should not be necessary. If you want to dispute other Muslims and say that the book is NOT timeless, then your call for context would carry more weight. But you cannot have it both ways. It's either timeless or it's not.

You talk about polls, never provided any information about them so it is as if they don't exist, which is almost certainly the case.

Fair enough. I have cited these polls many, many times on RF, but I didn't do it here. Let's start with this one:

The World’s Muslims: Religion, Politics and Society

Call me a liar if you will, but every claim I've made, I've made based on the best data I can find. And again, I'm going to trust the poll results of tens of thousands of Muslims, more than I trust your opinion.

Let me ask you this, what are your sources?

 

[sun rise]

Are you Baha'i?

No, Meher Baba.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Are you Baha'i?

This thread is about Islam.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

If Islam is a "religion of peace" as some Muslims and leftist liberals state where do the jihadists get their violent actions from?

Their own motives.

A book at teaches peace, I can still find murder in it. Buddhism teaches peace but I can warp its teachings for muderer. Christianity the bible teaches sacrifice so I can either follow gods example to sacrifice my child if I had one in the name of god or I can learn that god wants the highest sacrifice even if it coast your most precious item. Same as the quran and every book religious or not.

So, I go by the people. Islam the religion is a religion of peace. God defines their religion not Muslims. So going by Muslims do define a religion is not a good indecator that Islam in itself is not peaceful

 

[Aberamentho]

Really?!

Yes these people look worried.

I wonder if fear mongering has anything to do with it.

Or a total misunderstanding of what it is.

Mobs always assemble for purely rational reasons I am sure (these people are insane).

The fact is Sharia is everywhere Islam is already and that includes Europe and America.

It isn't necessary to import what is local already, and Sharia is a part of Islam so if you have Muslims near you...

You already have Sharia.

Thanks for the hilarious picture of assembled cowards who are protesting for nothing. The only way to eliminate Sharia is to eliminate Islam.

Simply put they are protesting against something that they don't realize has been there all along.

Because they don't know what Sharia is. The government says fear it, and like good idiots, they do.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Polls told Americans Clinton would win. So much for polls.

Polls are predictive, not infallible.

 

[hughwatt]

Their own motives.

Not the ayah they quote?