Religious Nationalism in the US

[Kenny]

Or do you? That signed draft was actually after a few revisions later, with prior versions not mention the Christian principles thing. It was eventually added thay hoping it would help get it through to them (Muslim nations and especially their privateers) that the US is not a formally Christian nation and as it wasn't established on principles it has no interest in that Christian vs Muslim crap.

Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes, and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own, nor those of my fellow- citizens at large less than either. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency; and in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their united government the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities from which the event has resulted can not be compared with the means by which most governments have been established without some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me, I trust, in thinking that there are none under the influence of which the proceedings of a new and free government can more auspiciously commence.

George Washington

President George Washington's First Inaugural Speech (1789)

No... As you have demonstrated, the don't really teach US history any more.

 

[The Hammer]

You need to learn more about that history and not just repeat what others say.

I do know the history of separatists fleeing a Christina monarchy to found a new nation on freedom equality and justice.

Is that what you mean?

 

[The Hammer]

Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government

This isn't a Christian sentiment.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station, it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official act my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the universe, who presides in the councils of nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that His benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the people of the United States a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes, and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good, I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own, nor those of my fellow- citizens at large less than either. No people can be bound to acknowledge and adore the Invisible Hand which conducts the affairs of men more than those of the United States. Every step by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency; and in the important revolution just accomplished in the system of their united government the tranquil deliberations and voluntary consent of so many distinct communities from which the event has resulted can not be compared with the means by which most governments have been established without some return of pious gratitude, along with an humble anticipation of the future blessings which the past seem to presage. These reflections, arising out of the present crisis, have forced themselves too strongly on my mind to be suppressed. You will join with me, I trust, in thinking that there are none under the influence of which the proceedings of a new and free government can more auspiciously commence.

George Washington

President George Washington's First Inaugural Speech (1789)

No... As you have demonstrated, the don't really teach US history any more.

That doesn't actually state your god but includes a lot of Masonic lingo used in ways common for Deists.
Even Thomas Paine frequently used terms like Almighty, including to rant about how Christianity is vulgar and offensive to the Almighty. Same thing with Jefferson and Franklin. They definitely did believe in a deity, but it was Deism and often saturated with Masonic architect imagery.

 

[Revoltingest]

Nobody said it was founded on religion. It was founded on Christian principles.

I ignore arguments about what religions the framers had.
What matters is the document they created & instituted.
It looks pretty darn secular.

 

[Kenny]

This isn't a Christian sentiment.

Of course it is.

 

[Kenny]

This isn't a Christian sentiment.

On top of that:
First Prayer of the Continental Congress, 1774
Courtesy of the Rector, Church Wardens and Vestrymen of Christ Church, Philadelphia" class="thickbox" style="color: rgb(114, 114, 114);"> The Prayer in the First Congress, A.D. 1774
O Lord our Heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech Thee, on these our American States, who have fled to Thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent only on Thee. To Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give. Take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them wisdom in Council and valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their Cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle!

Be Thou present, O God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst the people. Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior.

Amen.

Reverend Jacob Duché
Rector of Christ Church of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
September 7, 1774, 9 o’clock a.m.

 

[The Hammer]

Of course it is.

Nope. Nothing about Jesus, The Bible™, Jehovah or YHWH. Otherwise it's just generic religious sentiment. I believe in an Almighty All-Father; amongst others of course.

 

[The Hammer]

On top of that:
First Prayer of the Continental Congress, 1774
Courtesy of the Rector, Church Wardens and Vestrymen of Christ Church, Philadelphia" class="thickbox" style="color: rgb(114, 114, 114);"> The Prayer in the First Congress, A.D. 1774
O Lord our Heavenly Father, high and mighty King of kings, and Lord of lords, who dost from thy throne behold all the dwellers on earth and reignest with power supreme and uncontrolled over all the Kingdoms, Empires and Governments; look down in mercy, we beseech Thee, on these our American States, who have fled to Thee from the rod of the oppressor and thrown themselves on Thy gracious protection, desiring to be henceforth dependent only on Thee. To Thee have they appealed for the righteousness of their cause; to Thee do they now look up for that countenance and support, which Thou alone canst give. Take them, therefore, Heavenly Father, under Thy nurturing care; give them wisdom in Council and valor in the field; defeat the malicious designs of our cruel adversaries; convince them of the unrighteousness of their Cause and if they persist in their sanguinary purposes, of own unerring justice, sounding in their hearts, constrain them to drop the weapons of war from their unnerved hands in the day of battle!

Be Thou present, O God of wisdom, and direct the councils of this honorable assembly; enable them to settle things on the best and surest foundation. That the scene of blood may be speedily closed; that order, harmony and peace may be effectually restored, and truth and justice, religion and piety, prevail and flourish amongst the people. Preserve the health of their bodies and vigor of their minds; shower down on them and the millions they here represent, such temporal blessings as Thou seest expedient for them in this world and crown them with everlasting glory in the world to come. All this we ask in the name and through the merits of Jesus Christ, Thy Son and our Savior.

Amen.

Reverend Jacob Duché
Rector of Christ Church of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
September 7, 1774, 9 o’clock a.m.

US Founding July 4th 1776. And not by this Reverend.

 

[Kenny]

US Founding July 4th 1776. And not by this Reverend.

It is the outgrowth for 1776.

You also should check the Constitution of each individual state... all Christian.

 

[The Hammer]

It is the outgrowth for 1776.

You also should check the Constitution of each individual state... all Christian.

So we should be ruled only by Christian morality?

 

[The Hammer]

It is the outgrowth for 1776.

You also should check the Constitution of each individual state... all Christian.

No allowances for any other religions?

 

[Kenny]

So we should be ruled only by Christian morality?

Love is the key, isn't it?

 

[sun rise]

It is the outgrowth for 1776.

You also should check the Constitution of each individual state... all Christian.

When I was growing up, my family and I were discriminated against by Christians because we were Jewish.

But if I had time, I'd read all of them to challenge you on that claim that they are Christian (enact Christian theology).

 

[Kenny]

No allowances for any other religions?

That's where people misunderstand. A Christian nation doesn't mean "YOU MUST BE A CHRISTIAN". Christianity is a free-will choice and allows you to worship God how you want or not have a god if you so desire.

 

[Kenny]

When I was growing up, my family and I were discriminated against by Christians because we were Jewish.

But if I had time, I'd read all of them to challenge you on that claim that they are Christian (enact Christian theology).

Yes, Christian history is a checkered history and I am sorry for that. It isn't scriptural.

But, as a Jew, I'm sure you understand that even the Jewish nation has a checkered past and didn't exemplify YHWH the way YHWH want the Jewish nation to do.

It doesn't change the reality of the TaNaKh and its message nor the message of Jesus.

 

[The Hammer]

That's where people misunderstand. A Christian nation doesn't mean "YOU MUST BE A CHRISTIAN". Christianity is a free-will choice and allows you to worship God how you want or not have a god if you so desire.

That's exactly what it means if those are how all the laws are based, as you say. It is inherently Christian. It means you just think Christian (at least societally). That's how Cultures works.

And imposing things like anti-abortion into law. It's inherently Christian law, in the guise of "pro-life".

Edit: but that's much of a separate argument.

 

[Sand Dancer]

'More than half of Republicans support Christian nationalism, according to a new survey"

This sounds like a terrible terrible position for the US to currently be in. We are not and have never been a "Christian Nation".

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1156...rt-christian-nationalism-according-to-a-new-s


Do you support religious nationalism? If so, why? If not, why?

No. I prefer to choose my own religion.

 

[Colt]

'More than half of Republicans support Christian nationalism, according to a new survey"

This sounds like a terrible terrible position for the US to currently be in. We are not and have never been a "Christian Nation".

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/14/1156...rt-christian-nationalism-according-to-a-new-s


Do you support religious nationalism? If so, why? If not, why?

No! But we already have dominant secular totalitarianism which is manifested in “woke” ideology.

If America is a Christian nation then it’s functionally agnostic. Functional agnosticism is when one believes in God but lives as if they don’t.

 

[F1fan]

No! But we already have secular totalitarianism which is manifested in “woke” ideology.

Called democracy. Of course Christian nationalists aren't a fan.