Religious Nationalism in the US

[metis]

Socialists are the most selfish, because they think others must pay or give services for them for nothing.

Then you really don't believe in what Jesus taught, which should be clear in his "Sermon On the Mount". He wasn't just talking about charity, btw, as he reinforced the necessity of not negating the work of the Great Sanhedrin that mandated help for the poor and the widows, and this shows up in his Parable of the Widow's Mite where he praised her for giving beyond what was required.

 

[F1fan]

.

Spirit is known to exist among those who experience it.

And what exactly is it to "exverience spirit"? What is the method to discern an imagined experience versus an authetic experience?

I am aware of altered states, like Native American sweat lodges and taking LSD or other hallucinogenics. Is this what you are talking about? I am also aware how the mind can create euphoric experiences at events, like revivals and even sports events, and this is caused by hormones in the blood that activate the reward center of the brain.

Inside looking out would be the observations of the spirit born mind.

OK, what is a "spirirt born mind" and what senses does it have that are better than our five senses? Use facts.

Human self will got us 9-11. Men forcing their will onto their idea of God. Atheist do the same kinds of things.

And how do ordinary mortals, like yourself, know the difference? Explain the reliable and objective method you use.

The existence of religion is the proof of the existence of faith in reality.

This is a claim. Where are the facts and explanation? We already know faith exists, and we can see how unreliable it is to determine truth. The 9-11 hijackers are an extreme example, but even far right Christians who behave in constrat to what Jesus taught are in the same category, albeit aren't murdering anyone. Mean, nasty, judgmental Christians show us how faith fails many believers. That religion exists only points to cultural traditions that linger.

It’s not a matter of being special, it’s a matter of an open mind verses stubborn obstinacy.

Yet critical thinkers are open minded but don't come to the same conclusions as theists, so that's not accurate. Critical thinkers give theists plenty of opportunities to offer evidence and explanations why their beliefs are true in reality, but we don't get adequate evidence nor rational explanations. Critical thinkers are often accused of "not getting it" but theists fail to explain what they "don't get".

If theists aren't special than anyone should be able to follow the method theists claim has allowed them some "spiritual experience", but it doesn't add up. Let's note the social science have observed religious behavior and have explanations why theists feel the eupohia of belief. As noted much of this is chemicals in the brain. Much of it is learned behavior due to social influences. This is why children born to Catholic parents will end up being Catholic themselves, and not Baptist, or Muslim, or Hindu. Science has also revealed the genetics of the human brain as it evolved to be tribal, and the "believing brain" was selected over many tens of thousands of years. Why was it selected? Because early humans who cooperated with the tribe had an advantage in survival. This meant to adopt tribal norms as a way to establish trust and belonging.

This is why today we see so much division among citizens of nations. We see unity when the nation is attacked or threatened, like back in September 11, 2001. Since then we have seen more rift in society and politics as there are fewer national enemies. The Russian invasion of Ukraine has created unity since Russia is our biggest adversary. But now we are seeing some of the far right in Congress saying they want to stop aid for Ukraine, and some are even pro-Russia. We humans have a hard time feeling unified when there is no clear enemy, so there is a motivation to create enemies.

Many of the right wing policies we see these days aim to marginalize groups of citizens, like women and their reproduction rights, trans people, gay marriage, the CRT hysteria that is baseless disinformation, banned books, labeling liberals as socialists/communists, indifference for healthcare reform, etc. Many of these policies are opposed by republicans just because democrats are working to expand more advantages to citizens, with healthcare being the biggest issue. What effect will eliminating Social Security and Medicare have on citizens? It will be a death sentence for many, driving them into poverty and no access to healthcare. That's your Christian nationalism, and how it indicates a complete failure of faith.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Then you really don't believe in what Jesus taught, which should be clear in his "Sermon On the Mount". He wasn't just talking about charity, btw, as he reinforced the necessity of not negating the work of the Great Sanhedrin that mandated help for the poor and the widows, and this shows up in his Parable of the Widow's Mite where he praised her for giving beyond what was required.

Makes me wonder what they'd think if they had enough of an understanding of Abraham's God to know Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have a religious mandate of religous socialism to give to the poor, take care of the poor, blessed be the poor. Their god commanded they give to those "selfish leeches" long before any modern state could even have the chance.

 

[metis]

Many of these policies are opposed by republicans just because democrats are working to expand more advantages to citizens, with healthcare being the biggest issue. What effect will eliminating Social Security and Medicare have on citizens? It will be a death sentence for many, driving them into poverty and no access to healthcare.

Amen, and I think if Jesus was personally here and looking at what the Pubs are trying to do, he would slap them silly-- just kidding.

 

[F1fan]

Atheists know that spirituality is subjective, so they demand "proofs" and when none is forthcoming, they claim victory!

Theists often claim their "spiritual" beliefs as if they are objective, real, factual, etc. There is seldom an admission that their experiences are just their minds creating them. Let's note that the experiences many theists claim are "spiritual" are just like many other experiences humans have, including atheists. It's just that theists interpret these chemical states of the brain as "spiritual" and don't understand what they really are. Theists want to have a payoff for their religious belief and rituals, and attributing these emotioanl experiences as being "spiritual" is a way to do it. The flaw is accusing atheists of not having similar experience. The only difference is that atheists don't assume religious belief and assumptions are true, nor use such assumptions to interpret experiences.

Get out more? How boring must an atheist's life be that they have nothing better to do than join religious forums to heckle people of faith?

Oh boy, how are you any less bored and have better things to do that prevent you from posting? This illustrates how theists will cast accusations against others for things they do themselves, but for some reason the theist is svecial, or exempt, or doing God's work, or something. What's the biblical saying about the plank in your eye?

 

[Sand Dancer]

Limiting sex ed is not in my opinion limiting human rights. Forcing sex ed to everyone is. And if you mean with birth control abortions, allowing abortions is limiting baby's right to live. If person doesn't want to have babies, he can for example choose not to have sex, no one is restricting that.

I think generally parents can opt their kids out. My personal opinion on how to go about is to have a book that kids can read one chapter a day, and have a quiz on it the next day. No classroom discussion or embarrassment. Any questions can be written down and given to teacher, who can call the student later at home and answer. Classroom discussion can be limited to how the parts work, etc, but no discussion on sexuality.
I was talking just birth control, period.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I disagree with that. Socialists are the most selfish, because they think others must pay or give services for them for nothing. People who like to be served and not give anything to others, love socialism. People who want to take care of themselves and help those who are helpless, are not socialists and don't love socialism and for them it is in no way good.

That's not how it plays out in the real world though, which is good.
Here's an example: I used to live in WI, and for our taxes we got sidewalks, curbs, streetlights, large beautiful streets wide enough for 2 lanes of traffic, plus lanes to park on each side of the road. We got snow plows in the winter and street cleaners the rest of the time. Good use of taxes, people are happy. In LA, taxes are low; there are no curbs, sidewalks, the roads are pot holed, etc.
Which would you rather have?

 

[metis]

Makes me wonder what they'd think if they had enough of an understanding of Abraham's God to know Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have a religious mandate of religous socialism to give to the poor, take care of the poor, bbut witlessed be the poor. Their god commanded they give to those "selfish leeches" long before any modern state could even have the chance.

I think that the early Church in at least the early part of the 1st century would, but either way we well know that the first three centuries of the Church demanded that Jesus' followers must take care of the poor and widows even if it threatened their own lives. This kind of generosity attracted many to the faith, so even when Constantine made the Church official, they immediately started the likes of hospitals, charities, greater educational opportunities, etc.

Of course, some of the other things done under Constantine's directions were not so cool.

 

[Sand Dancer]

How is providing sex ed in public schools putting a limit on human rights, exactly?

What is a "birth control abortion?"

Fetuses don't have a right to life. The fully grown and developed woman is the one who has the right to life and the right to bodily autonomy.

Human beings have sex. That is a fact of life. Equipping people with the education and tools they need to do so in a well-informed, safe and healthy way throughout their lives is not only beneficial to individuals, but to society at large. Abstinence-only school programs have been a demonstrably abysmal failure that has resulted in an increase in teen pregnancies and rates of sexually transmitted diseases. That is not good for the individual or for society as a whole.

I think he/she means the abortifacient types.

 

[Colt]

.

And what exactly is it to "exverience spirit"? What is the method to discern an imagined experience versus an authetic experience?

I am aware of altered states, like Native American sweat lodges and taking LSD or other hallucinogenics. Is this what you are talking about? I am also aware how the mind can create euphoric experiences at events, like revivals and even sports events, and this is caused by hormones in the blood that activate the reward center of the brain.


OK, what is a "spirirt born mind" and what senses does it have that are better than our five senses? Use facts.


And how do ordinary mortals, like yourself, know the difference? Explain the reliable and objective method you use.


This is a claim. Where are the facts and explanation? We already know faith exists, and we can see how unreliable it is to determine truth. The 9-11 hijackers are an extreme example, but even far right Christians who behave in constrat to what Jesus taught are in the same category, albeit aren't murdering anyone. Mean, nasty, judgmental Christians show us how faith fails many believers. That religion exists only points to cultural traditions that linger.


Yet critical thinkers are open minded but don't come to the same conclusions as theists, so that's not accurate. Critical thinkers give theists plenty of opportunities to offer evidence and explanations why their beliefs are true in reality, but we don't get adequate evidence nor rational explanations. Critical thinkers are often accused of "not getting it" but theists fail to explain what they "don't get".

If theists aren't special than anyone should be able to follow the method theists claim has allowed them some "spiritual experience", but it doesn't add up. Let's note the social science have observed religious behavior and have explanations why theists feel the eupohia of belief. As noted much of this is chemicals in the brain. Much of it is learned behavior due to social influences. This is why children born to Catholic parents will end up being Catholic themselves, and not Baptist, or Muslim, or Hindu. Science has also revealed the genetics of the human brain as it evolved to be tribal, and the "believing brain" was selected over many tens of thousands of years. Why was it selected? Because early humans who cooperated with the tribe had an advantage in survival. This meant to adopt tribal norms as a way to establish trust and belonging.

This is why today we see so much division among citizens of nations. We see unity when the nation is attacked or threatened, like back in September 11, 2001. Since then we have seen more rift in society and politics as there are fewer national enemies. The Russian invasion of Ukraine has created unity since Russia is our biggest adversary. But now we are seeing some of the far right in Congress saying they want to stop aid for Ukraine, and some are even pro-Russia. We humans have a hard time feeling unified when there is no clear enemy, so there is a motivation to create enemies.

Many of the right wing policies we see these days aim to marginalize groups of citizens, like women and their reproduction rights, trans people, gay marriage, the CRT hysteria that is baseless disinformation, banned books, labeling liberals as socialists/communists, indifference for healthcare reform, etc. Many of these policies are opposed by republicans just because democrats are working to expand more advantages to citizens, with healthcare being the biggest issue. What effect will eliminating Social Security and Medicare have on citizens? It will be a death sentence for many, driving them into poverty and no access to healthcare. That's your Christian nationalism, and how it indicates a complete failure of faith.

You use this forum to vent your hatred for Christians and conservatives. If you ever develop a sincere desire to understand your enemies then the answers are out there.


In an exchange about al-Qaida during the debate, Obama attacked Romney for calling Russia “without question, our No. 1 geopolitical foe” earlier this year.

"Gov. Romney, I'm glad you recognize al-Qaida is a threat, because a few months ago when you were asked what is the biggest geopolitical group facing America, you said Russia, not al-Qaida," Obama said. "You said Russia. And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back. Because the Cold War has been over for 20 years. But Governor, when it comes to our foreign policy, you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s, just like the social policy of the 1950s, and the economic policies of the 1920s."

Romney was right and the Left naive as usual.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Then you really don't believe in what Jesus taught, which should be clear in his "Sermon On the Mount". He wasn't just talking about charity, btw, as he reinforced the necessity of not negating the work of the Great Sanhedrin that mandated help for the poor and the widows, and this shows up in his Parable of the Widow's Mite where he praised her for giving beyond what was required.

I think many tend to try to twist the Bible to fit their pre-existing views.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I think he/she means the abortifacient types.

That's kind of what I was thinking but I'm not entirely sure (s)he's not just talking about birth control?

 

[metis]

I think many tend to try to twist the Bible to fit their pre-existing views.

I agree, and I think many take positions that Jesus would never likely endorse.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You use this forum to vent your hatred for Christians and conservatives. If you ever develop a sincere desire to understand your enemies then the answers are out there.


In an exchange about al-Qaida during the debate, Obama attacked Romney for calling Russia “without question, our No. 1 geopolitical foe” earlier this year.

"Gov. Romney, I'm glad you recognize al-Qaida is a threat, because a few months ago when you were asked what is the biggest geopolitical group facing America, you said Russia, not al-Qaida," Obama said. "You said Russia. And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back. Because the Cold War has been over for 20 years. But Governor, when it comes to our foreign policy, you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s, just like the social policy of the 1950s, and the economic policies of the 1920s."

Romney was right and the Left naive as usual.

Dude, we don't hate you. We don't hate Christians. We don't hate conservatives. Many of them are our friends, family, colleagues and acquaintances.

This poster was sincerely asking you questions, so for you to doubt their sincerity here, seems a bit off, don'tcha think?

If anything, you come off like the hateful person here. Maybe take some time for some self-reflection.

 

[Sand Dancer]

I agree, and I think many take positions that Jesus would never likely endorse.

Worshiping him is more important than following his teachings apparently. It's all about heaven, not being loving and compassionate in life. Actions over beliefs died out generations ago.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Seems very logical.

That's why I'm arguing America's Bill of Rights is nit the same as Canada's, and even inferior to it.
Canada enshrines education as a right for all children. America does not acknowledge this at all and instead gives the parent the right to say no and decide for themselves what kid of life amd education the child will have.

 

[Colt]

Dude, we don't hate you. We don't hate Christians. We don't hate conservatives. Many of them are our friends, family, colleagues and acquaintances.

This poster was sincerely asking you questions, so for you to doubt their sincerity here, seems a bit off, don'tcha think?

If anything, you come off like the hateful person here. Maybe take some time for some self-reflection.

Dude? What, are you in the 7th grade? I wasn't replying to you.

 

[F1fan]

You use this forum to vent your hatred for Christians and conservatives. If you ever develop a sincere desire to understand your enemies then the answers are out there.

False accusation. I'm debating ideas.

In an exchange about al-Qaida during the debate, Obama attacked Romney for calling Russia “without question, our No. 1 geopolitical foe” earlier this year.

I notice conservatives like to call criticism as an attack. This suggests the criticism is not valid or justified. To my mind this is more arrogance by conservatives who seem to think themselves infallible and beyond question. Nope. Conservatives are as flawed as anyone else, and their ideas are open to criticism. Remember how you brought up being open minded? Does that not apply to conservatives?

"Gov. Romney, I'm glad you recognize al-Qaida is a threat, because a few months ago when you were asked what is the biggest geopolitical group facing America, you said Russia, not al-Qaida," Obama said. "You said Russia. And the 1980s are now calling to ask for their foreign policy back. Because the Cold War has been over for 20 years. But Governor, when it comes to our foreign policy, you seem to want to import the foreign policies of the 1980s, just like the social policy of the 1950s, and the economic policies of the 1920s."

Romney was right and the Left naive as usual.

Obama had the wisdom to not provoke and poke the bear. Obama was working towards building Ukraine and eliminating the Russian puppet who was president at the time. It worked, and Ukraine moved more and more towards democracy, and threw out their far right, corrupt leaders.

The rise of the far right in America with MAGA only embolded Russia, but Zelenskee was elected, and this set the stage for the Russian invasion. Note that Russia was moving towards globalization and stability as an economic partner. They had hosted the winter Olympics, and opened a Formula 1 track hosting annual races. Obama and world leaders saw this as the right path. What happened to putin? Who knows. He's lost it in the last decade in ways that could not be predicted. Did Romney know something that Obama didn't, or just make a guess that years laters became a true position?

Let's see if you casn provide any evidence that Romney knew something that Obama didn't.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Makes me wonder what they'd think if they had enough of an understanding of Abraham's God to know Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have a religious mandate of religous socialism to give to the poor, take care of the poor, blessed be the poor. Their god commanded they give to those "selfish leeches" long before any modern state could even have the chance.

I wish Christianity did like Islam and made giving one of the requirements. It's strongly suggested in the Bible, but too bad it's not "giving or hell, pick one." Sometimes you have to do that with people.

 

[Colt]

False accusation. I'm debating ideas.


I notice conservatives like to call criticism as an attack. This suggests the criticism is not valid or justified. To my mind this is more arrogance by conservatives who seem to think themselves infallible and beyond question. Nope. Conservatives are as flawed as anyone else, and their ideas are open to criticism. Remember how you brought up being open minded? Does that not apply to conservatives?


Obama had the wisdom to not provoke and poke the bear. Obama was working towards building Ukraine and eliminating the Russian puppet who was president at the time. It worked, and Ukraine moved more and more towards democracy, and threw out their far right, corrupt leaders.

The rise of the far right in America with MAGA only embolded Russia, but Zelenskee was elected, and this set the stage for the Russian invasion. Note that Russia was moving towards globalization and stability as an economic partner. They had hosted the winter Olympics, and opened a Formula 1 track hosting annual races. Obama and world leaders saw this as the right path. What happened to putin? Who knows. He's lost it in the last decade in ways that could not be predicted. Did Romney know something that Obama didn't, or just make a guess that years laters became a true position?

Let's see if you casn provide any evidence that Romney knew something that Obama didn't.

The election of a frail senior citizen beyond his prime is what emboldened Putin, seems it's the Left who thinks they can do no wrong.