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Return of Christ
- Thread starter InChrist
- Start date
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
Thanks. That was very informative. I've seen Baha'i articles trying to squeeze out numbers and dates from Christian and Shia scripture to prove that their leader was the promised one of all religions while both these scriptures mention in the most explicit terms that no one knows that date but God. For the record, here is verse from the Quran similar to what you quoted from the Bible that according to Shia scripture is about the return of the Mahdi and Jesus:
"They ask you about the hour, when will be its taking place? Say: The knowledge of it is only with my Lord; none but He shall manifest it at its time; it will be momentous in the heavens and the earth; it will not come on you but of a sudden. They ask you as if you were solicitous about it. Say: Its knowledge is only with Allah, but most people do not know (Quran 7:187)."
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
Again, I don't know about Christianity, but in Shia Islam the statements imply that one must always be ready for such an event. Thus when it is stated "we see it happening soon" it is in the sense that "we will always be ready" for his arrival.
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InChrist
Free4ever
You mean everyone who has set a date has been dead wrong and no wonder since the scriptures do not reveal a date and for a person do make the claim of a date is completely wrong and against the teaching of the Bible. Nevertheless, Jesus adamantly stated that his followers are to "Watch" and be aware of signs which would indicate the nearness of His return. I agree. mythology is certainly something very foolish to believe in or follow. The word of God on the other hand, which reveals His plan for History is for those who seek wisdom.
InChrist
Free4ever
I think the biblical scriptures are make it clear that anyone who sets a date is a liar and a false teacher. I don't believe anyone can know the day or the hour, but since Jesus said to "Watch" this indicates there are things to watch for which would mean the time is getting close.
InChrist
Free4ever
It is true that many have expected or wrongly claimed Jesus would return in their generation, yet the scriptures give indicates that a generation which sees certain signs would be the generation that sees His return...signs that were not in place during previous generations.
dgirl1986
Big Queer Chesticles!
Humanity seems obsessed with the ending of the world and ending of life on earth. Maybe people should focus on the now and live life as best as they can until their life comes to an end.
List of dates predicted for apocalyptic events - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
Wow, so many similarities with Shia beliefs! We have also been told of signs to watch for.
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
You have it all wrong. The return of Jesus and the Mahdi are for the birth of a new world replete with peace, goodness, and justice and empty of all evil, war, and injustice.
dgirl1986
Big Queer Chesticles!
I think you missed the point I was making.
Birth of a new world? In what sense? Isnt that what heaven is supposed to be? Where your god is supposed to be already?
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
God in heaven?! nope.
dgirl1986
Big Queer Chesticles!
Hang on, are you christian or muslim. The two texts might say different things.
spirit_of_dawn
Active Member
Shia Muslim.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
i agree, so really then, Jesus words about a 'sign' that he had returned is all they would need to know he had returned.
Jesus told them what the sign would be, so when they saw those signs manifested, they would know that Jesus had arrived....hence they dont need to physically see him.
1Ti 6:14-15 that you keep this commandment without spot, blameless until our Lord Jesus Christ's appearing,15 which He [The Father] will manifest in His own time, He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, 16 who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power. Amen.
Verse 15 is actually referring to God the Father who alone has immortality. It cannot be referring to Christ because He has been seen. Additionally, the verb "has" is in the present tense. By this time, Christ had already ascended to the Father as an eternal, immortal spirit being. Paul could not be implying Christ is the "only" one with immortality. Although Christ is the subject of the last clause in verse 14, there is a transition made at the beginning of verse 15 that switches the context to the Father. Some argue against this transition but a look at the word order in The Greek-English New Testament dispels this argument:
Notice how the numbered word order indicates the phrase "shall show" should be the last phrase (#6) of verse 15. When the Greek is translated correctly then the transition from Christ to The Father becomes apparent:
"...the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ; Which in his own times the Blessed and only Potentate shall show" (1 Tim 6:14-15)
The Blessed and only Potentate is the one who "shall show" or set the time of Christ's appearing!
may i ask you, who's manifestation is being described here?
The scripture at Matthew 24:3 does not make it clear that the words Jesus spoke after the question was the answer. But Matthew 12:39 DOES make it clear that NO sign will be given.
He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah." Matthew 12:39
Some might say one question was asked by those believing in him and the first time it was asked it was asked by those not believing. But what comes to mind is this: There is no partiality with God.
Why would Jesus say no sign will be given and then give them one? Did he lie? Is he here to confuse us?
He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah." Matthew 12:39
Some might say one question was asked by those believing in him and the first time it was asked it was asked by those not believing. But what comes to mind is this: There is no partiality with God.
Why would Jesus say no sign will be given and then give them one? Did he lie? Is he here to confuse us?
I'll say Matthew 24:3 means believers will be too busy surviving to be on the lookout for a sign. Don't worry. He is with you all the days until the conclusion of something.
james2ko
Well-Known Member
They don't need to see Him, but the scriptures claim they will. The passages are irrefutable in the Greek and English, Pegg. I know its hard for you to accept because that is not what the WT teaches, but that is what scripture teaches.
The passages and their grammar are clear--It is Jesus Christ who will manifest [epiphanea] Himself. As other passages confirm. Obviously His signs will also be seen, but His appearing will follow and every eye will see [optomai] Him. Just as the scriptures state. Perhaps a visit to a spiritual "optometrist" will help you "optomai" past your doctrinal bias.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
^ Yes, seems clear to me as well.
They don't need to see Him, but the scriptures claim they will. The passages are irrefutable in the Greek and English, Pegg. I know its hard for you to accept because that is not what the WT teaches, but that is what scripture teaches.
The passages and their grammar are clear--It is Jesus Christ who will manifest [epiphanea] Himself. As other passages confirm. Obviously His signs will also be seen, but His appearing will follow and every eye will see [optomai] Him. Just as the scriptures state. Perhaps a visit to a spiritual "optometrist" will help you "optomai" past your doctrinal bias.
Is it possible the scripture was written "every eye will see IT", it meaning his coming?
He is coming with the clouds and every eye will see IT. It is pair to "this good news is preached in ALL the inhabited earth for a witness to ALL the nations."
Jesus has "epiphanea" to me. If he has not epiphanea to you yet, maybe you should stop talking about him, God willing.
james2ko
Well-Known Member
No. The Greek pronoun "autos" (him) is in the third person masculine singular. It is definitely speaking of an individual. If it were referring to an event, it would be in the neuter.