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Religion vs. Faith

J

JoStories

Well-Known Member
Carlita said:
@JoStories

Taking my experiences out of this.

Do you understand that customs, culture, and tradition are a part of an individuals faith in god?

Do you also know that customs, culture, and tradition shape the way the believer and/or community believes?

Do you know that customs, culture, and tradition define many religions to where faith is not abstract like love but a full immersion and identity?

Do you understand that the rituals you guys speak of are the customs, culture, and traditions that are a part of NOT in place of faith....that these shape how a believer and/or community believes, and define how many religions put their faith to action: charity, helping the homeless, and all the above?

Do you understand that customs, traditions, and culture do not stand alone without faith?
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I disagree with you on all points. Customs, culture and tradition have more to do with a society and less to do with faith, although they can be connected. Faith can be independent of culture, as a person can be born in the middle east and decide to be Christian. That is culture. Customs are also variable. As is tradition. In Africa, it is traditional for young women to have a cliterectomy. Thankfully, that tradition is slowly being stopped. You are trying to infuse several concepts into faith and ritual that are not necessarily a part of faith or ritual.
 
SpeaksForTheTrees

SpeaksForTheTrees

Well-Known Member
JoStories said:
I disagree with you on all points. Customs, culture and tradition have more to do with a society and less to do with faith, although they can be connected. Faith can be independent of culture, as a person can be born in the middle east and decide to be Christian. That is culture. Customs are also variable. As is tradition. In Africa, it is traditional for young women to have a cliterectomy. Thankfully, that tradition is slowly being stopped. You are trying to infuse several concepts into faith and ritual that are not necessarily a part of faith or ritual.
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Christian Catholic Church
Christian Prodestant Church
Are differences of faiths that seperates the two .
Catholics have rosary bead , similar to Jewish beads , Prodestant do not is just one difference .
 
wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Carlita said:
How is puting faith in a religious belief steps away from faith from the heart?
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A religious belief is a concept from the mind; it takes effort to apply the heart (faith/trust) to the practise.

As before you keep quoting you applied your faith to the religious beliefs, and rituals, and everyone else will be doing that as well....

I beg to differ, and gave an example of my granddad who was a devout Roman Catholic, lots of people are like him; they want to have a quick fix without much effort.

You've got to see that not everyone thinks like you, that ceremony is sacred; some just see it as a chore, that is required for their salvation.
Carlita said:
Unless I was a fake catholic, I dont see how one can have ritual without faith. I see a lot of catholics have faith first (usually around my age group).
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From what you're saying you're a truly religious person, yet many are not; they think if they do the ritual, something might come out of it, then years later many become atheist, as they see no returns.

You've really got to stop assuming, everyone is like you, and are applying the same values to their rituals, and beliefs.
Carlita said:
Unless youre saying their faith is based on ritual and not the heart?
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The reason i gave the example, is that some religions have many steps of religious belief, before you reach applying faith to them....

I get you apply faith first, and you think everyone else does the same, lots don't.

So the more steps there are before faith, the more likely some people will get lost in the layers of religious belief, and never find true faith. :innocent:

P.s I've spent my life studying religions, and people, so when I'm saying about the CCC, it isn't through lack of study.

P.P.s Simon and Paul are virtually the same teachings, they even validate each other.
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
SpeaksForTheTrees said:
An old friend from college , Jacob used to carry a string of beads , not seen him since I closed my books and walked out of law school some 27 years ago.
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And I wear a scarf. Not every personal affectation is related to religion. There are no "Jewish beads."
 
SpeaksForTheTrees

SpeaksForTheTrees

Well-Known Member
wizanda said:
I beg to differ, and gave an example of my granddad who was a devout Roman Catholic, lots of people are like him; they want to have a quick fix without much effort.
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And this is why God made compromise yet again , giving his son to provide man with the quick fix.
Dewd this voices from sky thing makes it more credible , mine bigger an better than yours or" realer "does not interest vast amounts of people and that is what religion has become , is a no brainer to be honest .
Glory to God alone
 
Jedster

Jedster

Flying through space
SpeaksForTheTrees said:
Was a Gartel or Tzitzit ,from his waist ,similar concept to rosary please do not be difficult for personal issue.
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PMFJI.
I used to wear Tztizit when I was observant in Rabbinic Judaism. I would make a blessing when dressing in the morning and wore the tzizit all day under my outer clothes. Some people were it on the outside.
I don't think this compares to rosary usage which , according to a former Catholic I just asked, is used as an aid to prayer.
I never wore a gartel for prayer although many Jews do. So in a way, a gartel is special for prayer just as the rosary is.
 
wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
SpeaksForTheTrees said:
And this is why God made compromise yet again , giving his son to provide man with the quick fix.
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God didn't make a compromise by giving his son, we murdered him, and the whole thing is a snare to catch out the workers of iniquity. :innocent:
 
rosends

rosends

Well-Known Member
SpeaksForTheTrees said:
Was a Gartel or Tzitzit ,from his waist ,similar concept to rosary please do not be difficult for personal issue.
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A gartel is a belt which serves a couple of purposes. One reason is so that one has a piece of clothing set aside for prayer. The tzitzit are fringes which we are required to have on the corners of certain garments and are a reminder fo the Exodus. AFAIK, rosary beads are used in counting repetitions in prayers. Not the same.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
JoStories said:
First of all, I was not yelling, I emphasized that word, that is all. Now, I don't believe, IMO, that Wizanda ever belittled Catholics. I agree that rituals does not mean that someone does not have faith and that, yes, it can often strengthen that faith. I have said that multiple times. However, that being said, I strongly disagree that faith and rituals go hand in hand. But we have hammered this to death so we should agree to disagree. I read the post you have repeatedly referred me to. I didn't see anything new in that post that needed to be expounded upon. So ultimately we agree to disagree.
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Thats basically my overall point: rituals (customs, culture, and tradition) go hand in hand with trust.

Sorry calling you male.
 
SpeaksForTheTrees

SpeaksForTheTrees

Well-Known Member
rosends said:
A gartel is a belt which serves a couple of purposes. One reason is so that one has a piece of clothing set aside for prayer. The tzitzit are fringes which we are required to have on the corners of certain garments and are a reminder fo the Exodus. AFAIK, rosary beads are used in counting repetitions in prayers. Not the same.
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Please see post #152
 
SpeaksForTheTrees

SpeaksForTheTrees

Well-Known Member
Subjective symbolic rejection of God is the crucifixion , lol as if you actually murdered him .
Benefit is my belief is free from string and tangles .
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
JoStories said:
I disagree with you on all points. Customs, culture and tradition have more to do with a society and less to do with faith, although they can be connected. Faith can be independent of culture, as a person can be born in the middle east and decide to be Christian. That is culture. Customs are also variable. As is tradition. In Africa, it is traditional for young women to have a cliterectomy. Thankfully, that tradition is slowly being stopped. You are trying to infuse several concepts into faith and ritual that are not necessarily a part of faith or ritual.
Click to expand...

Thats why many cultures have sycronized beliefs systems. A very basic example is language differences. If a Muslim becomes christian he or she may still call god Allah.

Customs such as certain prayers with family are valued as part of faith. And so on. Its not a generalized statement.

Its just saying culture, traditions, etc have a lot to do with a persons faith. For "some" people its inseperable.

I understand how and why. A lot of people who disagree with rituals dont understand that. I honestly dont know why. American culture has a mixed mash, so that could be it. Some countries dont have religion, so that could be an influence. Most countries have customs, cultures, and traditions and for anyone including me to say these values and practices are not inline with their faith is, well, um, just wrong.

I mean, some people say customs, cultures, traditions Are their faith. That doesnt mean they cant have faith without these things. They value their family customs, example, so much it is their identity. Both faith and family and societal customs become inseperable.

I personally never had that experience. I dont have a strong culture that shapes my believe in the spirits and my family. I have rituals that I adopted or created to where they are important to me.

Other people outside the states dont see it this way. Their culture, how they were raised to see things etc, shapes the way they view the world. Within that communal worldview, they have religion (depending on where in the country they live) and their faith (as I said in the OP) is the core of their customs, traditions, culture.

In the first page before you jumped in, I told the OP that faith is the core of religion and religion is the practices of ones faith. 105 is a summary of all that was said since you jumped in the middle expressing your opinion about something I already thought @wizanda and I already finished talking about.

---

For the record and Im thinking of puting this in my sig. Medically, I cannot process a lot of information at one time. I forget what I say within paragraphs so Im constantly editing after I "post reply". (Hence why all my posts are long and repetitive) I read all of your (and everyones) posts and use a lot of quotes (say in 105) to separate my thoughts and address each point independently for my benefit. I cant do small posts unless the topic is easy to understand.

As a result, I ask everyone to take your time and read my posts or points which Im trying to color in or mark before replying. If you do reply without reading, reword what I said with commentary and reference it so I can read it myself.

Unfortunetely, I cant changed the way my brain is misfiring. Please take that into considerations when reading my posts.

--

My main points is I know culture, traditions, and customs go hand in hand with faith. These things arent isolated from each other.

That does Not mean you and Wizanda cant have faith without these things. It just means "some" people of all cultures find the two inseparable on regards to religion. I agree.
 
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