Robots

[Sir Doom]

You've oversimplified that process way too much.

Feel free to complicate the process to the appropriate levels. Why are your genes coded exactly as they are and not some other way?

DNA doesn't just pop out of no where, it's coded completely by the originals.

I'm looking at my post and I'm pretty sure I didn't say it popped out of nowhere. I also said it was coded by the combination and self-replicated after that. I'm not exactly sure what you mean by 'originals' outside of your parents. Unless you are suggesting that the very first DNA strand ever was coded to eventually become you. I think you might have a hard time selling that opinion.

Wait.. why is there no such thing? And I'm pretty sure robots can and do know more than that.

What else do they know? This should be rich.

 

[PolyHedral]

We are actually the result of two DNA strands combining into one and then self-replicating after that. This process is similar in every dual-sex animal, but the resulting DNA strand is never the same twice. However subtle the difference it is still a difference. For this reason, despite the fact that this can be seen as a code, it is not specifically coded by anything to result in the results it results in.

The translator mechanism from DNA to protein is actually built into the cell itself, just like the translator from machine code to CPU behaviour is built into the CPU itself.

Because there is no such thing as need or want to a robot. It knows two things. Electricity on. And electricity off.

Your cells don't have needs or wants either.

Everything a robot does is governed by these two things. You can almost say it doesn't even see a difference between the two unless we build it to react differently to each one. Electricity enters in a predetermined way, and it exits in a predetermined way. No need or want for the robot at all.

Well, since the macroscopic laws of physics are basically deterministic, the same could be said about you. (Due to the law of large numbers, the underlying quantum mechanics get smeared out enough to be undetectable.)

What else do they know? This should be rich.

70% of all stock market trading is done by computer: If they could own property, they would be.

 

[Koldo]

no. the fact that crimes of passion occur disproves your argument...
there is absolutely no way to calculate how someone is to respond to the element of surprise...

Do you find this particularly relevant?
Doesn't this just mean the workings of the brain are still too complex to us?

 

[Sleeppy]

robots are able to form feelings about their meaningful relationships spontaneously?

cool...maybe you can set up a date with one...

If that's not an insult, I don't know what is.

what are you talking about...?
can you show me where i insulted you...?

and guess what...you just proved my point...your reaction to my post was not based on calculation...it was based on assumption...

Wow. Even so, assumptions do have calculations behind them.

 

[waitasec]

Do you find this particularly relevant?

jes...i do.
people are more than just "mimicking mechanisms with stimulus response patterns."

Doesn't this just mean the workings of the brain are still too complex to us?

no...it just means we are not programmed to respond to things in the same way every time...because of our capacity to improvise to an infinite variety of conditions...

 

[waitasec]

If that's not an insult, I don't know what is.

this is funny

obviously you are a robot. your sarcastic meter isn't programmed to respond to irony...

Wow. Even so, assumptions do have calculations behind them.

whatever you say hal 9000


now about that date with a robot....what is so insulting about that if you are the one contending it is possible?

 

[Sleeppy]

no. the fact that crimes of passion occur disproves your argument...
there is absolutely no way to calculate how someone is to respond to the element of surprise...

I don't know who'd agree with you. I'm pretty certain it's done everyday.

 

[Koldo]

jes...i do.
people are more than just "mimicking mechanisms with stimulus response patterns."

The black box known as consciousness which we are still unable to crack open.
It just means that, for now, we are not able to emulate it.

no...it just means we are not programmed to respond to things in the same way every time...because of our capacity to improvise to an infinite variety of conditions...

And why do you assume robots ought to programmed in a certain way that forces them to repond to things in the same way every time?

 

[Sleeppy]

this is funny

obviously you are a robot. your sarcastic meter isn't programmed to respond to irony...


whatever you say hal 9000


now about that date with a robot....what is so insulting about that if you are the one contending it is possible?

Right.. Admitting you're wrong, at least to yourself, might actually help you.. Instead of sidestepping it all.

 

[Sleeppy]

no...it just means we are not programmed to respond to things in the same way every time...because of our capacity to improvise to an infinite variety of conditions...

Looks like we've found who your god is. How could it possibly be an 'infinite variety?' Did you calculate that? Smh.

 

[waitasec]

Looks like we've found who your god is. How could it possibly be an 'infinite variety?' Did you calculate that? Smh.

chaos is limitless...


otherwise, we would be able to live in a closed system where we can calculate who the perfect spouse is for us, for example.
and calculate what choices we make with a contrived outcome.

sorry i don't live in that world...do you?

 

[waitasec]

Right.. Admitting you're wrong, at least to yourself, might actually help you.. Instead of sidestepping it all.

robots do not have a sense of humor....

 

[PolyHedral]

chaos is limitless...

A finite space contains only finite possibilities. It's fairly easy to demonstrate that.

otherwise, we would be able to live in a closed system where we can calculate who the perfect spouse is for us, for example.
and calculate what choices we make with a contrived outcome.

There are only a finite amount of possible humans. There's still orders of magnitude more then the number of possible games of chess, though.

 

[waitasec]

A finite space contains only finite possibilities. It's fairly easy to demonstrate that.

can you calculate the result of your choices?
if so, lets go to vegas

There are only a finite amount of possible humans.

i'm not sure i follow what you mean.

There's still orders of magnitude more then the number of possible games of chess, though.

such as?

 

[Sir Doom]

The translator mechanism from DNA to protein is actually built into the cell itself, just like the translator from machine code to CPU behaviour is built into the CPU itself.

So you mean DNA 'talks' to protein (other parts of the cell) through a built in mechanism of that same cell. Interesting. It controls its own parts, eh? Please show me a computer that does that. Also, the CPU translates machine code into what behavior exactly? I'm pretty sure it just emits more of the same code and doesn't translate anything. Its just designed to guide electricity in specific ways. Designed by us, built by us and coded by us. It can't do any of those things internally like a cell can.

Your cells don't have needs or wants either.

I'll give you need, but not want. Cells want lots of things. That's why they get lots of things. On their own or part of a collective depending on what type of cell you are talking about, of course.

Well, since the macroscopic laws of physics are basically deterministic, the same could be said about you. (Due to the law of large numbers, the underlying quantum mechanics get smeared out enough to be undetectable.)

Well, its your own fault for bringing up the law of large numbers...

When looking at the macroscopic laws of physics, life is the black swan event that should be ignored. We don't fit in. We don't follow the same rules as other bits of the universe. We are the object and the outside force acting on it at the same time. Nothing but life works this way. And as far as we know, its only happened once. Here. On Earth. One tiny little rock in a tiny little solar system in a tiny little galaxy in a universe of billions of galaxies. We are not a probable quantum event by any means.

70% of all stock market trading is done by computer: If they could own property, they would be.

You should say done ON computer, not by computer. Its always done by human beings. They don't do this for themselves, they were built to do it by us and for us. The end result is not money for a computer. Its money for a human.

 

[idav]

When we start replacing more than just organs we can begin replacing mind parts like more and faster memory access. Would I still be conscious if I was using a memory chip?

 

[mholder]

We're All Just Robots.. Humans Only Have More And Differing Options With Our Responses And Experiences Than Most Other Life Forms.. Or Actual Robots.

Let me know the next time a Robot creates a human life...then I will be happy to continue this discussion.

 

[apophenia]

When we start replacing more than just organs we can begin replacing mind parts like more and faster memory access. Would I still be conscious if I was using a memory chip?

Thing is, the memory chip model is absolutely nothing like neural wetware (not to mention the glial brain, which is usually ignored as if irrelevant, but constitutes half of the brain - we focus on the neural sytem as if that is the whole picture). I can imagine that the brain could learn to access and use digital enhancements, but memory in a human brain is nothing like the storage of ones and zeros. Reread the "is the internet conscious yet ?' thread, particularly the material linked by LegionOnomamoi, to get an appreciation of what a fundamentally inaccurate simplification the 'transistors equals neurones' idea is. That is comic book sci-fi, not cognitive science or neurophysiology.

 

[PolyHedral]

Thing is, the memory chip model is absolutely nothing like neural wetware (not to mention the glial brain, which is usually ignored as if irrelevant, but constitutes half of the brain - we focus on the neural sytem as if that is the whole picture). I can imagine that the brain could learn to access and use digital enhancements, but memory in a human brain is nothing like the storage of ones and zeros. Reread the "is the internet conscious yet ?' thread, particularly the material linked by LegionOnomamoi, to get an appreciation of what a fundamentally inaccurate simplification the 'transistors equals neurones' idea is. That is comic book sci-fi, not cognitive science or neurophysiology.

But the electronics can match the wetware interface. The actual implementation details don't matter to the brain.

 

[waitasec]

Let me know the next time a Robot creates a human life...then I will be happy to continue this discussion.

or paints a painting
or writes a song, or a poem...
dances
makes up stories

edit:
all robots being equal...
are they able to manipulate other robots?
are they capable of forgetting?