Russia vs Ukraine gets closer to nuclear?

[TagliatelliMonster]

False flag? Xi isn't happy about it and that's supposed to be a false flag and propaganda?

It never ceases to amaze me how these Putin shills will swallow up anything Russian propaganda tells them, while they will pretend scepticism about actual factual reporting.

 

[Godobeyer]

"surrounded"?
Not even close.



That vid talks about a missile defence base in Poland that is considered a target by the Russians.
This is part of a missile shield. You know, to intercept incoming missiles. These aren't "missiles pointed at Russia".



So, just stand by and watch a dictator rape a sovereign country who's an aspiring NATO member?




This is just false.


Not even close.

View attachment 100365


Note the red rectangle. That's the only part where NATO even borders Russia. And the countries in the North only joined a couple months ago, on their own request as a direct result of Russia's invasion of Ukraine.
So before that, it was just that small border north of ukraine.

Even if ALL countries west of Russia would join, it still wouldn't account for more then 10% of Russia's borders with neighboring countries.

In what universe does this consist of "surrounding"?
Stop drinking the Russian kool-aid.

NATO surrounding Russia.... for crying out loud.

Since the NATO gave missiles to Poland,
it's mean the that Russia is considered as real threaten to Europe.

All allies of Russia, are destroyed or sanctioned., like Cuba, Venezuela, Iraq, Syria. N korea.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Since the NATO gave missiles to Poland,
it's mean the that Russia is considered as real threaten to Europe.

Have you considered WHY Russia is regarded as a threat to Europe and WHY countries are eager to join NATO and have military support against them?

May be worth a quick Google.

 

[Flankerl]

No people like him genuinely never question this once.

USA bad is exactly where the train of thought stops.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Is that all you have? False flag and propaganda?

Wait, what??

How did I miss this??

You're claiming that North Korea assisting Russia is a "false flag operation"??

The level of delusion some people have is astounding.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No people like him genuinely never question this once.

USA bad is exactly where the train of thought stops.

Now now, be fair. They answer questions all the time. I remember receiving the following answers:

Do you believe sovereign territories should have the right to seek aid and alliances to defend themselves against foreign military aggressors?
"America bad."

Do you believe powerful nations should have the right to determine what treaties and alliances smaller neighbouring nations should be allowed to join, at threat of military force?
"'Merica bad."

Do you believe Russia breaking multiple treaties, agreements and international laws it not only agreed to and signed but, in some cases, co-authored, should result in any kind of legal or punitive consequences for Russia, or should be rewarded?
"'Mrca bd."

Lots of answers!

 

[Godobeyer]

Have you considered WHY Russia is regarded as a threat to Europe and WHY countries are eager to join NATO and have military support against them?

May be worth a quick Google.

Google?
Why should i used Western source to get information about their oppose regimes,Russia or Iran..Etc ?

I think West which threaten to Russia. Not inverse.

USA supported Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan to defeat Russia.

Where the last time, Russia support a country to defeat USA?

 

[Estro Felino]

Google?
Why should i used Western source to get information about their oppose regimes,Russia or Iran..Etc ?

I think West which threaten to Russia. Not inverse.

USA supported Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan to defeat Russia.

Where the last time, Russia support a country to defeat USA?

Because Iran didn't bow to the banking cabal that wants to subdue it.
Easy as that.
And they hate Russians because Putin backs Iran and Syria.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Google?
Why should i used Western source to get information about their oppose regime,Russia or Iran..Etc ?

Because you're an intelligent, sentient mammal capable of distinguishing between propaganda and facts, and only an abject fool would claim that literally all sources an internet search engine brings up would exclusively be one or the other.

I think West which threaten to Russia. Not inverse.

How many times has Russia been invaded in the past thirty years?

How many countries has Russia invaded in the past thirty years?

USA supported Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan to defeat Russia.

They sure did. How does that justify Russia invading Ukraine?

Where the last time, Russia support a country to defeat USA?

When was the last time any country invaded Russia?

 

[Godobeyer]

Because you're an intelligent, sentient mammal capable of distinguishing between propaganda and facts, and only an abject fool would claim that literally all sources an internet search engine brings up would exclusively be one or the other.

All have agendes., the main agenda of the West was destruction soviet union, now it's Russia and N korea and Iran.

How many times has Russia been invaded in the past thirty years?

How many countries has Russia invaded in the past thirty years?


They sure did. How does that justify Russia invading Ukraine?

Nothing justify invade other nation.
But put blame on motivations always.
Without threaten to Russia, no would be invasion of Ukraine now.

When was the last time any country invaded Russia?

Most allies of Russia invaded or sanctioned.
Besides Ukraine, since ww2 Russia didn't involved in any war direct or indirect against the West,but the west who always did.
Besides

 

[ImmortalFlame]

All have agendes., the main agenda of the West was destruction soviet union, now it's Russia and N korea and Iran.

Then I guess you have a choice: either trust literally nothing and assume you can't know anything or make any educated assessment of anything beyond your immediate scope of influence, or you can take the plunge and decipher fact from fiction yourself on the assumption that at least some of what you read will be fact.

Your choice.

Nothing justify invade other nation.

Good, I am glad we agree that Russia is in the wrong, then.

But put blame on motivations always.
Without threaten to Russia, no would be invasion of Ukraine now.

There was no threat to Russia. No country has threatened Russia militarily, and no country has attempted to invade Russia. Russia has invaded multiple neighbouring countries.

Most allies of Russia invaded or sanctioned.

That's not an answer to my question.

Could you attempt an answer to my question?

Besides Ukraine, since ww2 Russia didn't involved in any war direct or indirect against the West,

They've been meddling with, annexing and invading neighbouring territory for the past 30 years.

Do you believe those states have no rights to repel a Russian invasion or to seek protection against it?

but the west who always did.

"The West" have not invaded Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine.

Why are you repeating propaganda? I thought you didn't believe in that?

 

[Debater Slayer]

Install missiles USA all borders towards Russia.

Call all neighbors of Russia to join NATO.

Russia has a long history of invading and occupying or subjugating other countries (especially neighboring ones), or attempting to do so and failing. It has previously done that to Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Poland, Ukraine, and Finland, among others. Years before this latest Russo-Ukrainian war, most of Russia's European neighbors had already joined NATO to protect themselves from a repeat of the USSR's imperialism and occupation. Russia's neighbors are much smaller and don't have nukes, which makes them even more vulnerable to military threats from it.

One fact about modern missiles is that many of them can easily reach Russia even if they're installed far away from its borders. Russia also possesses ICBMs that can reach the US even if fired from Russian territory. Russia, due to its massive nuclear arsenal, was not at risk of being invaded by NATO, which had already been at its borders long before the current war. Putin just used "denazification" and "protecting Russia" as excuses to invade and occupy Ukraine like Russia did in the days of the USSR.

The US has its own history of military aggression, of course, but this doesn't mean everything it does is unjustified: in this case, its aid to Ukraine is allowing Ukraine to defend its sovereignty from an invader and aspiring occupier. I think that's a positive outcome regardless of what one thinks the motives of the US may be in aiding Ukraine.

 

[Stevicus]

It never ceases to amaze me how these Putin shills will swallow up anything Russian propaganda tells them, while they will pretend scepticism about actual factual reporting.

If there are any shills around here, I don't think they work for Putin.

 

[muhammad_isa]

If you want to argue that they are right for invading, please go ahead and make your argument as to why imperialism is good..

I'm not in favor of either Russia or the West. You need to understand the history. In the days of the
British Empire, the British "ruled the waves", and made it their business to interfere in political
affairs all around the globe. US took over this role since WWII, and I am now sick of it.

I do not believe that the West has much moral credibility left.

America are on the wrong side of the war on Gaza, by assisting the (current) aggressors and war criminals with arms and making few concessions to the concerns of the civilians in Gaza.
America are on the right side of the war in Ukraine, by assisting the country that is the victim of aggression and war crimes and showing a general concern for the civilians of Ukraine.

I used to think along those lines, but I no longer trust the motives of the West. I do not believe
the narrative that the West supports Ukraine due to it being a democratic nation that has been the
victim of unprovoked Russian attack.
The thing about the West, is that it supports whom it chooses, and sanctions whom it chooses.
It is often hypocritical in this regards, whether they realize it or not.

No .. billions of dollars have been awarded to BOTH conflicts .. by the same administration .. it
is no coincidence that Zelensky supports the "war in Gaza".
There are two basic alliances in play here .. the West (G7) .. and BRICS.

You are the one being morally inconsistent, here. You are the one arguing against the territorial integrity and rights of one group while in favour of the territorial integrity and rights of the other..

I'm not in favor of Capitalism or Communism .. Russia or US.
I say what I see .. I want to see peace, and not war.
The continual supply of weapons by US is only making matters worse.

That is not to say that I think the US should not be involved in global affairs, but right now it
is not looking morally justified .. it should put its own house in order.
The political institutions have been compromised .. wealth in the hands of a few.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I'm not in favor of either Russia or the West. You need to understand the history. In the days of the
British Empire, the British "ruled the waves", and made it their business to interfere in political
affairs all around the globe. US took over this role since WWII, and I am now sick of it.

Cool. You're anti-imperialism.

So, now that we agree on this, what seems to be the issue here? Because it seems obvious to me that the anti-imperialist position to take on this war is that what Russia's doing (imperialism) is bad, and what the USA is doing (assisting an independent state who is being invaded by an imperialist) is good.

Do you have some alternative take that flips this moral reality on its head? Or do you believe that because the UK and USA have engaged in imperialism, it somehow has relevance to whether or not Ukraine ought to be defended against an imperialist now?

I do not believe that the West has much moral credibility left.

I don't care about "moral credibility". I care about people and states being victims of imperialism. Nobody is claiming "the West" is engaged in defending Ukraine for purely moral reasons. But that doesn't make it the wrong move either politically or morally.

I used to think along those lines, but I no longer trust the motives of the West.

Motives are secondary, effects of actions are primary. I don't believe America and the UK would be involved in Ukraine if it weren't in their geopolitical interest. But I care far more about the interests and needs of Ukrainian citizens right now than whether or not helping those people might provide some tangential geopolitical benefit to the people who aid them.

I do not believe
the narrative that the West supports Ukraine due to it being a democratic nation that has been the
victim of unprovoked Russian attack.

Then you're a victim of propaganda, no different to people who say that Israeli war crimes in Gaza are "Israeli self-defence".

The thing about the West, is that it supports whom it chooses, and sanctions whom it chooses.
It is often hypocritical in this regards, whether they realize it or not.

So, in this case, should Ukraine simply die or be subsumed into Russia because you have some moral issue with the fact that it is currently being supported by nations with, at best, spotty geopolitical records?

I don't care about this purity testing. I care about people being killed and nations being invaded.

No .. billions of dollars have been awarded to BOTH conflicts .. by the same administration .. it
is no coincidence that Zelensky supports the "war in Gaza".
There are two basic alliances in play here .. the West (G7) .. and BRICS.

Again, stop extrapolating. Focus on Ukraine. Is the funding for Ukraine justified or not?

As for Zelenskyy supporting the "war in Gaza":

Zelenskyy: Ukraine is ready to help Gaza

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy told the Shangri-La Dialogue conference in Singapore that humanitarian law must be respected in Gaza and Israel's war on the Strip needs to end, adding that...

www.middleeastmonitor.com

Zelensky hits at Israel as Saudi 'boycotts' Ukraine conference

Ukraine's President Zelensky has been viewed as a supporter of Israel throughout the Gaza war, although there has been a change in his discourse.

www.newarab.com

I'm not in favor of Capitalism or Communism .. Russia or US.
I say what I see .. I want to see peace, and not war.
The continual supply of weapons by US is only making matters worse.

Then what is your alternative? Do you believe USA and UK shouldn't honour their agreement with Ukraine to assist against invasion, and Ukraine should just be taken over by Russia? Is that a reasonable response to military imperialism? To just let it happen?

Do you somehow think this is an anti-war position?

That is not to say that I think the US should not be involved in global affairs, but right now it
is not looking morally justified .. it should put its own house in order.

Again, so do you believe that because the USA doesn't live up to your personal moral standards, Ukraine should just suffer and die when it is attacked by a belligerent, imperialist state?

The political institutions have been compromised .. wealth in the hands of a few.

Stop abstracting. I want to talk about Ukraine.

 

[Subduction Zone]

If the EU supports this nuclear war, the peoples will rise up and march on Brussels, forcing the entire EU institutions to resign.

It will be the undoing of this warlike banking dictatorship.

You have your cause and effect backwards again. It is Russia that is making nuclear threats, not the other way around. So are you now claiming that the peoples will rise up and march on Moscow?

 

[PureX]

Thanks to our electing Trump, and Trump wanting to hand Ukraine over to Putin, the current administration and our allies are considering giving Ukraine weapon system that Russia cannot defend against (before Trump can sell Ukraine out). This, of course, has Putin very nerveous, and with no way of countering it except the threat of nuclear war. So now he is threatening nuclear war.

Why does humanity keep allowing one or two self-obsessed idiots destroy the lives of millions? I really just don't get it. Is our genetic drive to 'follow the leader' really that difficult for us to resist?

 

[Estro Felino]

You have your cause and effect backwards again. It is Russia that is making nuclear threats, not the other way around. So are you now claiming that the peoples will rise up and march on Moscow?

I am speaking of the EU.
I don't live in Russia, I live in the EU.

Do you really care about Europe?

 

[Godobeyer]

Russia has a long history of invading and occupying or subjugating other countries (especially neighboring ones), or attempting to do so and failing. It has previously done that to Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Georgia, Hungary, Poland, Ukraine, and Finland, among others. Years before this latest Russo-Ukrainian war, most of Russia's European neighbors had already joined NATO to protect themselves from a repeat of the USSR's imperialism and occupation. Russia's neighbors are much smaller and don't have nukes, which makes them even more vulnerable to military threats from it.

One fact about modern missiles is that many of them can easily reach Russia even if they're installed far away from its borders. Russia also possesses ICBMs that can reach the US even if fired from Russian territory. Russia, due to its massive nuclear arsenal, was not at risk of being invaded by NATO, which had already been at its borders long before the current war. Putin just used "denazification" and "protecting Russia" as excuses to invade and occupy Ukraine like Russia did in the days of the USSR.

The US has its own history of military aggression, of course, but this doesn't mean everything it does is unjustified: in this case, its aid to Ukraine is allowing Ukraine to defend its sovereignty from an invader and aspiring occupier. I think that's a positive outcome regardless of what one thinks the motives of the US may be in aiding Ukraine.

Ukraine was part of Soviet union, it's very important to both sides, and world economy.

So it's was required to Ukraine to be neutral.

I think Russia wasn't a threaten to West, until West provoke.

I don't think USA accept that Mexico to be an allie to Russia.
Sure USA would invade Mexico.

 

[muhammad_isa]

The Cuban crisis wasn't about a defense shield in Cuba. It was about actual nuke missiles actually pointed at the US.

It boils down to the same thing .. US does NOT accept Russian military bases anywhere near its
territory.