RF and Mental Health

[Revoltingest]

I know frubes are like catnip but there can be a downside to having such things. On another forum the Likes facility was definitely a (potential) tool for signalling group allegiances (real or imagined). Similarly the following/followers thing.

Every now & then someone proposes negative frubals.
Can you imagine the carnage?
A forum I was once on (The History Channel) had a
downrating system. The only members with good scores
were brand new ones who hadn't p****d off anyone yet.
If we ever get'm here, it's flame on!

At least we finally got rid of those awards.

 

[Jim]

I'm having trouble seeing what you mean here. Specifically where you say "it has nothing to do with the language people use." The very things you object to - stereotyping, misrepresenting, disparaging etc etc are all "achieved" using language. And on an internet forum - a veritable word repository. Perhaps you could clarify?

“That’s the stupidest $&!*%# idea I’ve ever heard of! You can take that idea and cram it back up your *** where it came from.” That is not an example of the kind of behavior that I“m thinking of, when I’m discussing what to do about harmful behavior. It is not vilifying anyone’s motives or intentions. It is not disparaging anyone’s character or capacities.

No matter how polite or diplomatic a person is or how much their words ooze with kindness, friendliness, innocence, humility, and best wishes, they can still be vilifying a person’s motives and intentions, or disparaging their character and capacities. All that sweet talk might even make it more hatmful.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I suspect I'm far from alone in this so I would welcome other people's thoughts on how RF is affecting your mental health at the moment. Are other users having a similar experience and if so, how are you finding ways of coping with it?

RF has no chance of upsetting my mental health, it can only improve it by the goals I set.

I do not talk party or divisional politics, I avoid that subject like I would the plague. Thus I do not enter into that controversy, but do try very hard not to be part of it. So much could be said with all the injustice, but I see many are symptoms of disunity.

My Faith gives me the coping skills with this topic. Regards Tony

 

[Jim]

I have some ideas for helping to reduce harmful and distracting behavior in Interest discussions, and helping to reduce and counteract their harmful effects on people and on the discussions.

 

[Secret Chief]

“That’s the stupidest $&!*%# idea I’ve ever heard of! You can take that idea and cram it back up your *** where it came from.” That is not an example of the kind of behavior that I“m thinking of, when I’m discussing what to do about harmful behavior. It is not vilifying anyone’s motives or intentions. It is not disparaging anyone’s character or capacities.

No matter how polite or diplomatic a person is or how much their words ooze with kindness, friendliness, innocence, humility, and best wishes, they can still be vilifying a person’s motives and intentions, or disparaging their character and capacities. All that sweet talk might even make it more hatmful.

Hmm yes that "quote" is a good example of unacceptable verbal unpleasantness. Can you make up a similar "quote" of vilifying or disparaging posting but that uses politeness, diplomacy, kindness, friendliness, innocence, humility and best wishes, because that would seem to be mutually exclusive; I can't think how it might be done.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I have some ideas for helping to reduce harmful and distracting behavior in Interest discussions, and helping to reduce and counteract their harmful effects on people and on the discussions.

When ideas blossom into action, so all can see the obvious benefit, I see that is the fruition of idea.

Community building uses this process.

Regards Tony

 

[Secret Chief]

I have some ideas for helping to reduce harmful and distracting behavior in Interest discussions, and helping to reduce and counteract their harmful effects on people and on the discussions.

Are you going to share them then on here? Or through "Conversations" with the staff?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Hey everyone,

Recently, I've found it difficult to ignore much of the divisive political discussions we've been having on the forum. It's becoming much harder given the situation in the U.S.A and with coronavirus raging. It is particularly difficult given that many of these discussions now deal with life-and-death issues (such as how and why to end lock-down). In the polarised climate that we have today, it's often hard to appreciate nuance and subtly and it very taxing on the nerves and this seems to be a personal trigger for me.

I suspect I'm far from alone in this so I would welcome other people's thoughts on how RF is affecting your mental health at the moment. Are other users having a similar experience and if so, how are you finding ways of coping with it?

Yep. I used to try to discuss things with trumpettes and similar Usual Suspects politely, with reference to facts, evidence, and logic, and would get really, personally upset by their abusive antics and blunt refusal to engage with information logically. It REALLY upset me, I'd find myself fuming hours after "conversations", and seething about it cost me several nights' sleep. Now I've just blocked them. Once you realise there are people who aren't actually interested in facts and logic, who will continue to believe and loudly proclaim what they want even when proven wrong (some of them, notably, have explicitly and proudly admitted they won't change their stance, even if they know they're wrong) it becomes much less upsetting. You know the story of the frog carrying the scorpion across the river? You just have to realise at some point that being a helpful, well meaning frog won't change the deceitful, damaging scorpion, no matter how good your motives are. Just remember the problem is them, not you.

 

[Jim]

Hmm yes that "quote" is a good example of unacceptable verbal unpleasantness.

No matter how offensive the words might look to anyone including me, that is not the kind of behavior that I’m concerned about, in my discussions about harmful behavior.

Can you make up a similar "quote" of vilifying or disparaging posting but that uses politeness, diplomacy, kindness, friendliness, innocence, humility and best wishes, because that would seem to be mutually exclusive; I can't think how it might be done.

This won’t be a very good example but it’s the best I can think of for now. In a discussion with gays, “I have no right to judge anyone’s actions but my own. I have the warmest feelings for all of you, and wish you the best in life, in the path you have chosen. For myself, I’ve chosen to put God’s will and the good of humanity ahead of gratifying all of my sexual desires.”

NOTE: I am not trying to be anyone’s ally. Some of the ideas and interests in identity politics are opposed to mine.

 

[Secret Chief]

No matter how offense the words might look to anyone including me, that is not the kind of behavior that I’m concerned about, in my discussions about harmful behavior.

This won’t be a very good example but it’s the best I can think of for now. In a discussion with gays, “I have no right to judge anyone’s actions but my own. I have the warmest feelings for all of you, and wish you the best in life, in the path you have chosen. For myself, I’ve chosen to put God’s will and the good of humanity ahead of gratifying all of my sexual desires.”

NOTE: I am not trying to be anyone’s ally. Some of the ideas and interests in identity politics are opposed to mine.

OK I understand I was asking you to make up something. Given the fictional poster has an opposing viewpoint, that seems to me to be a reasonable and honest expression of their viewpoint. Just my perception of an imagined post. Perhaps in the "heat of the moment" it might seem more harmful?

 

[Spirit of Light]

Every now & then someone proposes negative frubals.
Can you imagine the carnage?
A forum I was once on (The History Channel) had a
downrating system. The only members with good scores
were brand new ones who hadn't p****d off anyone yet.
If we ever get'm here, it's flame on!

At least we finally got rid of those awards.

Wonder how many i have P****d off in RF the time i been a member

 

[Jim]

OK I understand I was asking you to make up something. Given the fictional poster has an opposing viewpoint, that seems to me to be a reasonable and honest expression of their viewpoint. Just my perception of an imagined post. Perhaps in the "heat of the moment" it might seem more harmful?

What I said was just for people to know that the behavior that looks the most offensive to other people is not always behavior that I think is harmful, and some behavior that I think is harmful might not look harmful at all to anyone else. There doesn’t need to be any agreement on what is harmful and what isn’t, for my ideas to work, for helping to reduce harmful behavior, and helping to reduce and counteract the damage.

 

[Secret Chief]

What I said was just for people to know that the behavior that looks the most offensive to other people is not always behavior that I think is harmful, and some behavior that I think is harmful might not look harmful at all to anyone else. There doesn’t need to be any agreement on what is harmful and what isn’t, for my ideas to work, for helping to reduce harmful behavior, and helping to reduce and counteract the damage.

I understand; so are you sharing your ideas?

 

[Jim]

Are you going to share them then on here? Or through "Conversations" with the staff?

I’ll share them if anyone wants me to. They have nothing to do with staff actions or policies.

 

[Jim]

I understand; so are you sharing your ideas?

I have shared them many times in other threads. I’ll share them again here, if anyone wants me to.

 

[Secret Chief]

I have shared them many times in other threads. I’ll share them again here, if anyone wants me to.

Please do. (Sorry I've not seen you post them before).

 

[Twilight Hue]

The best advice I can give is people have just got to start developing that good ol' teflon personality.

If anything can make a person goes insane it's their own sensitivity. That and your own mind can be your own worst enemy.

To be perfectly honest, this forum is pretty mild to medium even at its 'worst'.

If anybody here remembers the old (now defunct) forum Buddha chat..... Hoo boy! What a wild ride that place was!

 

[Jim]

Please do.

No matter how much I like or dislike a post, no matter how entertaining or informative it is, If I see anything in it that I think is harmful, I don’t respond to it in any way, not even to argue or protest against it. No rating, no comment, no mention of it in my posts. Sometimes I give some friendly attention to people who might be harmed by that behavior.

To free myself from any prejudices and delusions that I might have without being aware of them, I’ve spent a lot of time in Internet discussions with people whose ideas and interests were opposed to mine, trying to see things their way and see the good in what they were doing. Some examples of that have been with gay activists, people promoting orientation change, atheists, people promoting identity politics, and people promoting some trinity beliefs.

 

[Jim]

Please do.

I”ll list some issues that have concerned me, and say briefly how I’ve been learning to respond to them.
- People vilifying and disparaging each other across religious and political divide:. Learning not to do it myself, not giving any attention to other people when they’re doing it, and giving friendly attention to people when they are targets of it.
- Long term psychological damage to people sometimes from popular stereotypes and prejudices about groups and categories of people: Spending time with some of the people whose ideas ideas and interests are most opposed to mine, trying to see things their way and see the good in what they’re doing.
- Behavior that stirs up emotional turmoil: Learning not to respond to some kinds of posts and not to respond to some people. Not pisting until I can do it with genuinely friendly feelings. Learning to respond to some behavior that infuriates me by discussing the issues it raises for me, without pointing fingers.
- People persistently misrepresenting what a person is trying to say or diverting attention from it: After a series of posts like that, posting an update on the topic of discussion and what’s been said.
- Putting a lot of time and effort into a discussion with someone. and then finding out that what it was really about for them was not at all what I thought it was: Learning not to put in a lot of time and effort until I see where the discussion is going.

 

[Revoltingest]

Wonder how many i have P****d off in RF the time i been a member

Whatever the number, it pales in comparison to my record.
So you have your work cut out for you.