Rishi Sunak

[LuisDantas]

"Project Fear."

Oh yeah. I almost forgot how flamed people were about that boogeyman.


Irony is too mild a word.

 

[LuisDantas]

I remember going to London and being amazed that they have a very efficient, very cheap bus service...

Where I was there was a bus every 2 hours more expensive for a 2 miles journey than a bus from Islington to Victoria.

Found that shops like Waitrose existed as brick and mortar shops and that Pret a Manger wasn't French.

Found that people live in a weird, weird world I had previously not known about.

It's is angering.

It probably should be.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Hang on, I was quite liking you.

On the basis of shaking his hand I could tell he's a decent bloke. (Same with JC).

I’ve met Jeremy a few times, as I work very close to his constituency office in Finsbury Park. He’s always been happy to stop for a chat, and is well loved in this part of North London. I don’t think he should ever have been leader of the Labour Party, but as a constituency MP he’ll be missed. He’s not my MP though. That’s the excellent Catherine West.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I remember going to London and being amazed that they have a very efficient, very cheap bus service...

Where I was there was a bus every 2 hours more expensive for a 2 miles journey than a bus from Islington to Victoria.

Found that shops like Waitrose existed as brick and mortar shops and that Pret a Manger wasn't French.

Found that people live in a weird, weird world I had previously not known about.

It's is angering.

We owe out first rate public transport service to Ken Livingstone. Before him, the buses were atrocious. He showed what can be achieved for the working people of a city, when the political will is there.

Andy Burnham is striving for a similarly transforming impact in Manchester, I’m hearing. It’s no coincidence that both are working class guys with strong ties to their respective regions (not sure how Mancunians feel about having a Scouse mayor though tbf)

 

[Secret Chief]

It's is angering.

Specifically...?

 

[Secret Chief]

I’ve met Jeremy a few times, as I work very close to his constituency office in Finsbury Park. He’s always been happy to stop for a chat, and is well loved in this part of North London. I don’t think he should ever have been leader of the Labour Party, but as a constituency MP he’ll be missed. He’s not my MP though. That’s the excellent Catherine West.

Lucky you. We currently have a brexit-promoting Johnson-admiring tory. Wisely she's decided not to stand at the next election. She's going back home, miles away (before she loses her seat anyway).

 

[Rival]

Specifically...?

Because we, nor anywhere else in England, has anything like London re transport, shopping, opportunity, etc. London may as well be its own country. If you look at the rail network it's centred on London after all the disastrous Beeching Cuts. I can find bookshops, libraries, etc. in London that I can't find in the North, but can find in the rest of the SE. I didn't know what Waterstones was before I was in the South. I didn't know where people bought goth clothes from or got Pagan things. I realised there are actual religious communities in London that exist nowhere else in England. It's its own universe.

The rest of Britain ought to have such opportunity and I know we have the money for it, and it needs to be accessible to rural people as well as urbanites.

 

[Secret Chief]

Because we, nor anywhere else in England, has anything like London re transport, shopping, opportunity, etc. London may as well be its own country. If you look at the rail network it's centred on London after all the disastrous Beeching Cuts. I can find bookshops, libraries, etc. in London that I can't find in the North, but can find in the rest of the SE. I didn't know what Waterstones was before I was in the South. I didn't know where people bought goth clothes from or got Pagan things. I realised there are actual religious communities in London that exist nowhere else in England. It's its own universe.

The rest of Britain ought to have such opportunity and I know we have the money for it, and it needs to be accessible to rural people as well as urbanites.

As I said, I live in the north in an average sized town. The likes of Waterstones and Waitrose are not just in the SE, they are national companies. There is a Waterstones in my town. There is a Waitrose is in a nearby (even smaller) town. You never been to Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham? Big cities with all the things you seem to think are only in London.

Furthermore London has some of the poorest areas of the country (because of the high cost of accommodation). The government's own figures:

 

[Rival]

As I said, I live in the north in an average sized town. Waterstones and Waitrose (your examples) are not just in the SE, they are national companies. There is a Waterstones In my town. There is a Waitrose is in a nearby (even smaller) town. You never been to Manchester, Leeds, Birmingham? Big cities with all the things you seem to think are only in London.

Furthermore London has some of the poorest areas of the country (because of the high cost of accommodation). The government's own figures:

View attachment 83780

No, I have lived my life in small villages with access only to small towns. I did not even realise people lived in cities until I was a teenager. True story. My grandma told me the same. I thought cities were just for working and shopping. The decline of opportunities in small towns is the problem. Everyone is just talking about cities all the time, and no I've never been to any of those you listed. None of my family live in cities. I'm the first to move to a city, Canterbury.

The countryside/small town experience is really not the same.

 

[Secret Chief]

No, I have lived my life in small villages with access only to small towns. I did not even realise people lived in cities until I was a teenager. True story. My grandma told me the same. I thought cities were just for working and shopping. The decline of opportunities in small towns is the problem. Everyone is just talking about cities all the time, and no I've never been to any of those you listed. None of my family live in cities. I'm the first to move to a city, Canterbury.

The countryside/small town experience is really not the same.

I'm sure, but leaving the EU was never going to change the relative statuses of villages, towns and cities. You're a fan of capitalism I believe - do you think there'd ever be a Waterstones in a village...? Would leaving the EU make a village a more attractive proposition for M&S? A small village was a small village even before we joined the EEC.

 

[Rival]

I'm sure, but leaving the EU was never going to change the relative statuses of villages, towns and cities. You're a fan of capitalism I believe - do you think there'd ever be a Waterstones in a village...? Would leaving the EU make a village a more attractive proposition for M&S?

I don't mean in the villages ought to have those chain stores, I mean in the dying small towns which are accessible to the villagers ought have these chain shops and be able to deliver to the villages.

But also yes, villages used to be very self-sufficient, with pubs, post offices etc. In my lifetime many of these have closed, as have small shops, local businesses etc. that allowed villages to remain self-sufficient. They used to have the ability to sustain themselves in periods of, say, heavy snow, when movement was limited. Many villages would not survive this now, with no grocery shops, pubs, post offices, pharmacies etc. They are empty wastelands. I go visit my mother in France the villages are much more self-reliant, bakers, cafes etc. available run by local families.

This no longer exists in England.

Pubs in villages gave a village a sense of community and now that has completely died. We used to be able to get prescriptions easily and send our post, but no longer can. We have to go elsewhere to do things that used to be available to us. Bad transport makes this even worse. It also leads to a sense of nationalism as English people rather than 'our village', which seems heinous to most people. We lack a sense of cohesive community which we need in order to exist.

 

[Secret Chief]

I don't mean in the villages ought to have those chain stores, I mean in the dying small towns which are accessible to the villagers ought have these chain shops and be able to deliver to the villages.

But also yes, villages used to be very self-sufficient, with pubs, post offices etc. In my lifetime many of these have closed, as have small shops, local businesses etc. that allowed villages to remain self-sufficient. They used to have the ability to sustain themselves in periods of, say, heavy snow, when movement was limited. Many villages would not survive this now, with no grocery shops, pubs, post offices, pharmacies etc. They are empty wastelands. I go visit my mother in France the villages are much more self-reliant, bakers, cafes etc. available run by local families.

This no longer exists in England.

But what has this to do with the EU? (Hint: France is still in the EU).

 

[Rival]

But what has this to do with the EU? (Hint: France is still in the EU).

I think you'd need to live there to understand the small-town mindset. We believe the economic downturn was due to EU membership through international companies overtaking local family run businesses, the preference for multinationalism, leading local business to close. This is seen in towns too. We noticed that the most cosmopolitan places have the best standards of living and think well... you've left us behind! Why does our internet still not work? Why don't our TVs have signal? Why, despite EU funding, are we still ****? There was also a lot of cheap meat products coming from EU countries that pig farmers like my dad hated, knowing how well we treated our pigs compared to them. We noticed that local produce was being disfavoured. We noticed that underpaid agency workers were being abused, not taken care of by either the EU or us; Poles who were working for half the money, longer hours, no benefits/perks, but being preferred to local workers due to cheap labour. All these things come together to make you look with distain on internationalism.

 

[Secret Chief]

I think you'd need to live there to understand the small-town mindset. We believe the economic downturn was due to EU membership through international companies overtaking local family run businesses, the preference for multinationalism, leading local business to close. This is seen in towns too. We noticed that the most cosmopolitan places have the best standards of living and think well... you've left us behind! Why does our internet still not work? Why don't our TVs have signal? Why, despite EU funding, are we still ****? There was also a lot of cheap meat products coming from EU countries that pig farmers like my dad hated, knowing how well we treated our pigs compared to them. We noticed that local produce was being disfavoured. We noticed that underpaid agency workers were being abused, not taken care of by either the EU or us; Poles who were working for half the money, longer hours, no benefits/perks, but being preferred to local workers due to cheap labour. All these things come together to make you look with distain on internationalism.

And how's the NHS now it has that £350 million?

Has immigration gone down up or down since brexit?

"UK net migration hits all-time record at 504,000"​

- The rise is driven by people arriving legally from outside the EU and the resumption of post-pandemic travel.

Did you believe the promises of the leave campaigners?
Do you see now that you were lied to?

 

[Rival]

And how's the NHS now it has that £350 million?
Did you believe the promises of the leave campaigners?

No.

For goodness' sake I wish you guys would drop this.

Leavers were anti-EU for decades before the referendum. We hated and distrusted Westminster just as much then as we do now. We would have voted Leave even if we'd have been told it would lead to nuclear war. We didn't need anyone to give us reasons, we already had them. This is why there was a vote itfp.

 

[Secret Chief]

We would have voted Leave even if we'd have been told it would lead to nuclear war.

Just a shame that we all have to live with the consequences of this attitude.

PS edited my post.

 

[Rival]

Just a shame that we all have to live with the consequences of this attitude.

PS edited my post.

Immigration seems to have gone up.

It's sad.

#anticosmo
#Nationalism
#Onelanguage
#Onejsuticesystem
#Onereligon
#Etc.

 

[Secret Chief]

Immigration seems to have gone up.

It's sad.

#anticosmo
#Nationalism
#Onelanguage
#Onejsuticesystem
#Onereligon
#Etc.

Errrr ... what are these hashtags ?

 

[Yerda]

I believe the NHS in its current state is unsustainable and would support a French or German style healthcare model. But it seems in Britain there are 2 models available, either totally nationalised or totally privatised, neither of which have worked as well as those Continental systems.

Guide to Health Insurance and Healthcare System in France | InterNations

InterNations provides you what you need to know about health insurance and the healthcare system in France. Learn about costs, hospitals and much more.

www.internations.org

The NHS has seen better days, it's true.

I just can't understand why it's so bad now, after 13 years of being chronically mismanaged by people ideologically opposed to public services, who've been taking millions of pounds from private healthcare insurers and providers for decades. A real mystery.

 

[LuisDantas]

No.

For goodness' sake I wish you guys would drop this.

Leavers were anti-EU for decades before the referendum. We hated and distrusted Westminster just as much then as we do now. We would have voted Leave even if we'd have been told it would lead to nuclear war. We didn't need anyone to give us reasons, we already had them. This is why there was a vote itfp.

You realize that is not a good look, right?

At least some of the changes that you regret are not only not related to the EU in any way, shape or form, but also mainly unavoidable consequences of raised expectations of consumption, demographic levels and access to technology.

It is fair and proper to point out that small business isn't nearly as viable and vital as it was even a few short decades ago. But I am at a loss trying to understand why Brexit would help there in any way. Nor do I understand what you would hope for as an alternate and better scenario, unless you are talking about some form of determined effort at isolation and loss of modern conveniences - perhaps something akin to turning in large numbers to an Amish-like lifestyle.

That could perhaps work, but I don't think it is really anywhere near what so many Brexit supporters aim for. And it definitely would hurt rather than help the UK's relevance in the global scene.

Perhaps Brexit isn't inherently contradictory and misinformed... but I sure am having the hardest of times trying to find any indication that it might not be.