Religious war is coming to America....

[waitasec]

one wonders why a person justifies their opinion with more opinions?

 

[jasonwill2]

1Robin,

The moment you said "what's so hard about it? Sinning is easy" is the moment I'll never listen to a ******* word of yours again. My path isn't about "sinning", its not even about hedonism.

Take your ignorance and projections elsewhere because I'm not talking to you again. It's about self-development, Kheper, self-transformation, and spiritual growth and independence. It's not about "sinning".

I'm done with you.

No matter what source your information comes from it is less reliable in every category than the Bible.

I can't even take you seriously anymore.

 

[1robin]

1Robin,

The moment you said "what's so hard about it? Sinning is easy" is the moment I'll never listen to a ******* word of yours again. My path isn't about "sinning", its not even about hedonism.

You just do not get it apparently. I do not think you know much at all about Satan. I use the most reliable text on the subject in human history and it says Satan is the original sinner and leads men to do so as well. I am not constrained by your view and it's apparent lack of any justification besides preference.

Take your ignorance and projections elsewhere because I'm not talking to you again. It's about self-development, Kheper, self-transformation, and spiritual growth and independence. It's not about "sinning".

I'm done with you.



I can't even take you seriously anymore.

This is typical. Make a bunch of points that have no justification when someone won't buy it reject them and any truth that is inconvenient. Rock on!!

 

[waitasec]

You just do not get it apparently. I do not think you know much at all about Satan. I use the most reliable text on the subject in human history and it says Satan is the original sinner and leads men to do so as well. I am not constrained by your view and it's apparent lack of any justification besides preference.

This is typical. Make a bunch of points that have no justification when someone won't buy it reject them and any truth that is inconvenient. Rock on!!

:biglaugh:

i smell something fishy it's the scent of proselytizing
robin1 :tsk:

 

[Shadow Wolf]

What kind of garbage is this? None of this is justified by the Bible. If you wish to evaluate a teacher why are you picking out only the dissobedient students who never show up to class. A teacher should be evaluaded by his sincere students. The actions I described are justified in the Quran. The ones you mentioned are not justified by the bible.

I already mentioned verses that do mention when you should kill someone, such as a disobedient child. And you claim they are all taken out of context, which is what many Muslims will claim you are doing with the Quran.

Your statement has no basis in reality. Humans all have a limit.

The body has a breaking point and limit. Mine has been pushed, and broken, many times. But it is the spirit of someone who is strong in will and in character that cannot be broken.

Perhaps your pride does not allow a similar stance for you.

No, it's because I know that when you die, it is only a matter of minutes before decay begins to start, and only a matter of moments before organ damage becomes severe enough, especially in the brain, that a person would not be able to function.

What does that girl have to do with anything? School used to be a place where God was acknowledged. It was a peacefull orderly productive place. Liberals stripped God out and now we have a school shooting a month, teenage pregnancy rates that sky rocketed, gang and drug activity, and teachers who quit in frustration. There is no such thing as neutral. If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice - Rush. There is no hero in neutrality - Rush.

First, I'm in college so if someone is pregnant it's not like it's a high schooler that is pregnant. And public schools have such a high rate of pregnancy, here in America, because we do not teach kids proper sex ed. If you look at nations that do, such as several European nations, they have a much lower pregnancy rate. There are shootings because it is far too easy to acquire guns. And I am very well aware that decision to not make a decision is still a decision. However in my position, I respect school as a place of neutrality out of respect to the believes of those around me, unless the class is designed for debate. If they don't talk about theirs, then I wont talk about mine. I'd much rather focus on similarities than differences anyways.

What a despicable statement.

She is proud to be a follower of a faith that she knows very little about to the point she has never even opened it's sacred text. Such blind faith is partly how people get swept up into cult movements such as Manson's family or The People's Temple.

In other words Satanism gratifies your desire to be un accountable. It feeds pride and has a self centered point of view. It appeals to the anarchist and rebellious nature. It is like going downhill, easy.

Actually many Satanist are some of the most accountable and reliable people you will find. And unlike religious people who will often blame a bogey man for tempting them, A Satanist will acknowledge that their shortcomings are on them.

That is why God is so often appealed to in order to justify morality in any real and needed sence.

God is appealed to because no matter the name or form of the god, there aren't many people willing to question, challenge, and defy god.

I know you dissagree, and I also know you can't prove your case.

And you have done nothing to prove yours except for using your own religious dogma as evidence. Others have demonstrated that god is not needed for morality, it is not needed to justify morality, and that morals do vary from place to place.

Human history is a shining example of justice and virtue.

We must be reading totally different history books then, because everything I have ever read shows that human history is littered with violence, warfare, oppression, and many other actions that seem to be only justified from the perspective of those ordering them. Even Chinese culture, which has deep roots in Confucianism and Buddhism have very violent histories.

Only if for some reason you have swallowed Catholic tradition. Hell is widely believed to be future destruction of the soul. As in the scripture that says to fear the one who can destroy the soul in Hell. God gave us a soul, if we then use it to reject him then he gives us exactly what we chose. We get what we want. God is omnipresent, the only place he does not exist is non existance. That is where we eventually go if we reject him. There is nothing unjust about that. It is in fact perfect justice. __________________

Many denominations teach that Hell is either a place of eternal seperation from god, or a place of eternal torment and suffering, and there are many other believes and many of them are not Catholic.

This is typical. Make a bunch of points that have no justification when someone won't buy it reject them and any truth that is inconvenient. Rock on!!

You have used nothing as justification except that you feel that it is necessary to adopt your personal interpretation of the Bible.

And BTW, God still isn't punishing me, but rather today has been a very good day and many several positive things happened to me today. If he wants to strike me down he can go ahead, but I don't see that happening.

 

[1robin]

I already mentioned verses that do mention when you should kill someone, such as a disobedient child. And you claim they are all taken out of context, which is what many Muslims will claim you are doing with the Quran.

I have no idea why I made a reference to garbage in the statement you addressed. Anyway. My bad. Not a single verse that applies outside Israel ata time period after 2000 yaers ago. The Bible and the Quran both have violent verses. The Bibles concern Israel over 2000 years ago and are very specific and if God is real have very good justification. The Quran's are many times over more numourus and many have no specific application but have a seemingly open ended application. That makes a huge difference.

The body has a breaking point and limit. Mine has been pushed, and broken, many times. But it is the spirit of someone who is strong in will and in character that cannot be broken.

Yes it can. In fact people can become so phsychologically shattered as to become automoton's.

No, it's because I know that when you die, it is only a matter of minutes before decay begins to start, and only a matter of moments before organ damage becomes severe enough, especially in the brain, that a person would not be able to function.

I do not see the relevance of this.

First, I'm in college so if someone is pregnant it's not like it's a high schooler that is pregnant. And public schools have such a high rate of pregnancy, here in America, because we do not teach kids proper sex ed.

Then why didn't it exist in the period before God was kicked out? Sex ed if present was basic and primitive back then. In fact your only pointing out a symptom of the larger disease of lack of faith.

If you look at nations that do, such as several European nations, they have a much lower pregnancy rate.

What without looking is the pregnency rate of any high school in any european country?

There are shootings because it is far too easy to acquire guns

Guns do not have wills. Guns were far easier to get before we ejected God from schools. In fact I had a shotgun in my truck in highschool. You probably won't believe this but the principle in 8th grade let me bring a pellet pistol to school and sell it in a box of course. Man those were the times. So far you contentions aren't adding up.

And I am very well aware that decision to not make a decision is still a decision. However in my position, I respect school as a place of neutrality out of respect to the believes of those around me, unless the class is designed for debate. If they don't talk about theirs, then I wont talk about mine. I'd much rather focus on similarities than differences anyways.

I have no problem considering the school room as not for making sermons in. However I do take eception with suggesting a simple statement about a persons faith as being deserving of ridicule. I can't stand Islam but would have no problem if a girl got up and said she believed in it. I like a change of pace. I even dated one and my sister's house mate is a muslim.

 

[1robin]

She is proud to be a follower of a faith that she knows very little about to the point she has never even opened it's sacred text. Such blind faith is partly how people get swept up into cult movements such as Manson's family or The People's Temple.

So I guess all the poor people in third world areas should give up hope when the missionary comes around because you have determined that God can't save anyone unless they are a theologian. Why are the thousands of things idiot's say every day not being mentioned but only what a Christian said? What was the story again? How do you know she never read the Bible? Your cult comments are true but not applicable unles you knew more about the girl.

Actually many Satanist are some of the most accountable and reliable people you will find. And unlike religious people who will often blame a bogey man for tempting them, A Satanist will acknowledge that their shortcomings are on them.

How did Stalin and Satan get in the same paragraph? Actually in our secular culture there is a fast growing trend to not believe wrong even exists. If you kill 20 people it is society that failed you. If you are kicked out of school the parent sues the teacher for actually doing what they should have. If someone says anything we do not like then where are the lawyers. There was a psychologist years ago that killed himself because he said his profession had dismissed sin and had become an impotent treater of symtoms with no possible cure. Guns are blamed and the killers set free. Death row inmates have liberal fan bases attempting to get them off death row in between argueing for the right to kill unborn babies. As God is rejected the moral scene becomes more and more chaotic.

God is appealed to because no matter the name or form of the god, there aren't many people willing to question, challenge, and defy god.

Not hardly, I think Christianity is about the only subject that can be criticized without the political correctness police coming for you. It was appealed to as the only foundation that fully justifies what was necessary.

And you have done nothing to prove yours except for using your own religious dogma as evidence. Others have demonstrated that god is not needed for morality, it is not needed to justify morality, and that morals do vary from place to place.

Then it should not be hard for you to tell me how you can prove that Hitler's actions were actually wrong? If you are correct I can't think of a simpler question.

We must be reading totally different history books then, because everything I have ever read shows that human history is littered with violence, warfare, oppression, and many other actions that seem to be only justified from the perspective of those ordering them. Even Chinese culture, which has deep roots in Confucianism and Buddhism have very violent histories.

That was my point I was being sarcastic. Humanity can't govern it's self God has been the only restraining influence on our moral nihilism. Look at even civilised ancient Greece leaving babies out to die. The concept of compassion does not appear on any list of Greek virtue. It is actually a vice of sorts. Look a Rome's brutal conquests and total depravity. Persia's attempts to enslave the world. Man without God would destroy himself. We have come to the brink even with God.

Many denominations teach that Hell is either a place of eternal seperation from god, or a place of eternal torment and suffering, and there are many other believes and many of them are not Catholic

That is what I said. Hell is eternal seperation from God. Or BASED on Catholic tradition eternal suffering which makes no sence but may be true.

You have used nothing as justification except that you feel that it is necessary to adopt your personal interpretation of the Bible.

Once the credability of the Bible is established and it has been for over a thousand years then it's claims are then able to be discussed as a likely reality. I did not think it necessary to state that. There is simply no category by which the claims of theological and historical texts are evaluated by which the Bible fails to measure up astoundingly reliable. You do not want to challenge this with me. For example the greatest expert on evidence and law in human history (Simon Greeleaf) who literally wrote the book on evidence has said the Bible more that meets every requirement of modern law and the historical method. Credentials don't get any higher.

And BTW, God still isn't punishing me, but rather today has been a very good day and many several positive things happened to me today. If he wants to strike me down he can go ahead, but I don't see that happening.

It is almost as if God knew you would say that.

Why do so many evil people prosper?
The fact that we will “reap what we sow” is certain (2 Corinthians 9:6). But reaping for our sins and good works primarily comes at the end of time, not necessarily in this life. God sometimes allows us to experience the terrible impact of our sin in this life, but he reserves much of his judgment for the end. Therefore, in this life we sometimes see righteous people suffer and wicked people prosper. While we don’t know all the reasons for this, the Bible does tell us that he shows mercy even to the wicked (Psalms 145:9), giving sinners like us opportunities to turn from our sin and follow Jesus as our Savior and Lord. Because of God’s mercy, he does not settle all his accounts in this life, nor does he always repay us as we deserve. Additionally, God gives us over to the things we love. Many have chosen to love money, comfort and the things of this world more than they love God and others. As a result, they may prosper—but only for a season (Psalm 37).
New International Version (©1984)
Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him; do not fret when men succeed in their ways, when they carry out their wicked schemes.
New Living Translation (©2007)
But I am not surprised! Even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light.
Generous Giving : Questions about Prosperity and Poverty
2 Corinthians 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.
If sin isn't actually bad and has no consequence then I guess the nut houses are not full of people who did one to many hits of acid. I guess the grave yards are not full of drunk drivers and their victums. And the Jails are not full of people who did what God said not to do 3500 years ago. Consequence exists in the very fabric of nature and spritualism.

 

[jasonwill2]

Actually many Satanist are some of the most accountable and reliable people you will find. And unlike religious people who will often blame a bogey man for tempting them, A Satanist will acknowledge that their shortcomings are on them.

:yes::bow: frubals for you =D

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Yes it can. In fact people can become so phsychologically shattered as to become automoton's.

It can happen. But the stronger in will, the harder it is to do. And someone that is willing to die on principles can become unbreakable. Such as Socrates who chose death over a life over the alternatives.

I do not see the relevance of this.

The relevance is that when someone dies, when their heart stops pumping blood, all it takes is a few minutes for brain damage to set in, and the people who are resuscitated almost always show indications of brain trauma. But if the person is truly dead, as in no brain activity, then they are dead. There is no coming back. Thus no one has ever died, visited Hell, and returned to tell the story.

If sin isn't actually bad and has no consequence then I guess the nut houses are not full of people who did one to many hits of acid. I guess the grave yards are not full of drunk drivers and their victums. And the Jails are not full of people who did what God said not to do 3500 years ago. Consequence exists in the very fabric of nature and spritualism.

The first two, it isn't sin but intoxication and organ damage that causes such things. And people are in jail for many different reasons. In America most people are in for nothing more than petty drug charges. Often times someone who is innocent is even wrongfully imprisoned. And that our legal system is so heavily biased towards racial minorities, especially black people, I would hope that god has nothing to do with it.

 

[1robin]

It can happen. But the stronger in will, the harder it is to do. And someone that is willing to die on principles can become unbreakable. Such as Socrates who chose death over a life over the alternatives.

The stronger in will just require more pushing to break. I do not think there is even the slightest chance a single person can withstand what modern interrogators can do if they are allowed. It is simply a matter of time before the badest dude that ever lived is a whimpering child like mess. Imagine what an infinate God could do if he desired. This issue is depressing. I do not even like considering what I know exists in the realm of torture. I say we drop this.

The relevance is that when someone dies, when their heart stops pumping blood, all it takes is a few minutes for brain damage to set in, and the people who are resuscitated almost always show indications of brain trauma. But if the person is truly dead, as in no brain activity, then they are dead. There is no coming back. Thus no one has ever died, visited Hell, and returned to tell the story.

Oh, this concerns NDEs. Actually people pronounced dead throughout history have come back, sometimes days later. They had such a problem with this just a few decades ago that coffins many times had bells on them that could be rung by anyone that woke up in the grave. These accounts are endless. There have even been experiments designed to verify this. THere is a child who went to heaven and came back a described someone that spoke with him there. His parents were shocked to find out it was the childs grabdfather that died before he was born and there were no pictures the kid had ever seen. The book about him is a best seller and he has been on many shows.

The first two, it isn't sin but intoxication and organ damage that causes such things.

There are countless pitfalls to drugs and drinking that have no relationship to organ failure.

And people are in jail for many different reasons. In America most people are in for nothing more than petty drug charges. Often times someone who is innocent is even wrongfully imprisoned. And that our legal system is so heavily biased towards racial minorities, especially black people, I would hope that god has nothing to do with it.

Our jails are full because we have a sin problem. There have been millions of Kids scared for life because of divorce, misstreatment, adultery, and neglect. What ever God called sin is destructive. Is your defence actually that the jails are full of innocent people? Whatever it's flaws there is no concievable better system than our justice system. Perfect, no. Geared in every instance to allow every oppportunity for an innocent person to prove it.

 

[1robin]

Actually many Satanist are some of the most accountable and reliable people you will find. And unlike religious people who will often blame a bogey man for tempting them, A Satanist will acknowledge that their shortcomings are on them.

I never said there were not many "good" Satanists. I defend the Bible. I believe what it claims. I debate concerning concepts not individuals. The Bible says Satan is the father of lies, the accuser of the elect, the tormentor, the father of sin, and the most malevolent force in the universe. I believe that. I believe he leads people in many ways. Some seem like good things, some appeal to sinfull gratification, some appeal to our desire to not be accountable, some appeal to our desire for power, Some to money, and some look good at first until you trust him and then when the time is right and he turns on a person they can't get out. There are books on the issue. There are hundreds of testimonies by people who got in and almost didn't get out of his grip. A satanist may be good but in the absence of any compelling reason to not do so I believe they are following the most evil creature to ever exist. I am required to have the courage of my convictions and I maintain and will always maintain (if I still believe) what I have said on the issue of Satan. People are perfectly free to believe whatever they want. I am suprised to find the Satanist community so touchy. It some how isn't intuitive.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Oh, this concerns NDEs. Actually people pronounced dead throughout history have come back, sometimes days later

Yes, but they aren't actually dead. A Hoodoo ritual poisons someone with a substance that contains puffer fish, and the poisoning has had people pronounced dead, but obviously they weren't actually dead.

 

[1robin]

Yes, but they aren't actually dead. A Hoodoo ritual poisons someone with a substance that contains puffer fish, and the poisoning has had people pronounced dead, but obviously they weren't actually dead.

Explaining what happens in a Hoodoo ritual, whatever that is, is no license to write off literally thounsands and thousands of cases where there was no poison issue. Neither does it explain all the things seen and known by the people. Some completely under anastesia have described all kinds of thing that happened when the died on the table in the room, out of the room, and in other locations that turned out to be true. I do not claim that they are a fact but I also know they can't be dismissed.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Explaining what happens in a Hoodoo ritual, whatever that is, is no license to write off literally thounsands and thousands of cases where there was no poison issue. Neither does it explain all the things seen and known by the people. Some completely under anastesia have described all kinds of thing that happened when the died on the table in the room, out of the room, and in other locations that turned out to be true. I do not claim that they are a fact but I also know they can't be dismissed.

That is not the only way people have been mistakenly pronounced dead. There is also a condition in which the heart beats as little as 1 beat per hour. But the fact is that people do not die and live to tell about it, at least not yet. And even if people do, I would find it doubtful that the person would be able to experience an afterlife that they would be able to remember because their brain was not there to record the event and make it available for recall.

 

[1robin]

That is not the only way people have been mistakenly pronounced dead. There is also a condition in which the heart beats as little as 1 beat per hour. But the fact is that people do not die and live to tell about it, at least not yet. And even if people do, I would find it doubtful that the person would be able to experience an afterlife that they would be able to remember because their brain was not there to record the event and make it available for recall.

How does the brain live on one beat per hour? You have a very simplistic and narrow view concerning this issue, You seem to unjustifiably dismiss the fact that almost every culture that has ever existed believes in a soul, and also some type of after life. Usually things that universal have some basis in fact. There is no way you can know what you are claiming. I admit I can't know what I am either. The diffrence is I admit it. We have an understanding concening what happened in these NDE or coming back from the Dead cases that at best explains 1%. That is not enough to draw any conclusion. I am very skeptical and reject any actual alien sightings, 90% of all healings, In fact 90% of any supernatural claims. However there is no way to at this time claim we know that many people have not come back from what we call death.

 

[Barrackubus]

What is so funny, is the ritual you are discribing is done in Haiti with some elements of the puffer fish, however it is not absolutelty neccessary that the fish is needed by the bokur or sorcerer. I have an.arguement that suggest that same ritual was performed to.bring jesus back from.the.dead....

 

[no-body]

I stopped listening when "Obama is a sekkkret muslim" came up. The man brews and drinks his own beer, what further proof do you need? I'm sure it's all a conspiracy though.

This is like some hopped up even more retarded version of the turner diaries but with religion.

 

[1robin]

What is so funny, is the ritual you are discribing is done in Haiti with some elements of the puffer fish, however it is not absolutelty neccessary that the fish is needed by the bokur or sorcerer. I have an.arguement that suggest that same ritual was performed to.bring jesus back from.the.dead....

Why would you think that a carribean ritual that was practiced in the 18th century would have been done in 1st century Israel? Especially considering that ever single witness doesn't mention any thing concerning that. Why is this bizarre and extremely unlikely idea prefferable to the simple one given by every witness and consistent with know history?

 

[1robin]

I stopped listening when "Obama is a sekkkret muslim" came up. The man brews and drinks his own beer, what further proof do you need? I'm sure it's all a conspiracy though.

This is like some hopped up even more retarded version of the turner diaries but with religion.

Not that I care but doesn't this belong in another thread. I do not think he is a Muslim. I do not think he is anything. He is whatever he needs to be to cling to power. He also hates what America has traditionally been.

 

[no-body]

He also hates what America has traditionally been.

Considering what America has traditionally been, this is a good thing.