Right to Contraception Act.

[Shaul]

That's requiring healthcare to cover it. Anthem Blue Cross and United Health Care aren't government agencies spending tax dollars.

It is a government requirement for the service to be paid. It could be either via private insurance OR through a government program such as Tri-care or Medicare. In either case it is forced payment. It is includes both using Federal funds and an unfunded mandate. Just as I wrote. I didn't use the term tax. Don't try to put words in my mouth.

 

[Shaul]

There is a enormous difference between giving away free contraceptives to the citizens, and imposing something on them.
However....if a woman has sex without contraceptives and has multiple unwanted pregnancies and multiple abortions, I guess the Ministry of Health might suggest her a surgery of permanent sterilization. Without impositions.

And? Such differences are not the point. The point is the basis is the same. To wit, government control of reproduction. If you give the government power it will use it in deleterious ways sooner or later. That is why those that prefer limited government don't agree with you that it should have control of health care.

 

[Shaul]

No Libertarians don't agree with state coercion (like denying access to contraception as a state policy), not that voluntary association with others cannot be used for mutual good (like making the benefits of contraceptives available to all as an economically sound policy).

"Libertarian philosopher Roderick T. Long defines libertarianism as "any political position that advocates a radical redistribution of power from the coercive state to voluntary associations of free individuals", whether "voluntary association" takes the form of the free market or of communal co-operatives."

Libertarians don't want state denial of access to contraception AND they don't want government providing contraception nor promoting it. They want both things. This Bill promotes contraception services. Libertarians, on principle, don't support government-provided health care. They advocate for a free market solution for contraception services.

 

[Estro Felino]

And? Such differences are not the point. The point is the basis is the same. To wit, government control of reproduction. If you give the government power it will use it in deleterious ways sooner or later. That is why those that prefer limited government don't agree with you that it should have control of health care.

If someone doesn't want any kids, the State has the obligation to help them not have them. Through free contraceptives and free healthcare.

The so called liberals crave for babies from the poorest classes because they need slaves to exploit and underpay. That is why they are against any form of contraception.

 

[Pogo]

Libertarians don't want state denial of access to contraception AND they don't want government providing contraception nor promoting it. They want both things. This Bill promotes contraception services. Libertarians, on principle, don't support government-provided health care. They advocate for a free market solution for contraception services.

Not all Libertarians are dogmatically committed to the "free market" religion.

The so called liberals crave for babies from the poorest classes because they need slaves to exploit and underpay. That is why they are against any form of contraception.

I think you command of English and American politics may have slipped here.

 

[Shaul]

If someone doesn't want any kids, the State has the obligation to help them not have them. Through free contraceptives and free healthcare.

You opinion.

The so called liberals crave for babies from the poorest classes because they need slaves to exploit and underpay. That is why they are against any form of contraception.

Erroneous and also a false dichotomy.

 

[Shaul]

Not all Libertarians are dogmatically committed to the "free market" religion.

The ole "no True Scotsman" error.

I think you command of English and American politics may have slipped here.

I presume you meant "your" command. If you strive to avoid the actual subject by putative critique of linguist usage please use proper grammar yourself.

 

[Pogo]

The ole "no True Scotsman" error.

Yes on your part, not all Libertarians are defined by a slavish belief in unrestricted free market economics.

 

[Shaul]

Yes on your part, not all Libertarians are defined by a slavish belief in unrestricted free market economics.

I never said they were. What I did do was to provide a quote from the official Libertarian Party web site which gives their position on whether the government should be involved in health care. It is it again,

"Libertarians believe that healthcare prices would decrease and quality and availability of healthcare would increase if providers were freed from government meddling and control."

They also stated,

"In short, Libertarians believe that each person has the right to make their own medical decisions. Libertarians support removing government meddling from healthcare."

That is the Libertarian Party official position.

 

[Pogo]

I never said they were. What I did do was to provide a quote from the official Libertarian Party web site which gives their position on whether the government should be involved in health care. It is it again,

"Libertarians believe that healthcare prices would decrease and quality and availability of healthcare would increase if providers were freed from government meddling and control."

They also stated,

"In short, Libertarians believe that each person has the right to make their own medical decisions. Libertarians support removing government meddling from healthcare."

That is the Libertarian Party official position.

A generic statement in bold, and the second statement is what this thread is about, removing the government meddling in a personal medical decision.

Libertarianism is also not about not helping others if that makes all better off. It is not about I have mine so I don't care though some behave that way and is a large reason that Libertarians are often dismissed as cranks.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'll give you something more revelant as to why these things happen.

It's called the nanny state, a cancer to people's personal and economic freedoms that enables things like this.

Nanny state - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

We've all asked for examples. Please provide actual examples.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Some think that abortion will be a key to the upcoming election. It won't be. Abortion is way down the list of the top issue for voters. Voters are far more concerned about bread and butter issues.

Gallup poll on top voter issues

But Democrats and Leftists (sorry for the redundancy) know they can't succeed talking about bread and butter issues. So they prefer to change the subject. Leftists are self delusional.

I think it's delusional to think that reproductive rights aren't going to come into play, as Republicans across the country continue to strip them away from women.

Remember all the protests with the p**** hats? Don't underestimate women.

 

[Shaul]

I think it's delusional to think that reproductive rights aren't going to come into play, as Republicans across the country continue to strip them away from women.

Remember all the protests with the p**** hats? Don't underestimate women.

I didn't write that it would have no impact. I wrote that it won't be a top issue. Women don't vote solely based upon the abortion issue. Other issues will be more important.

 

[Twilight Hue]

We've all asked for examples. Please provide actual examples.

I already explained the examples in the past.

Just peruse my post history because I have no desire to regurgitate over and over the same things all the time. That's what the RF search feature is for.

 

[Pogo]

I already explained the examples in the past.

Just peruse my post history because I have no desire to regurgitate over and over the same things all the time. That's what the RF search feature is for.

I think it's delusional to think that reproductive rights aren't going to come into play, as Republicans across the country continue to strip them away from women.

Remember all the protests with the p**** hats? Don't underestimate women.

Some think that abortion will be a key to the upcoming election. It won't be. Abortion is way down the list of the top issue for voters. Voters are far more concerned about bread and butter issues.

Gallup poll on top voter issues

But Democrats and Leftists (sorry for the redundancy) know they can't succeed talking about bread and butter issues. So they prefer to change the subject. Leftists are self delusional.

What is delusional is the attitudes represented by the Magadonian subjects of that poll, It reads like the list of Republican gaslighting that it is. The biggest danger to America on pretty much all of these concerns is the potential that Trump will be elected and carry through on his promises. His tax cuts are the primary driver behind the current deficit. He wants to institute more tarifs which will only drive prices up driving up inflation. Unemployment is already so low that producers are being forced to use child labor. We desperately need an infusion of labor willing to work the low wage jobs Americans refuse to do unless you propose to force people to do them and then create even more problems by abandoning their children or raising their wages to allow them to provide childcare.
And I could go down the whole list, Yes they are problems, half of us know that Trump's solutions will exacerbate them and the other half have been suckered into believing his lies. The Republican party has abandoned any pretence to any sort of moral stand point.

And then we have that large contingent that could recognize this but has theirs and doesn't care what happens to anyone else.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I already explained the examples in the past.

So you do mean plastic bags and gas stoves?
For real?

Just peruse my post history because I have no desire to regurgitate over and over the same things all the time. That's what the RF search feature is for.

 

[Pogo]

So you do mean plastic bags and gas stoves?
For real?

Yeah a search of his posts by an AI would return a 3 letter summary, MEH.

 

[Twilight Hue]

So you do mean plastic bags and gas stoves?
For real?

It does take away people's choices. That's why people's choices on reproductive issues are affected by the same mechanisms of the nanny state.

Big or little it's all very serious when people's right to choose are being stripped away by this legal cancer.

 

[fantome profane]

I have no desire to regurgitate over and over the same things

Glad to hear that. But I am sure no one feels any desire to sort through anything you have puked up previously either.

 

[metis]

Exactly. There are more important things going on than reproductive issues.

Unless you're the one caught in a bind.