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Religious war is coming to America....

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
How do you know? The point is that in Islam those actions as well as dragging ambassaders and civilian workers bodies through the streets, condemning teachers to death for naming a class teddy bear Muhammad, showing the injustice of a trailer made for a film on u-tube by commiting the far far worse sin of killing people who had nothing to do with it, and the death penalty for leaving Islam as a state sanctioned reality ARE justified by the Quran. You will not find a single scripture that can be used for anything like this in the Bible. We have no striking off the heads of the infidels verses.
Do you need more examples of Christians that behave badly? Every walk of life has its bad apples. Or do need some examples of positive things that Muslims have done? What about all the Muslims who live in America, or the increase in converts after the 9/11 attacks, but yet these people are just like anyone else.

So by your system I have to watch my neibor torture a child because I am not being attacked. Just like you seem to imply that the Hebrews should have left the Cannanites to walling up Children in buildings alive and making them walk through fire. This kind of equivocation and chaos is exactly what I mean. My beliefs allow me to stop my neibor or the Cannanite's, Hitler, Stalin, the pusher on the corner while you deliberate and ask all these questions. The moral clarity needed for any hint of justice can only be justified by God. Without him you just get all those questions you are asking.
No, the proper thing to do would be assure the safety of the child, but that doesn't mean killing your neighbor. As for the Isrealites and Canaanites, there are so many instances of neighboring tribes accusing each other of various deeds that it can likely be safely assumed this too was just rumors. Such as how it was common for nations and cities in Medieval Europe to acuse the kings and nobility of other nations having laws that allowed for the raping of women, even though there have never been any laws found that allow for such a thing, and there are no recorded occurances of it actually happening. Nothing more than tales of people making wild accusations, which is something that is still quite common today.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Are you sure about that?
About which part?



Let me guess: it's taken out of context... Well, so is the verse you're referring to.
You didn't give any context or comment. Yes God said it and yes it happened. It also only applied to the Jews and only for a specific time. I have already said many times the bible has violence and retribution but it does not have a general mandate to do anything like what we are discussing. THe Quran's verses on violence are generalised, far more numourus and have no experation date. Again please provide a single Bible verse that allows the type of actions or something similar to what I said of Islam. The one you quoted has been void for 2000 years and did not apply to Christians anyway.



How do I know the vast majority of women aren't being yanked off the streets for improper religious clothing? Ummm, because they're not? Do you have proof, other than the one incident you saw (on CNN or YouTube, I'm guessing), that this is done on a regular basis?
First I never said it was constantly going on. However the fact that it was an action done by an state employee in conjuction with several other employees from other departments of the governement to suggest it isn't a policy is obsurd. Why are there etiquite (for lack of a better word) police if these events are not common? Trying to defend a religious system so well known for oppression and violence seems desperate. There are more people killed by Islamic terrorists in a week that the Kleax Klux clan killed in it's entire existance. I have Muslim friends that are good people but claiming the system is anything but violent and oppressive is a tough thing to defend.


I have family and friends in the Middle East, and they haven't seen these incidents. I'm not denying they happen, but if it is as commonplace as you suggest, why haven't we/they seen it?
I never said how common place it was. However the teacher I mentioned was arrested because her students named the class Teddy bear Muhammad. She was put in jail and her fate uncertain. In the meantime there were HUNDREDS and maybe thousands marching in the streets
demanding she be killed. I have seen video of tens of thousands cheering in the middle east when the planes hit the towers. I really don't find the benevolence of Islam a defenceable issue. I can tell these stories and provide documents concerning many of these claims for longer than they can be inaccurately defended. I take men one at a time but I find the religion deplorable.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Transendant standards are only possible with God.
How?

How did surrendering to fear find it's way in this discussion.
Because you mentioned that you think it's dumb to not fear something that may exist. Thus I asked why surrender yourself to fear.

You will no more gladly enter hell if it exists than you would gladly be a pow.
So certain are you? I have learned that there is one thing that no one can take from me, and that is my pride. And even in the face of eternal damnation, my pride will not falter, it will not break, and I will gladly accept my fate as I will not kneel before a god that would damn someone for eternity, condone slavery, or many of the other actions he demanded.
And how are there any reliable stories about people who visited Hell? When you die, you are dead: unless you are a dog that happened to die near a lab working on reanimation there is no coming back. People may have had dreams about Hell (I even used to have some of those, especially when I was struggling with my waning faith), but they have not gone their, or else they would not have been able to tell their story because their body would be rotting.
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
You say that you ran from Christianity for over 20 years, but I am curious how heavily Christian your area is. Peer pressure is a very strong force, I wouldn't be surprised that you eventually gave into the social dynamics of your culture. Satanism is something that aims to make the person individualistic and avoid such social dynamics from affecting the person, and to truly due their own things without others ruling all of their life and decisions, to escape the hive mind dynamics of society.

What if most of the world won't sign your contract? What if you see other countries who have rejected your contract and are killing people? What over arching contract allows evil to be stopped in other societies? You have said what people might choose as morals, you have not said anything about what right and wrong actually are? You have actually made morality a matter of popular opinion. That would have resulted in Jesus, Ghandi, Martin Luther King Jr, and Rosa Parks in Jail. Great system.

I don't want to argue with poes (as per the bolded part). If people reject morality en masse, it fails then to be what is moral. Simple as that; morality is a human invention.

you have not said anything about what right and wrong actually are

Right is what you like, wrong is what you don't like. Simple as that, "right" is the desirable state or behavior, wrong is the undesirable state or behavior. What people desire or not desire in the behavior of others can be based on their own emotions, as it is with some people, or it can be based on what is the most beneficial for the most amount of people.

There is no value in mere assertion

This isn't my "mere assertion", this is ethics theory. It's called moral relativism, however I strongly lean to amoralism more and more every single day. Ave Satanas.

Is the self sacrifice of a man who saves another and gives his life, in his well being? When real problems exist and it will mean a million wives will loose their husband there is no reason in your system by which they should loose their husbands and sons to stop another society from destroying yet another one.

When things get tough it is God not social contracts that are appealed to.

Because the sheep of the Right Hand Path are too weak to be motivated by anything but sadistic torture and brute force of their gods.

When society requires justification for the rights of men it is God not social contracts that are used. When meaning, purpose, origin, destination are desired as well as almost every other profound idea is examined social contracts and even science are impotent but as usuall God is perfectly applicable.

Nonsense, I don't need divine justification to agree with people that rape is against it, I just need a written or verbal agreement. We call this agreement the law of the land; where I live it's called the Federal, State, and local laws. And it's enforced with the understanding of being in the interests of the people, with balances, checks, elections, ect ect.

I do not care if semantics makes you call morality subjective, objective, or supernumerary morals, if God exists it is universal and absolute. It is also objective as our opinion has no input.

It's not semantics; everything works through the laws of function. The only objective laws that objectively exist are those of physics, which governs everything that happens. There is no "immoral" in this system because the "wrong" can't happen. The fact that "wrong" things can happen in the "moral law" proves that it's not absolute, because if it was, the "wrong" would be impossible to happen.

God exists, but he doesn't dictate morality. Satan is God, and Satan tests us, but Satan doesn't but down petty and personal laws with no objectivity. You assert that morality is objective and from God. Prove it; tell me why this is so. What makes morality from "God" [Yahweh] objective in any way?

That is pure opinion and everyone including you acts as if objective standards exist everyday.

It is virtually instinctual. Your moral system is completely insuffecient for the needs of society.

I have no morality other than to not hurt people who haven't wronged me or who I can make an ally.

As for what I described, it seems to have worked for thousands of years. It doesn't mind if you think it's divine or not, that's how it works. That, or with more threats of violence. Violence, even imaginary hellfire, is a really good motivator for good behavior when one is too weak to act responsibly on their own.

That is why Satanism is not for the masses, why too many are too weak or incompetent to walk the path, they do not have the power, self-control, discipline, or willpower to control their actions without paralyzing fear. If you need either eternal pain or eternal pleasure to motivate your actions in life, you are of weak will. Satanism moves beyond this, and says that one should take responsibility for their actions and be internally motivated by themselves to do good or harm, not by an external source such as "God" to do either good or harm.

Hell is almost never included in a sermon. I do not even think it is possible to believe based on fear alone. This is simply not true.

This is a blatantly untrue, I've heard it quite often, and the implications are always there when they talk about "salvation".

I came to be a Christian the same way every single other one I know did. I discovered it to be true. I was reading about Christ not Hell when I was saved. It is not faith in something you wish to avoid that results in salvation.

Accepting Jesus to taste eternal pleasure is just as bad as not "sinning" to avoid eternal pain. It's all based on desirable or undesirable physical stimuli.

It is faith in who Christ is andwhat he did that matters.

Blind faith is known to blind. Luckily I've never put blind faith in anything, and only ever believed in what I have seen. Ave Satanas.

However to never fear that which is likely a reality is as stupid as it gets.

Hell is extremely unlikely to exist, I can't say that there is even a remote possibility that it does. There is much evidence of the development of the idea of Hell, where it started, and how the idea changed. I can indulge you if you want.

I hardly ever even mention Hell in my Christian life. I only wind up discussing it because critics are obsessed with it or rather what they think it is.

The fact that a god claims (or so Xtians say) it exists, shows he is cruel and sadistic. If he is really all-powerful, he could easily make it so that everyone goes to Heaven. It's simply comforting beliefs either way.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
I never said how common place it was. However the teacher I mentioned was arrested because her students named the class Teddy bear Muhammad. She was put in jail and her fate uncertain. In the meantime there were HUNDREDS and maybe thousands marching in the streets
demanding she be killed. I have seen video of tens of thousands cheering in the middle east when the planes hit the towers. I really don't find the benevolence of Islam a defenceable issue. I can tell these stories and provide documents concerning many of these claims for longer than they can be inaccurately defended. I take men one at a time but I find the religion deplorable.
By your reasoning, I can assume that the IRA, pedophile priests, people who let venomous snakes bite them, those who do not take their children to a doctor, gay-bashers, and those who bomb abortion clinics are an accurate portrayal of Christianity at large.

When things get tough it is God not social contracts that are appealed to.
Because people are weak minded, they are followers, and are taught early on to submit to higher powers. And these same people that are motivated by God make it very obvious they do not know even the basics about the faith they claim to follow. A girl I go to school with even announced, in front of the entire class, that she is a Christian and she has never read the Bible. I wanted to laugh at her, and it took alot of strength to hold it in, but because I consider school to be a place of neutrality, unless debate is an inherent part of the class, I did not point out why that is such a terrible thing.
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
Though you were not quoting me:

By your reasoning, I can assume that the IRA, pedophile priests, people who let venomous snakes bite them, those who do not take their children to a doctor, gay-bashers, and those who bomb abortion clinics are an accurate portrayal of Christianity at large.

Maybe they are of their hidden desires if nothing else.

Because people are weak minded, they are followers, and are taught early on to submit to higher powers. And these same people that are motivated by God make it very obvious they do not know even the basics about the faith they claim to follow. A girl I go to school with even announced, in front of the entire class, that she is a Christian and she has never read the Bible. I wanted to laugh at her, and it took alot of strength to hold it in, but because I consider school to be a place of neutrality, unless debate is an inherent part of the class, I did not point out why that is such a terrible thing.
She deserved mockery then.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
She deserved mockery then.
She did, but I respect school as being neutral, the class isn't set up for debate, and religious discussions I typically leave at "I don't want to hear about yours, and I know you don't want to hear mine". But if it would have been something like a philosophy class, I would have not hesitated to ask her if she is aware of what it says, and why she even follows it if she has never read it's book. But because it is a creative writing class with peer critiquing I will find a way to speak directly to her and challenge her thoughts without anyone thinking I had an agenda. Personally I find that to be much more exciting and stimulating as a challenge than a direct confrontation; to put forth accusations on paper that will burn into her soul but to everyone else it just seems like a rant. I need to learn her name though that way I know what she is writing so I can make it more personal. Actually I think I may save it for a poetry project.
 

Dingbat

Avatar of Brittania
About which part?



You didn't give any context or comment. Yes God said it and yes it happened. It also only applied to the Jews and only for a specific time. I have already said many times the bible has violence and retribution but it does not have a general mandate to do anything like what we are discussing. THe Quran's verses on violence are generalised, far more numourus and have no experation date. Again please provide a single Bible verse that allows the type of actions or something similar to what I said of Islam. The one you quoted has been void for 2000 years and did not apply to Christians anyway.



First I never said it was constantly going on. However the fact that it was an action done by an state employee in conjuction with several other employees from other departments of the governement to suggest it isn't a policy is obsurd. Why are there etiquite (for lack of a better word) police if these events are not common? Trying to defend a religious system so well known for oppression and violence seems desperate. There are more people killed by Islamic terrorists in a week that the Kleax Klux clan killed in it's entire existance. I have Muslim friends that are good people but claiming the system is anything but violent and oppressive is a tough thing to defend.


I never said how common place it was. However the teacher I mentioned was arrested because her students named the class Teddy bear Muhammad. She was put in jail and her fate uncertain. In the meantime there were HUNDREDS and maybe thousands marching in the streets
demanding she be killed. I have seen video of tens of thousands cheering in the middle east when the planes hit the towers. I really don't find the benevolence of Islam a defenceable issue. I can tell these stories and provide documents concerning many of these claims for longer than they can be inaccurately defended. I take men one at a time but I find the religion deplorable.
Just a point but most of your stories involve African Nations not Middle Eastern. This is the same Africa which has Christian Uganda stringing up Homosexuals. If we want to compare which violent tribe of Africans can be the most fundamentalist then sure but lets be honest with ourselves as well. Africa only seems to attract some of the more outrageous stripes into government regardless of denomination.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Do you need more examples of Christians that behave badly? Every walk of life has its bad apples. Or do need some examples of positive things that Muslims have done? What about all the Muslims who live in America, or the increase in converts after the 9/11 attacks, but yet these people are just like anyone else.
What individuals who call themselves Muslim or Christians do was not the point. I was talking about what the religions texts teach or allow. There is not a single scripture in the Bible that allows anyone to perform these kinds of acts. That is not IMO the case with Islam.


No, the proper thing to do would be assure the safety of the child, but that doesn't mean killing your neighbor.
It may very well mean killing the neibor. It certainly is not unjust to kill a person that is torturing a child. Human history is a long sad tale of people with ideals like yours that refuse to act or debate and debate as atrocities are running rampant. If people like this would have let Churchhill act in 37 to kill hitler 50 million people would have been saved. The only thing necessary for evil to succeed is for good people to do nothing (or less or act to late). That is the inevitable outcome of people who have an insuffecient moral foundation. For goodness sakes that kind of moral ambiguity has led to millions of unborn or partially born babies being killed every year as a form of birth control. A morally liberal agenda finds it immoral to kill a man guilty of murder but will fight for the right to kill an innocent child. Without God it is moral madness.


As for the Isrealites and Canaanites, there are so many instances of neighboring tribes accusing each other of various deeds that it can likely be safely assumed this too was just rumors.
I did not get what I said about the cannanites from the bible. Even if I did the bible is the only book of it's kind that soberly records their own failures as much as anyone elses. The principle of emberassment is just one of a hundred ways that the bible is known to be very very reliable.



Such as how it was common for nations and cities in Medieval Europe to acuse the kings and nobility of other nations having laws that allowed for the raping of women, even though there have never been any laws found that allow for such a thing, and there are no recorded occurances of it actually happening. Nothing more than tales of people making wild accusations, which is something that is still quite common today.
Are you just going to invent things that you think will allow you to get out of this. Why not actually investigate what I am actually talking about. They have found childrens skeletons in foundational walls. They have carvings showing them walking through fire.

The Canaanites originated the practices of demon-worship, occult rites, child sacrifice and cannibalism. Eustace Mullins, The Curse of Canaan p. 8 (1987). They sacrificed children to Molech (a Semitic god). Mike Warnke, Schemes of Satan p. 29 (1991). In Palestine numerous bodies of children were discovered in the foundations of buildings proving without doubt that oblations of this character were common among Canaanites to strengthen the walls of homes and cities. Edwin O. James, Sacrifice and Sacrament, p. 94 (1962). The priests of the Canaanites, to control the populace, claimed that the first-born children were to be sacrificed to their demon gods. They practiced their horrible rites in "groves" or "shrines" where they could "murder children without being seen and punished by the descendents of Shem" Eustace Mullins, The Curse of Canaan, p. 24 (1987)
Apologetics Press - The Warring Destruction of the Canaanite People

The site isn't secular but their claims are. I think only one has a biblical source.
However the Bible is so historically accurate that it has 25,000 verified historical corroberations, not a single verified false claim, and is a primary resource in archeology. Pick either Cannan, slavery, or child stoning and we can cover them in detail. I can't meaningfully address several in depth subjects.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Transcendant applies to something above or outside natural law, and usually considered universal. That is a pretty good description of God.


Because you mentioned that you think it's dumb to not fear something that may exist. Thus I asked why surrender yourself to fear.
Having a healthy regard for real danger and quiverring in fear are two different things. It is only bias that takes the common and makes it hyperbolic and then says how bad it is.


So certain are you? I have learned that there is one thing that no one can take from me, and that is my pride. And even in the face of eternal damnation, my pride will not falter, it will not break, and I will gladly accept my fate as I will not kneel before a god that would damn someone for eternity, condone slavery, or many of the other actions he demanded.
Pride being a deadly sin and probably the most odious characteristic of man that explains a lot. It will be real hard if what the bible says is true to have pride without a soul. I have seen the strongest and toughest break many times while in the Navy. Your statement has no basis in reality. Humans all have a limit.


And how are there any reliable stories about people who visited Hell? When you die, you are dead: unless you are a dog that happened to die near a lab working on reanimation there is no coming back. People may have had dreams about Hell (I even used to have some of those, especially when I was struggling with my waning faith), but they have not gone their, or else they would not have been able to tell their story because their body would be rotting.
Look I don't claim those stories are true and I reject 95% of them. Unlike you though I do not claim I know what I have no way of knowing. There is one that has always struck me as true. A man visited hell. Came back and was traumatized for a year, his wife spent another year telling him God did that to allow him to speak about it. He refused and refused. He finally did at a Church he went to, I have seen the tape. He does not want to talk about it, he gets chocked up and visably shaken by the memory. He is the most uncomfortable speaker I have ever seen. Any way an artist at the Church drew a picture of a demon he described. Years later he was on a show with others who claimed to have been to hell and another lady there was an artist herself and presented a drawing she made. Turned out these two people who had never even heard of each other had drawings of the exact same demon or type of demon. I do not believe in UFOs but I am not arrogant enough to claim I know they do not exist. Perhaps your pride does not allow a similar stance for you.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
By your reasoning, I can assume that the IRA, pedophile priests, people who let venomous snakes bite them, those who do not take their children to a doctor, gay-bashers, and those who bomb abortion clinics are an accurate portrayal of Christianity at large.
What kind of garbage is this? None of this is justified by the Bible. If you wish to evaluate a teacher why are you picking out only the dissobedient students who never show up to class. A teacher should be evaluaded by his sincere students. The actions I described are justified in the Quran. The ones you mentioned are not justified by the bible.


Because people are weak minded, they are followers, and are taught early on to submit to higher powers. And these same people that are motivated by God make it very obvious they do not know even the basics about the faith they claim to follow. A girl I go to school with even announced, in front of the entire class, that she is a Christian and she has never read the Bible. I wanted to laugh at her, and it took alot of strength to hold it in, but because I consider school to be a place of neutrality, unless debate is an inherent part of the class, I did not point out why that is such a terrible thing.
What does that girl have to do with anything? School used to be a place where God was acknowledged. It was a peacefull orderly productive place. Liberals stripped God out and now we have a school shooting a month, teenage pregnancy rates that sky rocketed, gang and drug activity, and teachers who quit in frustration. There is no such thing as neutral. If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice - Rush. There is no hero in neutrality - Rush.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Just a point but most of your stories involve African Nations not Middle Eastern. [/quote ] No they do not. Only a single point (not story) that concerns Islamic slavery had to with Africa.
This is the same Africa which has Christian Uganda stringing up Homosexuals
. That is just as despicable and I condemn it. However the Bible does not allow this in fact it prohibits it so it all on them not God.

If we want to compare which violent tribe of Africans can be the most fundamentalist then sure but lets be honest with ourselves as well. Africa only seems to attract some of the more outrageous stripes into government regardless of denomination.
African tribes are not the point. Slavery in Africa was perpetuated by middle eastern Muslims with I am sure some local help. I claim the Quran does justify violence but I do not claim it justifies slavery. It might I just never checked.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
You say that you ran from Christianity for over 20 years, but I am curious how heavily Christian your area is. Peer pressure is a very strong force, I wouldn't be surprised that you eventually gave into the social dynamics of your culture.
This is a terrible cop out. No one could possibly sincerely believe what it is you rejected, and so it has to be peer pressure. I am about as opposite from a person who follows the crowd as they get. I am known for resisting anything the crowd accepts. I was not even in a Church and only had a single Christian friend when I was saved. It was me and God alone. Your theory at least for me is about as inaccurate as possible.

Satanism is something that aims to make the person individualistic and avoid such social dynamics from affecting the person, and to truly due their own things without others ruling all of their life and decisions, to escape the hive mind dynamics of society.
In other words Satanism gratifies your desire to be un accountable. It feeds pride and has a self centered point of view. It appeals to the anarchist and rebellious nature. It is like going downhill, easy.


I don't want to argue with poes (as per the bolded part). If people reject morality en masse, it fails then to be what is moral. Simple as that; morality is a human invention.
Your morality may be a human invention mine is not. Society desperately needs more than opinion to establish justice.


Right is what you like, wrong is what you don't like. Simple as that, "right" is the desirable state or behavior, wrong is the undesirable state or behavior. What people desire or not desire in the behavior of others can be based on their own emotions, as it is with some people, or it can be based on what is the most beneficial for the most amount of people.
That accurately describes what is left without God and is completely insuffecient for human needs. That is why God is so often appealed to in order to justify morality in any real and needed sence.


This isn't my "mere assertion", this is ethics theory. It's called moral relativism, however I strongly lean to amoralism more and more every single day. Ave Satanas.
Theory = assertion + evidence (that you didn't supply). I know very well which direction you are leaning.




Because the sheep of the Right Hand Path are too weak to be motivated by anything but sadistic torture and brute force of their gods.
While you are fumbling around with left hand, right hand, sheep, and a narcicistic religion Bible believers are acting to stop Hitlers, build hospitals, rescue orphans, and rebuild cities.


Nonsense, I don't need divine justification to agree with people that rape is against it, I just need a written or verbal agreement.
Ok, without appealing to God prove rape is actually wrong>


We call this agreement the law of the land; where I live it's called the Federal, State, and local laws. And it's enforced with the understanding of being in the interests of the people, with balances, checks, elections, ect ect.
We call it insuffecient and arbitrary popular opinion. The same kind that killed the greatest example of benevolence in human history (Jesus). Great system.


It's not semantics; everything works through the laws of function. The only objective laws that objectively exist are those of physics, which governs everything that happens. There is no "immoral" in this system because the "wrong" can't happen. The fact that "wrong" things can happen in the "moral law" proves that it's not absolute, because if it was, the "wrong" would be impossible to happen.
If you can explain what would actually change regardless of the label then I will discuss it. You may call Biblical morality fruit salad morality if you want, has nothing to do with your ultimate accountability.


God exists, but he doesn't dictate morality. Satan is God, and Satan tests us, but Satan doesn't but down petty and personal laws with no objectivity. You assert that morality is objective and from God. Prove it; tell me why this is so. What makes morality from "God" [Yahweh] objective in any way?
I reject any theory based on far far less evidence than mine is. In no real category by which theological, philisophical, and historical claims are evaluated is Satanism more reliable that the Bible. It isn't even a contest.




I have no morality other than to not hurt people who haven't wronged me or who I can make an ally.
That is sad. Ok prove it is wrong to hurt someone without an appeal to God.

As for what I described, it seems to have worked for thousands of years. It doesn't mind if you think it's divine or not, that's how it works. That, or with more threats of violence. Violence, even imaginary hellfire, is a really good motivator for good behavior when one is too weak to act responsibly on their own.
Yeah right. Human history is a shining example of justice and virtue. Good night nurse. G K Chesterton said what made him abandon his atheism was the stupid and contradictory arguments used against God. He said that (as here) God is said to not exist because the world is doing fine by its self as well as that the world is so evil then God does not exist. God is too permissive, he is too strict. He is too passive, he is to warlike. He is too good to exist, he is too evil to exist. Apparently God is whatever a non believer needs him to be to dismiss him.



That is why Satanism is not for the masses, why too many are too weak or incompetent to walk the path, they do not have the power, self-control, discipline, or willpower to control their actions without paralyzing fear.
According to the Bible (the most reliable religous text in human history) it is the masses that have chosen it because it gratifies and appeals to the base elements of our nature. I know you dissagree, and I also know you can't prove your case.

If you need either eternal pain or eternal pleasure to motivate your actions in life, you are of weak will. Satanism moves beyond this, and says that one should take responsibility for their actions and be internally motivated by themselves to do good or harm, not by an external source such as "God" to do either good or harm.
Satan moves beyond that and says don't worry God did not really say you will go to hell. That is seductive to the rebellious and dishonorable. He keeps lieing until you actually die and according to the Bible wind up there.


This is a blatantly untrue, I've heard it quite often, and the implications are always there when they talk about "salvation".
I said nothing about implications. Just probability alone would suggest very strongly that since there are a vastly higher number of subjects that are not Hell that Hell would only be preached on a small percentage of time. It is a well known fact that too much talk on hell drives away unbelievers.


Accepting Jesus to taste eternal pleasure is just as bad as not "sinning" to avoid eternal pain. It's all based on desirable or undesirable physical stimuli.
Yeah, it sure is nuts to admit the truth is the truth and I want to live with God forever. Who ever desires that is obviously got a screw loose. Does there exist a point so obsurd that following Satan winds up leading you to, that would cause you to turn around. Cognitive dissonance is truly a remarkable force.


Blind faith is known to blind. Luckily I've never put blind faith in anything, and only ever believed in what I have seen. Ave Satanas.
Blind faith has nothing to do with what I said. Strawman.


Hell is extremely unlikely to exist, I can't say that there is even a remote possibility that it does. There is much evidence of the development of the idea of Hell, where it started, and how the idea changed. I can indulge you if you want.
No, you will give me what it is you have arbitraily decided to adopt because it is convenient. There does not exist a text that even approaches Biblical reliability on the subject. I am not saying I know the Bible is right. Just that it is by light years the most likely candidate. You may tell me of any text you want if you can demonstrate it's reliability equalls the Bible's.


The fact that a god claims (or so Xtians say) it exists, shows he is cruel and sadistic. If he is really all-powerful, he could easily make it so that everyone goes to Heaven. It's simply comforting beliefs either way.
Only if for some reason you have swallowed Catholic tradition. Hell is widely believed to be future destruction of the soul. As in the scripture that says to fear the one who can destroy the soul in Hell. God gave us a soul, if we then use it to reject him then he gives us exactly what we chose. We get what we want. God is omnipresent, the only place he does not exist is non existance. That is where we eventually go if we reject him. There is nothing unjust about that. It is in fact perfect justice.
 

jasonwill2

Well-Known Member
Wow, I'm too tired this morning for this.

1Robin, you say that Satanism is "easy", but fail to realize I'm saying the opposite when I later touch upon how too weak people are to walk the path.

Satanism isn't easy, it's ******* hard at times, even though it seems to come to naturally to me. The kind of self mastery involved, with the realization that there are no external spiritual forces, is the hardest spiritual endeavor a person can take on.

Satanism doesn't say I'm not responsible, it is the exact opposite of that. "Satan represents responsibility to the responsible!"

If you think Satanism is a religion to make people not feel responsible for their actions you are dead wrong. It does say not to feel guilty for normal and healthy human behaviors, but NEVER does it say to not accept responsibility for how your actions affect other people. The philosophy is very clear, and very brutal, on self responsibility.

It's funny actually, since you think you are "saved" you get a free ticket for all the hurt you cause. Satanism offers no such safety net, just this life, then death.

My religion isn't narcissistic, I do care for others, I do also want to help other people. I've always been the one to go out of my way to help others when I reasonably could. I've seen a lot of apathetic people, and I've been appalled at how self-centered and selfish people can be while those around them suffer, and they are just going "more more more!" Since I have became a Satanist though, I have learned how to deal with these people. They are nothing but 'vampires'.

As for your other false and fictitious claims, I don't want to play the game of denial and debunking of Christian Bible claims. It's an old game that has been played for centuries and I really won't give you the satisfaction. Others can debate with you on this. It is not the "most reliable" historical document. Most of my non-desire to debate on this topic is that you fail to make a specific claim, so I might as well shoot the side of a barn.

Two other points I will address;

Rape isn't objectively wrong.

It's not objectively wrong to hurt people, and there are situations even within my morality that it's "legal" to hurt others, but an eye for an eye... there should not be excess in the harm I do to them, and it's rarely to be physical. And even then if I can make them an ally it's better to do that after they have hurt me then to try and get vengeance.

I think I was going to say something else but I'm so tired I forgot it already.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
What individuals who call themselves Muslim or Christians do was not the point. I was talking about what the religions texts teach or allow. There is not a single scripture in the Bible that allows anyone to perform these kinds of acts. That is not IMO the case with Islam.

This is the most important part of your post. "IMO".

Carry on.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Wow, I'm too tired this morning for this.
I know the feeling mornings are no good for debating for some reason.

1Robin, you say that Satanism is "easy", but fail to realize I'm saying the opposite when I later touch upon how too weak people are to walk the path.
What path? Please keep in mind that I do not subscribe to your view of what Satan is. No matter what source your information comes from it is less reliable in every category than the Bible. The bible says Satan appeals to every base desire we have. In other words he tempts us to float with the current of sin until it is too late to avoid the water fall. God requires us to swim against the stream. Sinning, lieing, and believing false doctrine is easy. That is what the bible exhaustively describes as Satan's goals. If you believe in another type of Satan, whatever it is that you rely upon must be equal to the Bible's reliability,




Satanism isn't easy, it's ******* hard at times, even though it seems to come to naturally to me. The kind of self mastery involved, with the realization that there are no external spiritual forces, is the hardest spiritual endeavor a person can take on.
If there are no external forces what is it that makes it hard. Sinning is about the easiest thing in the world to do.

Satanism doesn't say I'm not responsible, it is the exact opposite of that. "Satan represents responsibility to the responsible!"
Why is it you think this is true?

If you think Satanism is a religion to make people not feel responsible for their actions you are dead wrong.
How do you know what Satanism is? Where are the texts, what is their history, how reliable are they?
It does say not to feel guilty for normal and healthy human behaviors, but NEVER does it say to not accept responsibility for how your actions affect other people. The philosophy is very clear, and very brutal, on self responsibility.
That is perfectly described by the Bible as what happens to people who resist God long enough. He know longer contends with you and abandons you to your corrupt desires. Your concience becomes seared and you no longer feel Godly remorse.

It's funny actually, since you think you are "saved" you get a free ticket for all the hurt you cause. Satanism offers no such safety net, just this life, then death.
Actually even though the ultimate destination is settled the temporal reward and punishment is increased. The Bible says if even a Christian gets out of line far enough God may physically kill them. It also says that he ruthlessly prunes those whom he loves. There is no free lunch as long as we live in fact retribution and consequence is increased. Only the ultimate destination was settled.

My religion isn't narcissistic, I do care for others, I do also want to help other people. I've always been the one to go out of my way to help others when I reasonably could. I've seen a lot of apathetic people, and I've been appalled at how self-centered and selfish people can be while those around them suffer, and they are just going "more more more!" Since I have became a Satanist though, I have learned how to deal with these people. They are nothing but 'vampires'.
I do not consider your claims about your "religion" meaningfull until you can suffeciently justify them. I can say I worship the almighty peanut butter sandwich and that makes me moral and good. That is useless non sence without suffecient justification.

As for your other false and fictitious claims, I don't want to play the game of denial and debunking of Christian Bible claims. It's an old game that has been played for centuries and I really won't give you the satisfaction. Others can debate with you on this. It is not the "most reliable" historical document. Most of my non-desire to debate on this topic is that you fail to make a specific claim, so I might as well shoot the side of a barn.
How in the world is the fact that the Bible is by a long long way more reliable than every other text in ancient history by every standard that is used to determined that, not specific?

Two other points I will address;

Rape isn't objectively wrong.

It's not objectively wrong to hurt people, and there are situations even within my morality that it's "legal" to hurt others, but an eye for an eye... there should not be excess in the harm I do to them, and it's rarely to be physical. And even then if I can make them an ally it's better to do that after they have hurt me then to try and get vengeance.

I think I was going to say something else but I'm so tired I forgot it already.
Let me make it something that can't be slipped out of. Show without God that any action what so ever is actually wrong. How easy can a question get? Maybe get some coffee first.
 
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1robin

Christian/Baptist
This is the most important part of your post. "IMO".

Carry on.
of course it is my opinion there is no test by which it can be proven. It is also my opinion that morality exists, astetic value exists, and love exists. Which can't be proven but are very reliable claims. I also believe that reality was not created 5 minutes ago with the appearance of age. I also believe that many of the Quran's violent verses are open ended and general and to use them as justification for violence is consistent with them. The evidence for that conclusion is over whelming but is still an opinion.
 
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