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Russian chest thumping - Chinese incursions

ImmortalFlame

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
lukethethird said:
So there was no 7 year civil war leading up to this invasion, 14,000 Russian speaking Ukrainians were not killed after all, is that what you mean?.
Click to expand...
Since you failed to provide sources for this claim, I did a little independent digging of my own and found out - to my lack of surprise - that it's just more narrativising.

See, you claimed Ukraine was engaged in persecuting (you specifically said "torture" and "rape", I believe) it's Russian-speaking population in the Donbas, and you produced the above claim (14,000 Russian-speaking Ukrainians killed) and not much else.

Well, I did the search for this number specifically in relation to Ukraine and discovered it is the total number of casualties of the war in the Donbas, including Ukrainian soldiers, Russian soldiers and civilians (something I predicted it could have been earlier). It is widely reported that Putin used this figure without stating these facts, implying that it was some sort of ethnic genocide committed by the Ukrainian government against people in the Donbas, rather than the total number of casualties ON BOTH SIDES attributed to a war PROPAGATED AND INSTIGATED BY RUSSIA. Curious that you neglected to mention this.

SOURCES: https://iran.mfa.gov.ua/fa/news/fake-ukraine-committed-genocide-against-donbas-inhabitants
Did Ukraine kill 14,000 pro-Russians and civilians in Donbass? | MercatorNet
https://www.crisisgroup.org/content/conflict-ukraines-donbas-visual-explainer
https://www.npr.org/2022/03/11/1085...ers-were-being-killed-in-ukraine-is-that-true
https://tass.com/world/1289095

I am going to ask you now, and I would very much like an honest answer: Are you Putin?
 
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Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
lukethethird said:
Ukraine is not the prize, Ukraine is merely the battle ground and Ukrainians are the pawns, it's their blood, they are being used. This is a proxy war between the US and Russia, the US wants Putin out so that they can put a yes man to Washington back in place, like Boris Yeltsin was. All in the name of freedom and democracy.

Ukraine is done, Zelensky has sold every public utility to foreign private investors, he has outlawed political opposition parties, made himself and all his cronies rich, if it was crap before, every Ukrainian is way worse off now.
Click to expand...
You have it all wrong.
I already posted the truth.
To repeat...
Russian men & women have been losing the ability
to reproduce. So Russia's population has been falling.
So the Putin Plan (the PP) is to create orphans in
Ukraine, kidnap them, re-educate them in Siberia,
& assimilate them as Russians.
 
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lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
ImmortalFlame said:
I just find it odd that you exclusively get your information either from Russian-state owned news sites or sites known for pro-authoritarian positions. I've already provided examples in this thread of your false reporting of factual events, so perhaps it's time to consider more "mainstream" news sources?

Also, very interesting that you call my government "authoritarian" because they block RT news.

Meanwhile, Russia censors the BBC, numerous European and Ukrainian state news sources, and a number of international news sources - including Meduza, who are the largest independent news source in Russia. They even block certain Wiki pages about the war and openly mark Wikipedia as being in violation of Russian law.

Those who live in glass houses... should probably censor any news that reports on that fact to prevent people from realizing they live in one.
Click to expand...

Russia censors and your government censors but you think you are on the side of good fighting evil and that this is about freedom and democracy, can you say propaganda machine?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
lukethethird said:
Russia censors and your government censors but you think you are on the side of good fighting evil and that this is about freedom and democracy, can you say propaganda machine?
Click to expand...
Do you believe that censorship
is equivalent in Russia vs USA?
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
Revoltingest said:
Do you believe that censorship
is equivalent in Russia vs USA?
Click to expand...

Censorship is censorship, I am just not naive enough to believe in a just war, that I am on the side of good fighting the forces of evil and all in the name of freedom and democracy. Both sides have to sit at the table at some point, it could have been done before the bloodshed, Ukraine's blood that is.

Seems no one cares about the overwhelming majority of Ukraines that voted Zelensky in, who ran on a platform of making ties with Russia and solving issues with the Russian speaking Ukraine's on Russia's border. Zelensky has done a 180 on his own people, maybe someone put a gun to his head, I don't know.
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
How do we know how much we are censored?
Revoltingest said:
That truism doesn't answer my question.
I'm inclined to infer from it that you mean
censorship is equal in both countries.
Is that it?
Click to expand...
I'm inferring that when your country censors it's for a worthy cause, unlike when they censor.
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
Revoltingest said:
The reader "infers".
The poster "intends".
Click to expand...

Whatever, I just don't buy into mainstream western media's narrative, censored as it is, that we are the good guys and that this conflict was unprovoked. I agree that Putin is a war criminal, and for doing what is routine for Washington and its forever wars campaign. It appears there are no good guys and bad guys in all of this, just a lot of war mongers on both sides, and voices that call for peace are sidelined.
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
Revoltingest said:
I suppose the allies weren't justified in WW2, eh.
Click to expand...
Do you realize that at the Nuremburg Trials there was a long list of atrocities that the Germans were guilty of but not tried for? Why? Because western allies were guilty of committing the same atrocities. How do we fight monsters without becoming monsters ourselves, it's an age old question.
 
ImmortalFlame

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
lukethethird said:
Russia censors and your government censors but you think you are on the side of good fighting evil and that this is about freedom and democracy, can you say propaganda machine?
Click to expand...
This is such weird logic.

"Oh, you think your country is good?? Well, it CENSORS this one thing! So, really they're just as bad as this other country that censors MANY things and started a war and forces it's citizens into armed conflict and openly spreads lies on a global scale."

Yeah. I think the anti-Russia side is the right side. If you disagree... then you're wrong. And also an apologist for imperialist violence and war crimes.
 
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ImmortalFlame

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
lukethethird said:
Do you realize that at the Nuremburg Trials there was a long list of atrocities that the Germans were guilty of but not tried for? Why? Because western allies were guilty of committing the same atrocities. How do we fight monsters without becoming monsters ourselves, it's an age old question.
Click to expand...
It sure is.

However, the question of wars started by imperialist aggressors is a fairly simple moral question.

I would also very much like for you to answer for the disinformation you have attempted to spread in this thread. Why did you claim Ukraine is responsible for the deaths of 14,000 Russian-speaking Ukrainians when, in reality, those 14,000 are the total casualties on both sides of the conflict in the Donbas that was started by Russia?

Seems a bit dishonest, if you ask me. Super odd that you, with your heightened "enlightened centrist" morality, would brazenly lie about the deaths of tens of thousands of people. But, that couldn't POSSIBLY be true, right?
 
lukethethird

lukethethird

unknown member
ImmortalFlame said:
It sure is.

However, the question of wars started by imperialist aggressors is a fairly simple moral question.

I would also very much like for you to answer for the disinformation you have attempted to spread in this thread. Why did you claim Ukraine is responsible for the deaths of 14,000 Russian-speaking Ukrainians when, in reality, those 14,000 are the total casualties on both sides of the conflict in the Donbas that was started by Russia?

Seems a bit dishonest, if you ask me. Super odd that you, with your heightened "enlightened centrist" morality, would brazenly lie about the deaths of tens of thousands of people. But, that couldn't POSSIBLY be true, right?
Click to expand...

How was it started by Russia?
 
Revoltingest

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
lukethethird said:
Do you realize that at the Nuremburg Trials there was a long list of atrocities that the Germans were guilty of but not tried for? Why? Because western allies were guilty of committing the same atrocities. How do we fight monsters without becoming monsters ourselves, it's an age old question.
Click to expand...
Would you have taken a neutral position in that war?
I prefer the lesser of 2 (or more) evils.
 
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