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Religious participation and nonbelief

Songbird

She rules her life like a bird in flight
I’m not a Christian, but I like church. I like the music, the socializing, the social causes, the smorgasbord of activities to choose from, the potlucks, the community, the network of support. It’s where I grew up, met my husband, and commemorated events. It’s where I had the platform to perform from an early age, and it’s the vehicle that led to spending a summer in Tanzania when I was 18.

I’m not alone. I’ve met people with a range of beliefs who attend churches for similar reasons. One atheist I know is his congregation's organist. The enjoyment and fulfillment he derives from church surpasses why he’d participate in an establishment based on a philosophy he doesn’t adhere to.

It would be nice to join a community that is for me more intellectually honest. But there is frankly nothing like a religious group. There is nothing else that competes with the social offerings, the unifying communal effect evoked by intense belief, or the level of support, at least to this degree. There are many exceptions, but I’m addressing the majority.

Richard Robinson wrote in 1975 that “we need to create and spread symbols and procedures that will confirm our intentions without involving us in intellectual dishonesty.”

Any ideas how to go about doing that? Is it possible to replace religion?

And how do you feel about a nonbeliever joining or participating in your church, synagogue, mosque, etc.? What about in a leadership role?

I ask because when I told a few people from my church about my deconversion a few years ago, they were grief-stricken and shocked. One suggested I lay low, not participate in Bible studies or discussions. I got the impression Christianity is an army that kills its wounded. Got doubts? Here’s the door. But that’s another discussion.

I’d like to hear your thoughts. It’s good sometimes to crack open the crunchy shell and let out the gooey inside.
 
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TheKnight

Guardian of Life
I’m not a Christian, but I like church. I like the music, the socializing, the social causes, the smorgasbord of activities to choose from, the potlucks, the community, the network of support. It’s where I grew up, met my husband, and commemorated events. It’s where I had the platform to perform from an early age, and it’s the vehicle that led to spending a summer in Tanzania when I was 18.

I’m not alone. I’ve met people with a range of beliefs who attend churches for similar reasons. One atheist I know is the congregation's organist. The enjoyment and fulfillment he derives from church surpasses why he’d participate in an establishment based on a philosophy he doesn’t adhere to.

It would be nice to join a community that is for me more intellectually honest. But there is frankly nothing like a religious group. There is nothing else that competes with the social offerings, the unifying communal effect evoked by intense belief, or the level of support, at least to this degree. There are many exceptions, but I’m addressing the majority.

Richard Robinson wrote in 1975 that “we need to create and spread symbols and procedures that will confirm our intentions without involving us in intellectual dishonesty.”

Any ideas how to go about doing that? Is it possible to replace religion?

And how do you feel about a nonbeliever joining or participating in your church, synagogue, mosque, etc.? What about in a leadership role?

I ask because when I told a few people from my church about my deconversion a few years ago, they were grief-stricken and shocked. One suggested I lay low, not participate in Bible studies or discussions. I got the impression Christianity is an army that kills its wounded. Got doubts? Here’s the door. But that’s another discussion.

I’d like to hear your thoughts. It’s good sometimes to crack open the crunchy shell and let out the gooey inside.

You aren't looking for a replacement for religion, but rather a replacement for a religious community. I would imagine there are secular communities with similar modes of operation, but I suppose it would have to be in dedication to some idea to exist.

As far as having non-religious in leadership positions, I think it's absolutely unacceptable. The position is a religious position and should be filled by someone that actually believes it.

That being said, how do you determine religiosity? It varies from religion to religion.
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Songbird, you might want to explore your local UU congregations. Sounds like they'd provide what you're looking for and be happy to have you. :)
 

waitasec

Veteran Member
I sing along, and during prayer I stand there, sometimes looking down.

maybe i missed this, but are they aware of your beliefs, or lack thereof?
i'm guessing they do since the organist is an atheist...

do you get the feeling they are hoping you will one day see the light and convert?
 

Songbird

She rules her life like a bird in flight
You aren't looking for a replacement for religion, but rather a replacement for a religious community. I would imagine there are secular communities with similar modes of operation, but I suppose it would have to be in dedication to some idea to exist.

Yes, that's what I meant. A replacement for all the things religious communities provide.

I suppose my main question is how to create or observe rituals to the extent religion does? What are some current nonreligious ceremonies growing in popularity?
 

Songbird

She rules her life like a bird in flight
maybe i missed this, but are they aware of your beliefs, or lack thereof?
i'm guessing they do since the organist is an atheist...

do you get the feeling they are hoping you will one day see the light and convert?

Only a handful of people know my position, and they feel awkward around me. If anyone else knows, they haven't told me. And yeah, they hope I'll come back to Christianity.

The organist I know is at a different church. I don't know if they're aware of his nonbelief.
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
Yes, that's what I meant. A replacement for all the things religious communities provide.

I suppose my main question is how to create or observe rituals to the extent religion does? What are some current nonreligious ceremonies growing in popularity?

Why would the non-religious have similar rituals or ceremonies without also being a religion? The ceremonies aren't done for giggles, but because people actually believe there is spiritual value in them.
 
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Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
Why would the non-religious have similar rituals or ceremonies without also being a religion? The ceremonies aren't done for sh!ts and giggles, but because people actually believe there is spiritual value in them.
Ritual is important, religious or otherwise.

Welcoming newborns, coming of age, funerals, etc... These things are vital to community, and sorely lacking outside of religion.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
Why would the non-religious have similar rituals or ceremonies without also being a religion? The ceremonies aren't done for sh!ts and giggles, but because people actually believe there is spiritual value in them.
One can find spiritual value in religious ritual while leaving open the question of God. Kaplan comes to mind.
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
Ritual is important, religious or otherwise.

Welcoming newborns, coming of age, funerals, etc... These things are vital to community, and sorely lacking outside of religion.

But a non-religious ritual? What use is the ritual unless it actually means something? And if it does mean something, then how is it not religious?


One can find spiritual value in religious ritual while leaving open the question of God. Kaplan comes to mind.

I'm sure they can. My point is why would one assume there are non-religious rituals that are comparable to religious ones that could be accurately termed non-religious?

If anything you'd call it outside of mainstream religion, but not non-religious.
 

Songbird

She rules her life like a bird in flight
Why would the non-religious have similar rituals or ceremonies without also being a religion? The ceremonies aren't done for sh!ts and giggles, but because people actually believe there is spiritual value in them.

I think ritual is important to many people. And it can be isolating to hold different beliefs from your family, so continuing to participate is a way to stay connected. I suspect many people find no spiritual value in ceremony but find another kind of fulfillment.
 

Songbird

She rules her life like a bird in flight
Songbird, you might want to explore your local UU congregations. Sounds like they'd provide what you're looking for and be happy to have you. :)

If that were an option in my area, I'd be there. :p
 

Storm

ThrUU the Looking Glass
But a non-religious ritual? What use is the ritual unless it actually means something? And if it does mean something, then how is it not religious?
Are you saying that funerals are meaningless if not religious?
 

TheKnight

Guardian of Life
I think ritual is important to many people. And it can be isolating to hold different beliefs from your family, so continuing to participate is a way to stay connected. I suspect many people find no spiritual value in ceremony but find another kind of fulfillment.

I agree that non-religious people find fulfillment in already established religious rituals. What I wonder is why would non-religious people have their own a-religious ceremonies unless they thought the ceremony had some sort of deeper significance?

I mean, is that sort of fantastical? To make up a ceremony for something you don't actually believe is significant? And if you do, then why say it isn't religious?
 

elmarna

Well-Known Member
I hope you figure it out. Being honest is the 1st step in finding what you are looking for!
Perhaps the UU church may be a good place to look.
Remember - churchs are fellowships not formations.
fellowship= like minds coming together
formation= people of all perspectives coming together for a common cause
 
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