Russia May Have Just Given Ukraine Terms for Ending War

[Subduction Zone]

I am an European citizen. I speak five European languages. I know what happens here.
Ukrainians didn't comply with the Minsk agreements.
That's why Putin invaded.

Please, you have no clue yourself. Don't go making claims about America when your own understanding of the situation is abysmal.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I want to prevent the United States from keeping using Ukrainian soldiers as cannon fodder.

Just keep telling yourself that. Wait, who invaded who?

 

[Stevicus]

Will that be acceptable?

"A top Kremlin official on Saturday suggested Russia could agree to an end to the war in Ukraine if a key condition is met.

During a press conference at the United Nations General Assembly, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov indicated Russia would recognize Ukraine's borders prior to Moscow's invasion if Kyiv pledges to not join a military alliance.

Since Russian President Vladimir Putin began the war on February 24, 2022, he and Kremlin officials have cited various justifications for the conflict. But one of the most frequently stated reasons is Putin's opposition to the expansion of NATO on his country's borders, and he is said to be especially against Ukraine becoming a member of the military bloc."

MSN

www.msn.com

Seems like pretty vague talk. Doubtful that such a proposal would be accepted, even if it is taken seriously.

 

[Estro Felino]

Just keep telling yourself that. Wait, who invaded who?

When Ukraine joins the EU, there will be no Washington DC any more to dictate the war agenda.

Because Ukraine will become a pacifist country, according to the EU standards, and the EU regulations about international law.

So Ukraine will be neither Russia's nor America's.
It will be European.

Refer this to Nuland, Soros and similar.

 

[Estro Felino]

Seems like pretty vague talk. Doubtful that such a proposal would be accepted, even if it is taken seriously.

Ukraine doesn't respect treaties and acts of alliance.
They didn't respect the Minsk agreements.

So the best thing to do with is that they join the EU, they rewrite their decadent constitution, and they exit the Middle Ages.

 

[sun rise]

I want to prevent the United States from keeping using Ukrainian soldiers as cannon fodder.

You don't understand that Ukrainians want to be free of Russian aggression and war crimes and to have their country back. We're supporting them as we should.

 

[Estro Felino]

You don't understand that Ukrainians want to be free of Russian aggression and war crimes and to have their country back. We're supporting them as we should.

But by joining the EU, they will have to renounce the warlike and intransigent approach that Washington DC has been imposing on them since 2014.
And by the way, I remind you that EU countries have stopped sending Ukrainians offensive weaponry, because that's the first step of their renovation.

Only UK and Norway are sending them offensive weapons. But they are not in the EU.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

No, where do you get that nonsense from? Sometimes America screws up. Sometimes America is doing the right thing. During WWII Italy screwed up big time. They were in the wrong and still got a sweetheart deal. We would have been justified in running roughshod over the country but we used restraint. If Russia had been attacking through Italy there would have been nothing left.

Definitely would have changed things had it been a then newer area of Rome instead of Hiroshima? One on both ends to assert total dominance with Uncle Sam making his mark right next to Ancient Rome?
And, yeah. What the Russians did to the Germans would utterly decimated Italy if they went there first. Stalin would have dropped the bomb on Rome before dropping one on Berlin (America likes Germany more so I don't think it would have dropped one there). Stalin could have done that amd sent in just enough of the Red Army to do there what they did in Germany, and probably still have enough to do still do what they did in Germany and have an easier time against any such a broken and defeated enemy. And it would have been called payback by the other Allies as surviving Axis leaders hanged.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Only UK and Norway are sending them offensive weapons. But they are not in the EU.

That's wrong.
List of military aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia
Is Canada using Ukranians in a proxy war? Does Australia want to overthrow Putin? Is Austria, Bulgaria and Albania in ot for the loot?

 

[Estro Felino]

That's wrong.
List of military aid to Ukraine during the Russo-Ukrainian War - Wikipedia
Is Canada using Ukranians in a proxy war? Does Australia want to overthrow Putin? Is Austria, Bulgaria and Albania in ot for the loot?

EU countries are different. Italy and Germany are EU countries.

Germany promised Ukraine weapons but hasn't delivered. Now, anger toward Berlin is rising

Germany's reticence has prompted critics to look for ulterior motives for its reluctance — with some citing World War II.

www.cnbc.com

Explainer: Why is Germany not sending Ukraine heavy weapons?

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is facing growing criticism at home and abroad for his government's failure to deliver heavy weapons to Ukraine to help it fend off Russian attacks, even as other Western allies step up shipments.

www.reuters.com

Italy will not be sending "offensive weapons" to Ukraine. Here is why - Technology Org

Italy rejected the idea of sending any kinds of offensive weapons to Ukraine, but defensive weapons may be supplied.

www.technology.org

 

[Shadow Wolf]

EU countries are different. Italy and Germany are EU countries.

Germany promised Ukraine weapons but hasn't delivered. Now, anger toward Berlin is rising

Germany's reticence has prompted critics to look for ulterior motives for its reluctance — with some citing World War II.

www.cnbc.com

Explainer: Why is Germany not sending Ukraine heavy weapons?

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz is facing growing criticism at home and abroad for his government's failure to deliver heavy weapons to Ukraine to help it fend off Russian attacks, even as other Western allies step up shipments.

www.reuters.com

Italy will not be sending "offensive weapons" to Ukraine. Here is why - Technology Org

Italy rejected the idea of sending any kinds of offensive weapons to Ukraine, but defensive weapons may be supplied.

www.technology.org

There's EU countries amd those being considered for future membership listed as having recently given and having pending deliveries.

 

[sayak83]

Will that be acceptable?

"A top Kremlin official on Saturday suggested Russia could agree to an end to the war in Ukraine if a key condition is met.

During a press conference at the United Nations General Assembly, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov indicated Russia would recognize Ukraine's borders prior to Moscow's invasion if Kyiv pledges to not join a military alliance.

Since Russian President Vladimir Putin began the war on February 24, 2022, he and Kremlin officials have cited various justifications for the conflict. But one of the most frequently stated reasons is Putin's opposition to the expansion of NATO on his country's borders, and he is said to be especially against Ukraine becoming a member of the military bloc."

MSN

www.msn.com

What about the conquered provinces. The war cannot end unless the provinces return to Ukraine. I do not think Putin has any intention of giving them back willingly. So Russia simply has to be militarily defeated and thrown out, or if a new leader cones who agree to do it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Will that be acceptable?

"A top Kremlin official on Saturday suggested Russia could agree to an end to the war in Ukraine if a key condition is met.

During a press conference at the United Nations General Assembly, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov indicated Russia would recognize Ukraine's borders prior to Moscow's invasion if Kyiv pledges to not join a military alliance.

Since Russian President Vladimir Putin began the war on February 24, 2022, he and Kremlin officials have cited various justifications for the conflict. But one of the most frequently stated reasons is Putin's opposition to the expansion of NATO on his country's borders, and he is said to be especially against Ukraine becoming a member of the military bloc."

MSN

www.msn.com

I paid particular attention to "if a key condition is met".
This means other conditions exist. So the announcement
sounds like disingenuous propaganda.

 

[exchemist]

That would not be acceptable for many reasons, the most obvious one being that Russia does not have a good track record on sticking to any agreement that it makes. Joining a military alliance with Russia would mean complete capitulation for Ukraine, since Russia would immediately assume full control of the entire country. Anyone who had played a role in resisting the advance would either be executed or imprisoned. All opposition would be crushed, the Ukrainian language and culture suppressed, and probably the assimilation of Moldova, as well. Next on the agenda would likely be an aggressive posture towards countries in central and western Europe. The Baltic countries would be pressured to leave NATO, and a land corridor to Kaliningrad could probably be another possibility for Russian expansion. China would also feel emboldened to pursue its expansionist policies in Asia, since Russia, a much less powerful country, would become an example of what could be achieved by naked aggression.

The notion that Ukraine join an alliance with Russia, after what has happened, is clearly insane. Who is suggesting that? Not Lavrov, surely? One of these trolls I have on Ignore, perhaps?

I agree entirely with what you say about Russia not being trusted to honour any agreement. However, given that Ukraine is not going to go to Moscow and force a total surrender, the only way to end this war will be via some kind of agreement. So perhaps minds should turn to what form of internationally policed guarantee there could be, to help give Ukraine confidence any agreement would be honoured, while not being rejected out of hand by Putin as a Western ploy. UN troops perhaps, from India, or Saudi Arabia? Even China?

 

[HonestJoe]

Will that be acceptable?

If it were a real offer, possibly (though that would be entirely up to the people of Ukraine) but I very much doubt it is real.

Given the timing, location and nature of the statement, it seems clear to me that it was simply a political move to feed the existing resistance to continued support for Ukraine from the West, especially in the US. There have already been people saying Ukraine should negotiate to end the fighting, even as the cost of land, so the suggestion of a very positive sounding outcome can only serve to strengthen those voices. Russia never has to follow through with anything of the sort, being easily capable of coming up with excuses for going back on exactly this kind of statement.

 

[F1fan]

I want to prevent the United States from keeping using Ukrainian soldiers as cannon fodder.

Well, just become King of the World and then you can pretty much order everyone to do what you say. Will you let Russia occupy Ukraine?

 

[Audie]

Will that be acceptable?

"A top Kremlin official on Saturday suggested Russia could agree to an end to the war in Ukraine if a key condition is met.

During a press conference at the United Nations General Assembly, Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov indicated Russia would recognize Ukraine's borders prior to Moscow's invasion if Kyiv pledges to not join a military alliance.

Since Russian President Vladimir Putin began the war on February 24, 2022, he and Kremlin officials have cited various justifications for the conflict. But one of the most frequently stated reasons is Putin's opposition to the expansion of NATO on his country's borders, and he is said to be especially against Ukraine becoming a member of the military bloc."

MSN

www.msn.com

Trust the Russians. Never.

 

[Revoltingest]

I want to prevent the United States from keeping using Ukrainian soldiers as cannon fodder.

You should find better things to want.
Things grounded in reality rather than
loopy conspiracy theories.

But if you really believe that aiding Ukraine
to defend against Putin's invasion is to
use "Ukrainian soldiers as cannon fodder",
then Italy is in on the conspiracy....

Italy's defense minister: New aid to Ukraine will probably include weapons to defend against missile attacks

Ukrainian authorities have conducted anti-corruption searches across the country, hours after President Volodymyr Zelensky promised "new reforms."

edition.cnn.com

Hey, wasn't it last month that Georege Soros
caused the war, not USA?
And before that, wasn't it the "banking elites"?
And weren't the Jews in there somewhere.
You either have one vast conspiracy, or dozens
of little ones that come & go like the weather.

 

[Estro Felino]

You should find better things to want.
Things grounded in reality rather than
loopy conspiracy theories.

As a jurist, I believe in bargains. Contracts.

If the POTUS signs an affidavit where he certifies that nobody in the US has ever bribed Zelenskyy in order to use Ukrainian soldiers as cannon fodder, I will be convinced.
Quid pro quo
Do ut des.

But if you really believe that aiding Ukraine
to defend against Putin's invasion is to
use "Ukrainian soldiers as cannon fodder",
then Italy is in on the conspiracy....

Italy's defense minister: New aid to Ukraine will probably include weapons to defend against missile attacks

Ukrainian authorities have conducted anti-corruption searches across the country, hours after President Volodymyr Zelensky promised "new reforms."

edition.cnn.com

Italy will not be sending "offensive weapons" to Ukraine. Here is why - Technology Org

Italy rejected the idea of sending any kinds of offensive weapons to Ukraine, but defensive weapons may be supplied.

www.technology.org

Italy and Germany will stop sending heavy weapons.

Hey, wasn't it last month that George Soros
caused the war, not USA?
And before that, wasn't it the "banking elites"?
And weren't the Jews in there somewhere.
You either have one vast conspiracy, or dozens
of little ones that come & go like the weather.

God knows the truth. This suffices to me.
He is the One who sends people to hell.

And if someone planned this war to steal resources from Russia, they will have their verdict by God.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well, just become King of the World and then you can pretty much order everyone to do what you say.

I thought the right answer would be "the US will not use Ukrainians as cannon fodder".
Not "you cannot do that".

Does it mean that the US do want to use them as cannon fodder?

Will you let Russia occupy Ukraine?

Russia is not a danger any more. They will non advance.
They just wanted those four regions.