Rittenhouse. What an American Hero. Will Biden apologise?

[Debater Slayer]

I don't know enough about the situation or the trial to comment on him being guilty of murder. I have found the whole affair to be useful way of spotting the nazis in our midst though. Thanks OP.

Before I became interested enough to look up more details of the trial, one of the first things I noticed was the political makeup of the majority of groups and media outlets who were most vocal about supporting Rittenhouse: far-right ideologues such as Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlson, Evangelicals who support theocratic and abusive legislation, and even white supremacists such as the Proud Boys, among others.

Rittenhouse himself might not necessarily share any of these groups' beliefs—and I realize that many of his supporters don't either—but when certain groups often harbor many individuals who have harmful and inaccurate views about the world and various issues of considerable importance, it raises red flags when most of them seem to so strongly agree on supporting someone.

 

[ChristineM]

Where?

Post #63

I think you missed my point:

Your quote was

I'm not really interested in how anybody feels about all this or what people in other countries think of the American judicial system, politics, etc..

And my point is i see no point in continuing

 

[Twilight Hue]

He was properly tried under the law and found innocent.

That pretty much settled the matter and it must be accepted.

There's only forward.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Sorry, not taking the bait.

It's a serious question.

 

[Quagmire]

Post #63



Your quote was



And my point is i see no point in continuing

My point was we should be discussing facts, not feelings.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I'm not really interested in how anybody feels about all this or what people in other countries think of the American judicial system, politics, etc..

Thankfully, a significant subset of Americans share most of the opinions expressed by non-Americans in this thread and others about the trial. I say "thankfully" because that gives me hope that the primary causes of the incident, such as (in my opinion) insufficient police presence and/or preparedness and unreasonable gun laws, may be addressed in the future. It certainly looks like a strong possibility given that younger voters often lean left on these specific issues.

All I'm saying is that if we're going to be talking about this and posting our opinions and conclusions on the internet, we all have a responsibility to make sure we're basing those conclusions on accurate, and to whatever extent possible, complete information.

In the post I responded to you claimed that Rittenhouse crossed state lines with an illegal gun. That rumor, along with a lot of other rumors that have been circulating from the beginning has been debunked. It may seem like a small detail in the bigger picture but it suggests to me that you've only heard one side of the story.

The video gives everybody a chance to hear Rittenhouse's side of things.

I agree people should try to be as thorough and accurate as possible with facts before forming an opinion. I view Rittenhouse as reckless and irresponsible myself, but I don't think that's a reason to spread misinformation or rumors about him. Hopefully he will still live with the consequences of what he actually did rather than get off scot-free. Going by the fact that he may well end up facing civil suits as well as social stigma due to his actions, I think that may end up being the case.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because there are all sorts of other possible motivations at play in situations like this. A desire to "protect others" is only one possible factor, and in my experience, not one of the more likely ones.

And it certainly isn't something that should just be assumed as if it were the only option.



Yes I did. What's your point?

Okay - so you're aware of what Rittenhouse said:

- Grosskreutz had an opportunity to engage in violence in their first interaction, but he only documented Rittenhouse with his phone and backed off when Rittenhouse said he was turning himself in to the police.

- Grosskreutz approached Rittenhouse (and Huber) the second time to render first aid to Huber.

- Rittenhouse confirmed that he did move his hand in a way that could have reasonably been taken in the moment as re-racking his gun.

- Rittenhouse also confirmed that Grosskreutz had his hands up until Rittenhouse made that action, and only at that point did Grosskreutz point his gun at Rittenhouse.

... so what other motivation have you dreamed up that fits this chain of events?

 

[esmith]

I concur with the Penguin, we have all 3. American gun laws are a patchwork where locally strict laws neighbor areas with lax laws.

Your sentence does not make sense to me.....

 

[Estro Felino]

Gaige Grosskreutz was there as a volunteer medic to provide first aid to anyone who needed it.

I did see the footage. Was he chasing him because he wanted to aid him?

 

[Debater Slayer]

He was properly tried under the law and found innocent.

That pretty much settled the matter and it must be accepted.

There's only forward.

So was O. J. Simpson. On the flip side, Rubin Carter was wrongfully convicted of murder and lost two decades of his life to that wrongful conviction.

I'll say it again: unquestioning trust in the soundness of the legal system and judges is the road to hell. Don't believe me? Just look at countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia and ask yourself whether you'd agree with their legal systems and trials for "crimes" like blasphemy and homosexuality.

 

[Quagmire]

It's a serious question.

I'm not advocating anything other than that people stop and take a look at the whole picture and try to form a realistic grasp on the situation before declaring what the problem is.

There are a whole lot of problems that went into the making of this situation.

 

[Ashoka]

He was properly tried under the law and found innocent.

That pretty much settled the matter and it must be accepted.

There's only forward.

"I am no longer accepting the things I cannot change. I am changing the things I cannot accept" - Angela Davis

 

[Twilight Hue]

So was O. J. Simpson. On the flip side, Rubin Carter was wrongfully convicted of murder and lost two decades of his life to that wrongful conviction.

I'll say it again: unquestioning trust in the soundness of the legal system and judges is the road to hell. Don't believe me? Just look at countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia and ask yourself whether you'd agree with their legal systems and trials for "crimes" like blasphemy and homosexuality.

I don't disagree but realistically there's nothing anyone can do about it. It's pretty much over now.

Maybe a civil action will follow like in the case involving OJ.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think you missed my point:

It happens often when there's partisan controversy.
To some he's a hero.
To others he's a mass murderer.
Each side will focus upon details that reinforce their view.

 

[Quagmire]

Okay - so you're aware of what Rittenhouse said:

- Grosskreutz had an opportunity to engage in violence in their first interaction, but he only documented Rittenhouse with his phone and backed off when Rittenhouse said he was turning himself in to the police.

- Grosskreutz approached Rittenhouse (and Huber) the second time to render first aid to Huber.

- Rittenhouse confirmed that he did move his hand in a way that could have reasonably been taken in the moment as re-racking his gun.

- Rittenhouse also confirmed that Grosskreutz had his hands up until Rittenhouse made that action, and only at that point did Grosskreutz point his gun at Rittenhouse.

I agree there's a good chance that Grosskreutz's motives were mostly beneficent. But then you have to wonder why he brought a gun with him in the first place.

That doesn't automatically speak to the motives of the other two victims though
..

... so what other motivation have you dreamed up that fits this chain of events?

I don't have to "dream up" anything.

I've been in situations where shot were being fired and mobs were converging, and I know from experience that there's no point in trying to explain any of it to someone who obviously hasn't been.

 

[Quagmire]

It happens often when there's partisan controversy.
To some he's a hero.
To others he's a mass murderer.
Each side will focus upon details that reinforce their view.

And IMO both sides are full of @!%#$!

 

[ChristineM]

My point was we should be discussing facts, not feelings.

I provided facts in the minimum age to carry guns in both Wisconsin and Illinois. No feelings involved in state laws

 

[Revoltingest]

Here's a fun news item.
Good on the Democrat Party for giving Ms Lemanski the boot.
Illinois county Democrat loses social media manager job over Waukesha, Rittenhouse tweets
Excerpted....
A social media manager for the Democratic Party in DuPage County in Illinois was removed from the job for tweets comparing the driver of an SUV that barreled through a Christmas parade in Wisconsin to Kyle Rittenhouse.

"It was probably just self-defense #Wisconsin #Kyle Rittenhouse," Mary Lemanski tweeted of Sunday's violence in Waukesha that killed five people and injured more than 40 others, according to the Chicago Tribune.

Her tweet was a nod to 18-year-old Rittenhouse's acquittal for all the charges he faced after he fatally shot two people and injured another during protests last summer in Kenosha, Wis., just more than 50 miles from Waukesha.

"I'm sad. I'm sad anytime anyone dies. I just believe in Karma and this came around quick on the citizens of Wisconsin," Lemanski said in another tweet, per the Tribune.

Ken Mejia-Beal, chairman of the DuPage Democratic Party, said in a statement on Twitter that the party "immediately severed all ties" with Lemanski upon finding out about her "callous and reprehensible posts."

 

[Revoltingest]

And IMO both sides are full of @!%#$!

So you use the British spelling of "@!%#*%^!", eh.

 

[Quagmire]

I provided facts in the minimum age to carry guns in both Wisconsin and Illinois. No feelings involved in state laws

Your reluctance to hear Rittenhouse's side of things seems emotion-based to me.

Sorry if I'm wrong.