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sabbath

james2ko

Well-Known Member
You are talking about the Memorial of Christs death. The 'last supper' as it is called by some, was instituted by Christ at the last passover celebration that he enjoyed with his apostles. They continued to meet on the same night every year to celebrate the sacrifice Christ gave. That celebration is still carried on today on Nisan 14... we do it and probably some other christians do it. “The Christians of Asia Minor were called Quartodecimans [Fourteenthers] from their custom of celebrating the pascha [Lord’s Evening Meal] invariably on the 14th of Nisan . . . The date might fall on Friday or on any of the other days of the week.”—The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Volume IV, page 44.

8. I'm curious as to how the JW's came up with that specific date?

I guess that makes JW's quartodeciman too.

9. I suppose it does. But as I also mentioned in my reply, in accordance with Christ, Paul, John's and Polycarp's example, it also makes JW's sabbath breakers.

The law that sets you free is not the 10 commandments. It is the law of the Christ. Please look at how Paul explains it:Romans 8 Therefore those in union with Christ Jesus have no condemnation. 2 For the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus has set you free from the law of sin and of death Paul speaks of two laws here. The law of 'that spirit' and the law of 'sin and death'He says that in union with Christ, you've been set free from the law of 'sin and death' And what is the 'law of sin and death'??? 2 Corinthians 3:6 "who has indeed adequately qualified us to be ministers of a new covenant, not of a written code, but of spirit; for the written code condemns to death, but the spirit makes alive.

10. The context is the "ministration of death". It was Israel's civil administration for punishing violations of certain civil laws. The laws were not done away, but the Old Covenant administration and enforcement of the law--the death penalty--was set aside because the church does not have civil authority. Paul is is now telling us this is no longer necessary and goes on to explain why. It is that simple. It has nothing to do with the eliminating the 10 commandments. You guys sure know how to put a twist on things. ;)

James is speaking about the same thing as Paul...the law of freedom is the law of love as taught by Christ: James 1:25 But he who peers into the perfect law that belongs to freedom and who persists in [it], ...will be happy in his doing [it] It is called 'freedom' because it sets us free from the curse of the mosaic law...namely the highlighting of our sins and the condemnation to death because of them.

11. No he isn't. Paul was referring to the elimination of the "ministration of death" (2 Co 3:6) James refers to the ten commandments as he clearly indicates in Js 2:11-12..There's no way around it pegg. Read it, it is as clear as day...
Jas 2:11 For the same God who said, "You must not commit adultery," also said, "You must not murder." So if you murder someone but do not commit adultery, you have still broken the law.Jas 2:12 So whatever you say or whatever you do, remember that you will be judged by the law that sets you free
James clearly names 2 of the 10 commandments as an example. But the implication is clear, He refers to all ten!!!. Furthermore, the conjunctive adverb "so" , which is included in the Greek, links James 2:12 with the contents of vs 11. There's no way of somersaulting over it, pegg. The Law that sets us free is God's moral law--the big Ten!
I love the watchtower. They teach the scriptures with insight and truth.

12. I'm afraid you will not be smiling when you shockingly hear Christ utter , ".... 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice the law? ------No! you who practice lawlessness!(Mt 7:23 NKJV)
 
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Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
8. I'm curious as to how the JW's came up with that specific date?
The Passover was always observed on Nisan (Abib) 14. That was the night Jesus instituted the memorial when he passed around the bread and wine and said "keep doing this in remembrance of me"

Luke 22:13 So they departed and found it just as he had said to them, and they got the passover ready.
14 At length when the hour came, he reclined at the table, and the apostles with him. 15 And he said to them: “I have greatly desired to eat this passover with YOU before I suffer; ...19 Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.”
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
The Passover was always observed on Nisan (Abib) 14. That was the night Jesus instituted the memorial when he passed around the bread and wine and said "keep doing this in remembrance of me"

Luke 22:13 So they departed and found it just as he had said to them, and they got the passover ready.
14 At length when the hour came, he reclined at the table, and the apostles with him. 15 And he said to them: “I have greatly desired to eat this passover with YOU before I suffer; ...19 Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.”

I realize this but nowhere in these passages does it mention the 14th day of Nisan. How did the JW's come up with it?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
7. You continue to uphold the fallacy of an argument from silence. What you are implying here is that the congregants were ONLY required to follow these four points from the Mosaic law and nothing else. What about lying, stealing, murdering, breaking the sabbath, honoring your father and mother, etc..Are these not also an integral part of, what you reckon, is one Mosaic law? Your argument is beginning to show its true colors, pegg.

why didnt the jerusalem apostles create an entire list of laws at this point then? It was the perfect opportunity to do so considering the question of obedience to the mosaic law was brought up as an issue to them.

Why didnt they list the 10 commandments?

I have already given you a scriptural reason why they did not. I hope that one day will trust the scriptures enough to put mosaic laws aside and live by the kingly law of love. It is far superior. :) And with respect to our jewish members here, i say that in the sense that is better for a sinner to live without mosaic laws, then to live with them and break from time to time. ( i hope that makes sense ) The mosaic law code is perfect...absolutely... but we are not and because of that, we are not worthy of them.
 
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Rakhel

Well-Known Member
The Passover was always observed on Nisan (Abib) 14. That was the night Jesus instituted the memorial when he passed around the bread and wine and said "keep doing this in remembrance of me"

Luke 22:13 So they departed and found it just as he had said to them, and they got the passover ready.
14 At length when the hour came, he reclined at the table, and the apostles with him. 15 And he said to them: “I have greatly desired to eat this passover with YOU before I suffer; ...19 Also, he took a loaf, gave thanks, broke it, and gave it to them, saying: “This means my body which is to be given in YOUR behalf. Keep doing this in remembrance of me.”
In other words, James, the Gregorian calendar didn't exist. And Jews being Jews followed the Hebrew calendar.

This year, according to the Gregorian calendar, passover fell on Monday April, 18. Next year it will start Friday, April 6. The year after that March 25, which happens to be a Monday. All of these days when lined up to the Hebrew calendar is 14 Nissan.
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
why didnt the jerusalem apostles create an entire list of laws at this point then? It was the perfect opportunity to do so considering the question of obedience to the mosaic law was brought up as an issue to them.

Why didnt they list the 10 commandments?

For the same reason Paul didn't name specific foods in 1 Tim 4:4-6. It was obvious they had to abide by the dietary laws just as the big ten were obvious in acts 15... BTW..

I have already given you a scriptural reason why they did not.

And it was utterly refuted. Got any others :)

I hope that one day will trust the scriptures enough to put mosaic laws aside and live by the kingly law of love. It is far superior. :)

You are going to be very disappointed....
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
For the same reason Paul didn't name specific foods in 1 Tim 4:4-6. It was obvious they had to abide by the dietary laws just as the big ten were obvious in acts 15... BTW..

And it was utterly refuted. Got any others :)

You are going to be very disappointed....

you can refute the words of the apostles all you like...but they were the ones given holy spirit to proclaim such truths. Their words will never be refuted ...you can object to them, you can refuse to accept their word...but their words will never be refuted because their words were inspired by Gods holy spirit and are the authority. Just as Moses words were the authority when it came to law.


But i'd like to know why you dont become a jew and follow the law as they do?
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
you can refute the words of the apostles all you like...but they were the ones given holy spirit to proclaim such truths. Their words will never be refuted ...you can object to them, you can refuse to accept their word...but their words will never be refuted because their words were inspired by Gods holy spirit and are the authority. Just as Moses words were the authority when it came to law.

But i'd like to know why you dont become a jew and follow the law as they do?

For the same reasons you will not become a Catholic or Protestant.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
But isn't the Passover also listed in Lev 23:5, along with the other Feasts of the LORD [not the Jews] that ought to be kept forever?

Lev 23: 5 In the first month(Nisan), on the fourteenth day of the month, between the two evenings is the passover to Jehovah.

The passover only began as a celebration on the night they were leaving egypt...there was no passover prior to this time.
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
Lev 23: 5 In the first month(Nisan), on the fourteenth day of the month, between the two evenings is the passover to Jehovah.

The passover only began as a celebration on the night they were leaving egypt...there was no passover prior to this time.

Im not talking about the past, I'm referring to the Feasts of the LORD, which includes the Passover, given in Lev 23 that are to be celebrated forever in the future.
 

tumbleweed41

Resident Liberal Hippie
I answered this in the thread.
No, you only addressed a handful.

And in reading those responses, I found it amusing that you apply a very liberal apologetics to explain why you as a Christian are exempt from those commandments, yet argue with literalistic dogma what you feel must be followed.
An interesting self inflicted dichotomy of personal beliefs.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Im not talking about the past, I'm referring to the Feasts of the LORD, which includes the Passover, given in Lev 23 that are to be celebrated forever in the future.

sorry your question has gone over my head... what are you asking about it?
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
No, you only addressed a handful. And in reading those responses, I found it amusing that you apply a very liberal apologetics to explain why you as a Christian are exempt from those commandments, yet argue with literalistic dogma what you feel must be followed. An interesting self inflicted dichotomy of personal beliefs.

I'm glad I could be of "amusing" service....:)
 
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