Religious Nationalism in the US

[Sand Dancer]

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Also in the Declaration of independence: “the laws of nature and of nature’s God” and it closes by “appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world” and noting the signers’ “reliance on the protection of divine Providence.”

These are Christian references and that language that some want to call deist was also used in such Christen documents as the Westminster confession.

Nature's God and creator are Deist terms.

 

[Sand Dancer]

i'm trying to find a chart of which faith the founding fathers were part of. I have been searching for some time but i haven't hit the right words to activate the algorithms to give me what I want.

Episcopalian, Unitarian, Deist and Quaker.

 

[Revoltingest]

A long dead engineer friend (from back in my
Northrop days) was a fundamentalist Christian.
He said he preferred a secular government
cuz the wrong kind of theocracy loving Christians
would gain power.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Without nationalism, we would not have any nations. Do you think USA should be abolished, or Afghanistan, or any other nation? I think it is repressive, intolerant and authoritarian to force everyone to be the same, that is why I think nationalism is good. Obviously I would not want to be part of all possible nations, but I think people should have right to have roots, heritage, history and way of their own, which I think nationality and nationalism is essentially. I think it is very important also for liberty to have many different nations, because it gives opportunity for choice and protects people from oppression that will come with one world government without nations. Nationalism protects people's way of life, which is why I think it is good.

Every human is one step a way from fascism. All people can be fascistic, even if not nationalists. Today biggest fascists seem to be the "antifa" people. Nationalism is no more fascistic than any other idea. But, nationalism and any other idea can be used for fascistic purposes.

"America is supposed to be a land of liberty and justice for all". I think that is American nationalism. And I think it is based on Christian principles and worked well, when majority of the people were Christian. Now America doesn't seem to have liberty nor justice and I think it is because people are not anymore Christian.

I don't think people should be forced to accept everything, which seems to be the opposite of "Christian nationalism". People should have right to be intolerant. If people are forced to tolerate everything, it is authoritarianism and repressive.

Fascism is based on national identity, among other things.

 

[Polymath257]

Are you saying love isn't an important ingredient?

Maybe that 'Christian love' isn't all it claims to be? And maybe it isn't so much love as it is desire to control?

 

[SkepticThinker]

So, forget the quotes because you have something against a university?

I don't trust said "University" to present anything in an impartial, honest light. Sorry. Been 'round the block too many times on that. And please don't get me started on Dennis Prager.

 

[SkepticThinker]

We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.” Also in the Declaration of independence: “the laws of nature and of nature’s God” and it closes by “appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world” and noting the signers’ “reliance on the protection of divine Providence.”

These are Christian references and that language that some want to call deist was also used in such Christen documents as the Westminster confession.

Where are the "Christian references" in there?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Without nationalism, we would not have any nations. Do you think USA should be abolished, or Afghanistan, or any other nation? I think it is repressive, intolerant and authoritarian to force everyone to be the same, that is why I think nationalism is good. Obviously I would not want to be part of all possible nations, but I think people should have right to have roots, heritage, history and way of their own, which I think nationality and nationalism is essentially. I think it is very important also for liberty to have many different nations, because it gives opportunity for choice and protects people from oppression that will come with one world government without nations. Nationalism protects people's way of life, which is why I think it is good.

Every human is one step a way from fascism. All people can be fascistic, even if not nationalists. Today biggest fascists seem to be the "antifa" people. Nationalism is no more fascistic than any other idea. But, nationalism and any other idea can be used for fascistic purposes.

"America is supposed to be a land of liberty and justice for all". I think that is American nationalism. And I think it is based on Christian principles and worked well, when majority of the people were Christian. Now America doesn't seem to have liberty nor justice and I think it is because people are not anymore Christian.

I don't think people should be forced to accept everything, which seems to be the opposite of "Christian nationalism". People should have right to be intolerant. If people are forced to tolerate everything, it is authoritarianism and repressive.

The biggest fascists today are the anti-fascists?
Tolerance is authoritarian and repressive?
Huh?

 

[Kenny]

Episcopalian, Unitarian, Deist and Quaker.

Yes... but I meant... an actual count... how many Presbyterians, Episcopalian, Deists et al

 

[sun rise]

Maybe that 'Christian love' isn't all it claims to be? And maybe it isn't so much love as it is desire to control?

The problem is not with Christian love as an ideal but with how tiny the minority is that actually lives that life of love. The desire to control is antithetical to love.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Where are the "Christian references" in there?

Facepalm.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Nature's God and creator are Deist terms.

These are Christian references and that language that some want to call deist was also used in such Christen documents as the Westminster confession.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Weird how they didn't mention Jesus or the Bible in the documents. They learned from the Enlightenment values. They knew better than to repeat what England did.

That's because they were not trying to create a theocracy.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Facepalm.

So, you can't point them out? And still no examples of specifically "Christian values?"

They sound pretty deistic in nature to me. Where's the stuff that makes it specifically Christian?

 

[SkepticThinker]

These are Christian references and that language that some want to call deist was also used in such Christen documents as the Westminster confession.

"Nature's God" is a Christian reference?? From where?

Sounds like a description of a deistic god to me.

 

[Wildswanderer]

These were highly educated men that used their cultural inheritance to describe things. They were familiar with the Bible, but also with Greek and Roman mythology. They knew history and were a part of the Western cultural heritage. They freely used references to all of these to get their ideas across.

Read thier writings and you will find all most all of them were Christians.

 

[Wildswanderer]

"Nature's God" is a Christian reference?? From where?

Sounds like a description of a deistic god to me.

I guess you missed the part about the same language being used in Christian documents...

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yeah, I already explained the use of "Creator" as being a push back against the King of England who claimed divine rights over the colonies. By the Founding Fathers asserting they had equal divine rights they had themselves the authority to reject the King and self-govern. Do you see how they would make a religious reference to counter a religious claim?

Just shows that they were Christians using Christian reasoning.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I guess you missed the part about the same language being used in Christian documents...

What "Christian documents?"

That is the language of deism. Maybe if the Declaration of Independence had said something like "We are endowed by our Creator, Jesus Christ" you might have a point. But it doesn't.
And the Constitution says nothing about any religion at all, other than stating that the government cannot make any laws respecting the establishment of religion.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Just shows that they were Christians using Christian reasoning.

They were using Enlightenment reasoning which is evident in their phrasings.