Role of Mahdi in Islam

[AdityaMookerjee]

The Promised one of Islam, the Mahdi, is a messianic figure, which was promised to come according to many Hadithes.

In Islam theology, What is the role of Mehdi?
Why should there be a need for the Mahdi?
How to recognize Him?

He is supposed to be alive. But, it seems, even the Shiite have not seen him. But he is alive for centuries, according to his aquaintances. I use the term aquaintance, because those who know him, follow Islam, and I believe, follow the Prophet of that religion.

 

[seeking4truth]

"He is supposed to be alive. But, it seems, even the Shiite have not seen him. But he is alive for centuries,"

It seems to me that this belief has been 'adopted' from Christian beliefs found in the countries where Islam superceded Christianity.
The idea that a prophet ascended to return at a later date to complete the work he began is a common theme in Judaism and Christianity. It is the spirit or power of God - Christos - that does this not the man himself.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

"He is supposed to be alive. But, it seems, even the Shiite have not seen him. But he is alive for centuries,"

It seems to me that this belief has been 'adopted' from Christian beliefs found in the countries where Islam superceded Christianity.
The idea that a prophet ascended to return at a later date to complete the work he began is a common theme in Judaism and Christianity. It is the spirit or power of God - Christos - that does this not the man himself.

Yes, I believe so too. Baha'is do not believe in a physical return of chosen ones and Messengers of God. Baha'i Scriptures does mention regarding the 12th Imam, Mahdi, Muḥammad ibn al-Ḥasan al-Mahdī, but by return, we believe it was meant the return of same spiritual quality, in a new person, who appeared as the Bab.

 

[seeking4truth]

"who appeared as the Bab."

What was the name of the 'Bab? How where and when did he die?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

"who appeared as the Bab."

Muhammad, the Son of Hasan. But not a literal return, or appearance.

Baha'u'llah wrote a treatise in reply to a seeker who had asked how the promised Mihdí could have become transformed into ‘Alí-Muhammad (the Báb).

I Quote from Baha'u'llah:​

"All that thou hast heard regarding Muhammad the son of Hasan—may the souls of all that are immersed in the oceans of the spirit be offered up for His sake—is true beyond the shadow of a doubt, and we all verily bear allegiance unto Him. But the Imáms of the Faith have fixed His abode in the city of Jábulqá, which they have depicted in strange and marvellous signs. To interpret this city according to the literal meaning of the tradition would indeed prove impossible, nor can such a city ever be found. Wert thou to search the uttermost corners of the earth, nay probe its length and breadth for as long as God’s eternity hath lasted and His sovereignty will endure, thou wouldst never find a city such as they have described, for the entirety of the earth could neither contain nor encompass it. If thou wouldst lead Me unto this city, I could assuredly lead thee unto this holy Being, Whom the people have conceived according to what they possess and not to that which pertaineth unto Him! Since this is not in thy power, thou hast no recourse but to interpret symbolically the accounts and traditions that have been reported from these luminous souls.​

....Know then that, inasmuch as all the Prophets are but one and the same soul, spirit, name, and attribute, thou must likewise see them all as bearing the name Muhammad and as being the son of Hasan.

....But as to Him Who appeared in the year sixty [The Bab], He standeth in need of neither transformation nor interpretation, for His name was Muhammad, and He was a descendent of the Imáms of the Faith. Thus it can be truly said of Him that He was the son of Hasan, as is undoubtedly clear and evident unto thine eminence." ​

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gems of Divine Mysteries (Javáhiru’l-Asrár), Pages 31-59

What was the name of the 'Bab? How where and when did he die?​

His Name was "Muhammad".​

"On the morning of July 9, 1850, the Báb was taken to the courtyard of the barracks in which he was being held, where thousands of people had gathered to watch his execution."​

Báb - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia​

 

[seeking4truth]

"his execution."

If this man was executed by men then without doubt he was not appointed or sent by God to do His work. God is all powerful, controller of the heavens and the earth no one could kill His servants.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

"his execution."

If this man was executed by men then without doubt he was not appointed or sent by God to do His work. God is all powerful, controller of the heavens and the earth no one could kill His servants.

Oh you mean, God controls people's free Will?
No, Baha'is do not believe God control's people's free Will.

 

[seeking4truth]

God does not control people's free will.
People may do as they like but He does protect those He gives responsibility to so they can complete their tasks so that the will of people to kill them does not succeed.
It is a very important point; one which gives certainty to the claims of those who are chosen by Him.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

God does not control people's free will.
People may do as they like but He does protect those He gives responsibility to so they can complete their tasks so that the will of people to kill them does not succeed.
It is a very important point; one which gives certainty to the claims of those who are chosen by Him.

I agree with what you say. and indeed in Baha'i view, the Bab fulfilled His mission before He was Martyred.
Also, let's remember, Quran says, there were many Messengers before Muhammad who were killed.

 

[seeking4truth]

"Also, let's remember, Quran says, there were many Messengers before Muhammad who were killed."

Please can you refer me to the verse that says this?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

"Also, let's remember, Quran says, there were many Messengers before Muhammad who were killed."

Please can you refer me to the verse that says this?

Say: "There came to you messengers before me, with clear Signs and even with what ye ask for: why then did ye slay them, if ye speak the truth?" 3:84

and there are more verses. But I think this one is sufficient.

 

[seeking4truth]

I do not find what you have quoted where you have quoted it. Please can you check.
Chapter (3) sūrat āl ʿim'rān (The Family of Imrān)


Sahih International: Say, "We have believed in Allah and in what was revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Descendants, and in what was given to Moses and Jesus and to the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and we are Muslims [submitting] to Him."
Pickthall: Say (O Muhammad): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and that which was vouchsafed unto Moses and Jesus and the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
Yusuf Ali: Say: "We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Moses, Jesus, and the prophets, from their Lord: We make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam)."
Shakir: Say: We believe in Allah and what has been revealed to us, and what was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and what was given to Musa and Isa and to the prophets from their Lord; we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
Muhammad Sarwar: (Muhammad), say, "We believe in God and in that which has been revealed to us and in that which was revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and their descendants. We believe in that which was given to Moses, Jesus, and the Prophets by their Lord. We make no distinction between them and we have submitted ourselves to the will of God".
Mohsin Khan: Say (O Muhammad SAW): "We believe in Allah and in what has been sent down to us, and what was sent down to Ibrahim (Abraham), Isma'il (Ishmael), Ishaque (Isaac), Ya'qub (Jacob) and Al-Asbat [the twelve sons of Ya'qub (Jacob)] and what was given to Musa (Moses), 'Iesa (Jesus) and the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between one another among them and to Him (Allah) we have submitted (in Islam)."
Arberry: Say: 'We believe in God, and that which has been sent down on us, and sent down on Abraham and Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes, and in that which was given to Moses and Jesus, and the Prophets, of their Lord; we make no division between any of them, and to Him we surrender.'

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Sorry, it's 3:183
al-Imran 3:183

 

[seeking4truth]

Chapter (3) sūrat āl ʿim'rān (The Family of Imrān)


Sahih International: [They are] those who said, "Indeed, Allah has taken our promise not to believe any messenger until he brings us an offering which fire [from heaven] will consume." Say, "There have already come to you messengers before me with clear proofs and [even] that of which you speak. So why did you kill them, if you should be truthful?"
Pickthall: (The same are) those who say: Lo! Allah hath charged us that we believe not in any messenger until he bring us an offering which fire (from heaven) shall devour. Say (unto them, O Muhammad): Messengers came unto you before me with miracles, and with that (very miracle) which ye describe. Why then did ye slay them? (Answer that) if ye are truthful!
Yusuf Ali: They (also) said: "Allah took our promise not to believe in an messenger unless He showed us a sacrifice consumed by Fire (From heaven)." Say: "There came to you messengers before me, with clear Signs and even with what ye ask for: why then did ye slay them, if ye speak the truth?"
Shakir: (Those are they) who said: Surely Allah has enjoined us that we should not believe in any messenger until he brings us an offering which the fire consumes. Say: Indeed, there came to you messengers before me with clear arguments and with that which you demand; why then did you kill them if you are truthful?
Muhammad Sarwar: (Muhammad), say to those who say, 'God has commanded us not to believe any Messenger unless he offers a burnt offering,' (Muhammad) say, "Messengers came to you before me with certain miracles and with that which you had asked for (burnt offering). Why, then, did you slay them if you were true in your claim?"
Mohsin Khan: Those (Jews) who said: "Verily, Allah has taken our promise not to believe in any Messenger unless he brings to us an offering which the fire (from heaven) shall devour." Say: "Verily, there came to you Messengers before me, with clear signs and even with what you speak of; why then did you kill them, if you are truthful?"
Arberry: Those same men said, 'God has made covenant with us, that we believe not any Messenger until he brings to us a sacrifice devoured by fire.' Say: 'Messengers have come to you before me bearing clear signs, and that you spoke of; why therefore did you slay them, if you speak truly?'




Notice that this verse finishes with the words - if you are truthful. Claims that they had killed the messengers were not truthful.

In particular it refers to the claims of Jews and Christians that Jesus was killed on the cross whereas the Holy Quran tells us that he was not killed even though he may have appeared to be dead. ie. he was unconscious.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

I would understand this verse differently than you.
I think The Key is: "Clear Proofs":
"There have already come to you messengers before me with clear proofs and [even] that of which you speak"


"The Clear Proofs" is what God is given to Messengers of God, but not false Messengers.
The next verse confirms this:

"And if they deny thee, even so did they deny messengers who were before thee, who came with miracles and with the Psalms and with the Scripture giving light." al-Imran 3:184

 

[InvestigateTruth]

In particular it refers to the claims of Jews and Christians that Jesus was killed on the cross whereas the Holy Quran tells us that he was not killed even though he may have appeared to be dead. ie. he was unconscious.

The Baha'i believe Jesus was crucified and died on the cross. His ascension is spiritual, not physical. The Baha'is do not believe Quran denies the crusifixion of Jesus.
There was a thread regarding that topic. you may refer to it.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/quranic-debates/140008-does-quran-deny-crucifixion-jesus-3.html <---See my post #25 in this thread for farther clarification.

 

[Rational_Mind]

Yes, I believe so too. Baha'is do not believe in a physical return of chosen ones and Messengers of God. Baha'i Scriptures does mention regarding the 12th Imam, Mahdi, Mu&#7717;ammad ibn al-&#7716;asan al-Mahd&#299;, but by return, we believe it was meant the return of same spiritual quality, in a new person, who appeared as the Bab.

Did the Bab himself claim to be a Prophet of God and Imam Mahdi? Are there statements written by him of his claim and how he fulfills the prophecies.

 

[seeking4truth]

""The Clear Proofs" is what God is given to Messengers of God, but not false Messengers."

I agree with this; without doubts clear proofs are given to support the messengers sent by God.

 

[seeking4truth]

"The Baha'i believe Jesus was crucified and died on the cross."

Jesus told those he preached to of one of his proofs.
Jesus said that the only sign that would be given to his generation was the sign of Jonah.
Matthew 12 v.40 "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth."

The significant point here is that Jonah was alive in the belly of the fish and recovered to continue his mision.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Did the Bab himself claim to be a Prophet of God and Imam Mahdi?

Yes, He did. He did that both in His Writings and also, as recorded Historical Evidence.

It is recorded from Him:


"I am, I am the Promised One! I am the One Whose name you have for a thousand years invoked, at Whose mention you have risen, Whose advent you have longed to witness, and the hour of Whose Revelation you have prayed God to hasten. Verily, I say, it is incumbent upon the peoples of both the East and the West to obey My word, and to pledge allegiance to My person."
Bahá'í Reference Library - God Passes By, Pages 17-34







The Name of His revelation is 'Bayan', which is mostly written in the style of Quran. In the Book Bayan God addressed Him (the Bab):

"He Who hath revealed the Qur&#8217;án unto Mu[FONT=Times Ext Roman,Times Ext Roman][FONT=Times Ext Roman,Times Ext Roman]&#7717;[/FONT][/FONT]ammad, the Apostle of God, ordaining in the Faith of Islám that which was pleasing unto Him, hath likewise revealed the Bayán, in the manner ye have been promised, unto Him (The Bab) Who is your Qá&#8217;im, your Guide, your Mihdí, your Lord, Him Whom ye acclaim as the manifestation of God&#8217;s most excellent titles. Verily the equivalent of that which God revealed unto Mu[FONT=Times Ext Roman,Times Ext Roman][FONT=Times Ext Roman,Times Ext Roman]&#7717;[/FONT][/FONT]ammad during twenty-three years, hath been revealed unto Me within the space of two days and two nights. However, as ordained by God, no distinction is to be drawn between the two. He, in truth, hath power over all things.

...O MY servants! This is God&#8217;s appointed Day which the merciful Lord hath promised you in His Book; wherefore, in very truth, glorify ye abundantly the name of God while treading the Path of the Most Great Remembrance... "
Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of the Báb, Page 139

Are there statements written by him of his claim and how he fulfills the prophecies.

Yes, there are many.
For example in the above quote from Bayan, the part that says:
"hath likewise revealed the Bayán, in the manner ye have been promised"

In Quran there is a verse that aludes to "Bayan" as a Book that God teaches, the same way He taught the Quran.

Likewise consider His words:
"I am the One Whose name you have for a thousand years invoked"

According to the Hadithes, the duration of Ummah of Muhammad is 1000 years, and then the Promised One comes. The Bab appeared exactly 1000 years after Islam Revelation.



Likewise in Bayan, in the same style of Quran which God talks:

"The Bayán is in truth Our conclusive proof for all created things, and all the peoples of the world are powerless before the revelation of its verses. It enshrineth the sum total of all the Scriptures, whether of the past or of the future, even as Thou art the Repository of all Our proofs in this Day. We cause whomsover We desire to be admitted into the gardens of our most holy, most sublime Paradise. Thus is divine revelation inaugurated in each Dispensation at Our behest. We are truly the supreme Ruler. Indeed no religion shall We ever inaugurate unless it be renewed in the days to come. This is a promise We solemnly have made. Verily We are supreme over all things... "

- Selections from the Writings of the Bab, p.74-75