Report reveals the truth behind the international dupe on Palestinian poverty.

[metis]

Open your eyes, your people are oppressing the Palestinians, if they don't stop, they have no right to their own self determination, that is my opinion.

It's very obvious that your "opinion" is far more important and reliable to you than are objective facts that you close your mind off to. Your choice, I guess, but it does make having any kind of discussion with you pretty much impossible. As the saying goes, "You can have your own opinion but not your own facts", and it's truly a shame you can tell one from the other.

 

[Lyndon]

I disagree, It's very obvious that your "opinion" is far more important and reliable to you than are objective facts that you close your mind off to. Your choice, I guess, but it does make having any kind of discussion with you pretty much impossible. As the saying goes, "You can have your own opinion but not your own facts", and it's truly a shame you can tell one from the other.

 

[Shusha]

We're speaking about Palestine.

No. We were speaking about the concept of self-determination based on your statement that you opposed Zionism. One should have a consistent concept of the right to self-determination or the conditions needed for self-determination which applies universally. If you have a fluid concept of self-determination based upon the actors, well, you have double standards. And then we have to explore why that is so.

 

[Lyndon]

Maybe you should refresh your memory by reading the OP, this is a thread about Palestine.

 

[Shusha]

Maybe you should refresh your memory by reading the OP, this is a thread about Palestine.

So you are unable to develop a consistent concept of self-determination or you are unwilling to reveal your double standards. Got it.

 

[Lyndon]

No, but this thread is about Palestine,and the Palestinians do not have the full right of self determination, thanks to the oppressive policies of Zionist Israel.

 

[Shusha]

No, but this thread is about Palestine,and the Palestinians do not have the full right of self determination, thanks to the oppressive policies of Zionist Israel.

Instead of repeating the same lame one-sided narrative, why don't you actually explore some of these concepts? I have invited you to present your case about the nature of the right to self-determination. You refuse. I have invited you to present your case about HOW Israel oppresses the Palestinians. You ignore. I have asked you to present your ideas for what Israel and Palestine should do to bring about a two state solution. You ignore.

What am I to do but keep asking?

 

[Lyndon]

Step One, withdraw from the occupied territories and Eastern Jerusalem, when that's done we can talk more.

 

[Shusha]

Step One, withdraw from the occupied territories and Eastern Jerusalem, when that's done we can talk more.

1. Who decides which territories should be withdrawn from? Israel? The PA? Or through a negotiated agreement between the parties? Or are you of the mistaken belief that borders already exist? And if so, what are they and what document of international law or treaty assigns these borders?

2. What is meant by "withdraw"? Do you mean a withdrawal of military forces or ethnic cleansing of all Jews from the nascent Palestinian State?

 

[RocketJSquirell]

Lyndon

You really do not know history do you?

There is only one group of people who have lived continuously in the land of Israel for 4000 year. The Jewish people.

There has never been an independent Arab State in the area and no state called Palestine.

Arabs are not native to Israel and he people we now call Palestinians arrived in the area recently. Most of them immigrated to the land inr esponse to the economic opportuinites afforded by the return of more Jews to their homeland and due to British governmnetal policies of relocating Arabs into the mandate territories;

Here are some articles on the subject:
https://jewishmediaagency.wordpress.com/2015/05/31/arab-immigration-to-historic-palestine-a-survey/
http://elderofziyon.blogspot.co.il/2014/02/zionists-trying-to-hide-canaanite.html#disqus_thread
https://palestineisraelconflict.wor...hey-originate-from-hear-the-hesitant-answers/
https://palestineisraelconflict.wor...nly-ghost-towns-of-massacred-christian-areas/

 

[Lyndon]

How do you sleep at night??

 

[RocketJSquirell]

Lyndon

I assume that you have never actually read the treaties and agreements which determine the legal claims of Israel. While there is obviously a political disagreement and competing claims over the land, there is no "occupation" and there is no "east Jerusalem" (speaking of which, can you explain why Jews should not be allowed in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem? That is most of what you call "East Jerusalem)

International Law Officially Recognizes Jewish Claims in Judea and Samaria http://unitedwithisrael.org/interna...ecognizes-jewish-claims-in-judea-and-samaria/

short video for people who do not like to read: The legal case for Israel

Let me know whan you have learned the facts

 

[RocketJSquirell]

Lyndin - I sleep quite well. Thank you. It is easy to sleep well when one lives a moral life based on truth and facts.

 

[Nietzsche]

View attachment 11483

That second image is misleading bull****. Of course there's more people who live there year-round now. It was too ****ing hot to do so before refrigeration. However, the area had been under Muslim rule for centuries, without interruption.

Also, stop using weasel-words. Judea, Samaria, Israel, Palestine, Retenu, Qidshu, Phonecia, Assyria, Philistia..

Those are all referring to the same region. Palestine is the most commonly used name because that's what the Turks called it and that's what the British kept calling it.

 

[Lyndon]

The true story of the Jewish Zionist invasion of Palestine and ethnic cleansing of over 1 million Muslims; From the Jewish Virtual library, notice the massive drop in Muslim population in 1948 following the war of Independence. Remember Zionism formed around 1870?? where you start to see massive increases in the Jewish population

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Society_&_Culture/israel_palestine_pop.html

 

[columbus]

There is only one group of people who have lived continuously in the land of Israel for 4000 year. The Jewish people.
@RocketJSquirell squirrel
This is the sort of dishonestly inaccurate statement that makes this subject so difficult. The 5000 Jewish people living there before 1882 are not the problem and aren't an issue. It's the hundreds of thousands who arrived in the 20th century.

The true story of the Jewish Zionist invasion of Palestine and ethnic cleansing of over 1 million Muslims;
@Lyndon
This is the sort of dishonestly inaccurate statement that makes this such a difficult subject. The vast majority of the Palestinian people who left did so voluntarily. They were expecting the attack by their Muslim brothers to ethnically cleanse the area of Jews. Then they expected to return and get their property back, plus some war booty.

You are both wrong.
Tom

 

[RocketJSquirell]

Columbus - There were far more Jews living in Israel before 1882 - And Jews are the only continuous inhabitants of the land.
I am sorry you do not like facts

 

[Lyndon]

You're both wrong according to wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1948_Palestinian_exodus

 

[Lyndon]

Columbus - There were far more Jews living in Israel before 1882 - And Jews are the only continuous inhabitants of the land.
I am sorry you do not like facts

The Arabs are direct descendants of the same pagans the Jews were going around slaughtering in the Old Testament, so the've both lived there for 4000 years, except, not many Jews at all for almost 2000 years, and plenty of Palestinian Arabs.

 

[Shusha]

However, the area had been under Muslim rule for centuries, without interruption.

What, exactly, is "Muslim rule"? And what authoritative international law speaks about "Muslim rule"? Muslim is not a legal term that can be used to indicate a national sovereignty.